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Possible Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation upgrade - Maou Gakuin

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　It's a memory of a distant, distant beginning--
　It was the primordial and repeated creation of this world for the hundred millionth time.

　The silver-haired girl opens her eyelids.

　The first thing that appears in her vision is a sky dyed pure white.
　There was no top or bottom, no left or right, and as far as the eye could see, white continued to be everywhere.

"Good morning."

　A voice rang out.

"Good morning. The Last Child."

　The silver-haired girl blinks with a snap.
　She looks around, but the owner of the voice is nowhere to be found.

''Even if you look for it, it's gone. I have already been destroyed. This is the voice I created to tell you something important."
Click to expand...

"Elenesia, the god of creation, created the world. The world was full of green, rich and beautiful. It was a world of green, rich and beautiful. In order to stabilize the world, order must be maintained, especially if destruction and creation are not equal. In particular, if destruction and creation are not equal, the world will not circulate and its source will be out of the frame"
Click to expand...

"This world is going to perish here as it is. You are my creator god with new powers, create a new world from scratch with your power. Throw away the old beginning and take a new beginning into your hands. Please, please--"
Click to expand...

All of the above statements are from WN Chapter 421.
 
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Like a bubble popping, the Bubble World disappears.
"The bubbles of that ocean would disappear if left alone like this, hence the name bubbles."
Lots of bubbles appear again, building a bubble world.

- WN Chapter 502
Click to expand...
This is what is meant by "recreating the world". The God of Creation uses her power, the Order of Creation and the divine order that utilises that order, to create a new bubble world (bubble universe).
 
Eventually, behind the pure white world, a desolate land appeared.

Devastated towns and villages, drowned seas, dead forests, crumbled mountains.

The end of the world with no sign of living things was struck in front of the girl.

"This is the end of the world of Elenesia"
Click to expand...

The silver-haired girl raises her hands.

Then the moon rose in the wilderness.

"I'm sure it will create a gentle world."

A shadow casts on the silver full moon.

The <Lunar eclipse of the origin> begins, and the red and silver light gently dyes the world.

"Your feelings that have been connected to this day are connected to me. I am kind so that everyone can sleep peacefully, saying that it was not only sad, but that it was connected to this happy ending. Because it creates the world "

There was a sound of the earth.

Gentle, warm, and distantly transmitted-it was the fetal movement of the world.

Red silver Illuminated by the light of, the wilderness begins to fill with greenery.

The world was about to be recreated.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this isn't Type 1. If there was only that White Void and it was clearly said that it was all the was left and there was no World, then that would've been Type 1.
 
Everything12 said:
Yeah, this isn't Type 1. If there was only that White Void and it was clearly said that it was all the was left and there was no World, then that would've been Type 1.
Click to expand...
That was an illusion which the God of Creation's mother showed her as a lesson to not let the new world end up the same way.
 
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Everything12 said:
Yeah, this isn't Type 1. If there was only that White Void and it was clearly said that it was all the was left and there was no World, then that would've been Type 1.
Click to expand...
Are we forgetting that this thread was based and focused on Nousgalia's order to qualify for type 1?
imZer0Null said:
Bruh. That was a vision which the God of Creation's mother showed her as a lesson to not let the new world end up the same way...
Click to expand...
 
Everything12 said:
I'm not seeing anything in that chapter that says that.
Click to expand...

"Even if you look for it, it's gone. I have already been destroyed. This is the voice I created to tell you something important.

"...who are you...?

　When the girl asked, a gentle voice immediately replied.

'I am the creator god of your previous generation. My name is Elenesia. I am the mother of you and your sister.''

'....sister...?

　The silver-haired girl turns her gaze to her back.
　Gently, she stretched out her hand behind her back, but all that was there was just the sky.

　It must have felt like someone was there. But it was an illusion, and there was still nothing behind her.

　Still, she made a gesture as if she were holding someone's hand.

'I don't have enough of a voice left behind to tell you everything. My sweet child, you have my failure. I must tell you of the end of the world in Elesia.'
Click to expand...

It's pretty obvious her already destroyed mother just showed her an illusion.

Did you also not see my post about how the bubble world pops and then a new bubble world is built?
 
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That only says the feeling of the previous Goddess was an illusion, not the wasteland, and the bubble popping does not say anything about the Order of Creation or Order of Orders predating the bubble. Based on what I've read about the Silver Sea, I very much doubt either of them existed before the bubble.
 
Everything12 said:
That only says the feeling of the previous Goddess was an illusion, not the wasteland, and the bubble popping does not say anything about the Order of Creation or Order of Orders predating the bubble. Based on what I've read about the Silver Sea, I very much doubt either of them existed before the bubble.
Click to expand...
That's your interpretation then I guess.
It's pretty clear that the wasteland was an illusion of the end of the world created by the God of Creation's mother tho.
 
Everything12 said:
That only says the feeling of the previous Goddess was an illusion, not the wasteland, and the bubble popping does not say anything about the Order of Creation or Order of Orders predating the bubble.
Click to expand...
We aren't talking about Silver Sea bubbles here.
Everything12 said:
Based on what I've read about the Silver Sea, I very much doubt either of them existed before the bubble.
Click to expand...
If you have read the arc, then you should know about the working of Chief Gods and their worlds.
 
I haven't, I've only read snippets about the Silver Sea posted in threads. This is why I as an outside, as well as other staff, need you to be me more clear with your quotes.
 
Antvasima said:
Would any of you be willing to evaluate the following post please?
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing them being above reality to the point that it warrants a Tier 1 rating after looking at just the OP. Being the framework of a reality isn't enough for Type 1, it has to be beyond it by a far more notable degree.
 
"--Why don't we go back in time to the beginning? Then let us go back in time to the beginning, how did the original creator God come into being?"

　Sasha choked on her reply.
　Militia's mother, the previous creator god, Ehrenesia, spoke as Sasha had just answered.

　But there is no way to know how the first god - the original creator god - was born.

''Well we don't know... there's no way to know for sure...''

"Kakah, sure, sure. It's hard to find out. Then what hypothesis can you come up with?　Was God born first, or was the world born first?"

　Sasha opens her mouth as she puts a hand to her head.

"If anything, I think it's God..."

Why?

"Because if there's no order in the world in the first place, the world will collapse. It just can't be expected to last until God comes into being."

　Without order, the world will perish.
　It is obvious that the world cannot last long without God.
Click to expand...

Eldemade, the "new HFG", also uses the same logic we use in this thread.


Gods and order MUST exist before the world, and the HFG and his order must exist even before that, so it definitely predates the world.
 
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Qawsedf234 said:
That's not a qualifier for Type 1; at best its just supporting evidence .
Click to expand...
That's not the only reason it's possibly type 1 tho.
All other order in the world is dependent on the HFG's order. Altering or destroying the HFG's order either alters or destroys all other order.
The HGF's order is independent of other order.
The HFG's order predates all other order and the world.
That's somewhat the reason why the HFG's order is possibly a type 1 concept.
 
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imZer0Null said:
All other order in the world is dependent on the HFG's order.
Altering or destroying the HFG's order either alters or destroys all other order.
The HGF's order is independent of other order.
The HFG's order predates all other order and the world.
Click to expand...
None of those are Type 1 reasonings. You'd need a direct statement that the destruction of reality would leave the concept unchanged or not effected. A quote isn't in your OP that backs that idea from what I see.
 
imZer0Null said:
Which chapter is this from btw?
Click to expand...
I forgot but it's the chapter where the
sound orded is mentioned
Qawsedf234 said:
That's not a qualifier for Type 1; at best its just supporting evidence .
Click to expand...
Sorry before that, but do you have a point to disagree why this is not type 1?

Since it's already meet the requirement for being type 1

1.Govern the reality
2.Predates the reality
3.exist after the reality destroyed

And just want to give the example

this crt get Accepted with the reason that is not more detailed than maou Gakuin order
 
RamadhanDayYet said:
Since it's already meet the requirement for being type 1

1.Govern the reality
2.Predates the reality
3.exist after the reality destroyed
Click to expand...
Point 3 would be the only one that would back it being Type 1 and I didn't see that point in the opening post.
 
Everything12 said:
This seems similar to the Slime Tensei Type 1 Concept thread that has been accepted by Yuri, so I guess I agree with this one as well. The Order of Creation looks like it's Type 1 one from that quote.
Click to expand...
Yeah, someone there from Sysop clearly told:-

Currently, there are two significant ways to prove a concept is independent of reality; one is if a concept predates reality or the other is that the concept is fine even if reality or all its associations are warped or destroyed.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Point 3 would be the only one that would back it being Type 1 and I didn't see that point in the opening post.
Click to expand...
This has been discussed before, the HGF is not affected by the destruction of either the order or the reality

And isn't elizha said that the point 2 can also be the main suportting to be independent concept?

Predating or Exist after destruction is somewhat can be equated as the same point as long there's no contradiction
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Point 3 would be the only one that would back it being Type 1 and I didn't see that point in the opening post.
Click to expand...
Huh, why not? The order of order governs all orders, this includes the order of creation which created the world and reality (predates reality), and even if all orders are destroyed along with reality, this would not affect the order of order, since it is completely independent of everything it governs.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I have a stricter view point on Type 1 it seems. If GoW's flimsy reasoning is enough for Type 1, then yes, Order of Order would also be Type 1.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about the reasoning of whether GoW got Cm1 for flimsy arguments, I'm asking about the 3 points you said, since the order of the order qualifies them perfectly
1.Govern the reality
2.Predates the reality
3.exist after the reality destroyed
Click to expand...
Dereck03 said:
The order of order governs all orders, this includes the order of creation which created the world and reality (predates reality), and even if all orders are destroyed along with reality, this would not affect the order of order, since it is completely independent of everything it governs.
Click to expand...
 
The order of order governs all orders
Click to expand...
Being a higher form of concept doesn't give you Type 1
this includes the order of creation which created the world and reality (predates reality)
Click to expand...
In my view predating reality doesn't mean much. But seemingly that is a legitimate justification for the rating. So that would be good enough for a Type 1 argument
even if all orders are destroyed along with reality, this would not affect the order of order, since it is completely independent of everything it governs.
Click to expand...
No scans were given of this claim in the OP that I saw.
 
So we are pretty much just waiting for Yuri to come and confirm if the predation quote is enough for Type 1 Order of Creation then.
 
InfiniteCosmology said:
It seems you haven't read the scan and the chapter.
Its simple, Nousgalia gives birth to type 2 concepts that are orders. Gods embody that order.

"And the existences that maintain and embody that order are the higher existences known as the gods."(Nousgalia)
[...]
The gods are not eternal either. They disappear according to the order and new ones are created and the one who produces them is the heavenly father Nousgalia.

But HFG embodies the order that gives birth to new orders.

“I am Nousgalia the heavenly father. The order that gives birth to the gods. The father of the gods.” (Nousgalia)
Destroying any order will simply cause the world to destroy, while disrupting it will limit the destruction of the world and will disturb the natural law.
“All things without exception must eventually lead to destruction, however, because the demon king stole that order the destruction of the world has been limited. Those that should have died did not die, those that should have brought about ruin did not and thus was the natural law disturbed. Other gods stepped in to compensate for it but the order was not completely restored. The result is what we have now 2000 years later.” (Nousgalia)

VENUZDONOA DESTROYING NOUSGALIA
The guy being pierced by Venuzdonoa stares at me in amazement.

“…..Haha….. What thoughtless behaviour. That’s enough threatening me. Any more and you really will endanger the world.” (Nousgalia)

“That’s true.” (Arnos)

I increase my strength and push Venuzdonoa in even deeper.

“Guu….ha…..”

Blood overflows from the god’s lips.

“……Stop demon king of tyranny. God’s command is absolute…..” (Nousgalia)

“I take orders from nobody. Not even the gods.” (Arnos)

I put magic power into the sword and pierce his origin.

“…..What a thoughtless….man. Are you going….to destroy….the world….?” (Nousgalia)

“The thoughtless one is you.” (Arnos)

“….Gu…fuuu….!”

Venuzdonoa shines darkly and Nousgalia is further destroyed.

“You…can’t…to a god. Destroying me who is the heavenly father…. demon king of tyranny. The order set by god…… the world is destroyed because of you…..” (Nousgalia)

I pull Venuzdonoa out of Nousgalia and for a moment that fellows body is covered in darkness.

“Get lost in the darkness of destruction and disappear.” (Arnos)

The darkness burst and he disappeared from the spot.

“Did you think I’d overlook you if you used the world as a shield?” (Arnos)

PROOF THAT NOUSGALIA'S ORDER IS A TYPE 1 CONCEPT
..If the heavenly father is destroyed then the world’s order will be disrupted and eventually the world will be destroyed.
[...]
Don’t worry. The world would be destroyed if you couldn’t carry out your order so I made so you can just about restore order and do your duty.” (Arnos)
[..]
"….When did you learn to completely control the power of the god of destruction….?” (Nousgalia)

“2000 years ago I could only destroy with it but now in these peaceful times I was able to overcome that weakness.” (Arnos)

----IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT NOUSGALIA WAS UNAFFECTED BY THE LOSS OF THE ORDER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION THAT ABERNEYU EMBODIED AND SO DESTRUCTION OF THE MILTIA WORLD.
Click to expand...
This One.
 
It would be best to wait for Yuri' opinion or any other staff knowledgeable about Cm about the order of creation, so please stop showing more scans that may lead to more discussion and confusion.
 
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