Possible Mind and Soul resistance for Dovahkiin

[Self_Love]

Hello and happy new year!

I was reading through forums and came across some interesting information that gives the Dragonborn some impressive feats.

I will first talk about his soul resistance and the mind resistance will follow.

The Dragonborn's soul is not "normal" by any means, he has the the soul of a dragon, and as such only Akatosh/dragons can claim/absorb it. Not even Daedric Princes can harm/steal/absorb it. This is backed up by this link stating that a dragon withstood physical and physiological torture from Molag Bal himself and kept his will. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra_Dossier:_The_Titans

This reveals two things.

1. Molag Bal who eats souls for breakfast could not harm/take the dragon's soul. He had no reason not to as he wanted to know the secrets of dragons.

2. Dragons possess incredible will power to resist such deities.

This would definitely scale to other dragons and especially the Dragonborn. The next two feats correlate with a dragon's strong will.

I will start with Neloth's quote on Hermaeus Mora.

"What happened? What did you see? Different people have very different experiences when reading these books."

"You're still acting surprisingly sane, too. What did he have to say? He must have wanted something from you."

Link http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Dragonborn:Neloth

Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz62gGGqEOs 15:59

Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnSjZF2y89Q

Dovahkiin has also had interactions with Sheogorath. Normally mortals would go insane by just being near his realm.

This link demonstrates that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibiTpZHpEqA 1:38

Only truly mad people are residents of his realm. No sane person is meant to be around or live there.

This link shows Sheogorath talking to Pelagius, who was the mad Emperor of Tamriel in the third era. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7dbM_XH7pc 3:32

 

[SITHISIT]

for the last part; DV was inside Pelagius's mind, so that's false.


anyways... im gonna regret this but....


everything seems fine. Go ahead....

 

[Shazam121]

The Molag Bal stuff is okay I suppose. But keep in mind that there doesn't seem to be anything impressive about the Daedric Prince's telepathy or soul manipulation abilities, so resisting their efforts is possibly not all that hard.

The Sheogorath stuff seems a stretch seeing as a lot of the TES characters have interacted with Sheogorath with no I'll effect. Also, is there anything to suggest that Sheo can just drive anyone mad at will? I don't think he's ever displayed such an ability; his power seems quite subtle and dare I say weak.

 

[Self_Love]

The Molag Bal stuff is what drove me to make this thread.

Regarding Sheogorath, i would assume since he's the "Daedric Prince of Madness" he could. We know the people who attempt to enter his realm turn insane, his residents are mad, and there's the mad women in Skyrim...

Immortals get bored and need a way to entertain themselves, so i don't think he would just drive everybody he meets insane even though he could.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

^ I agree with these. I could probably find some more resistances, but I'm lazy at the moment.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that "Resistance to Soul Manipulation and Mind Manipulation" seems reasonable, but it is best to ask Sheoth to comment here as well.

 

[Self_Love]

Yeah. I'm waiting for his response

 

[Sheoth]

The resistance to soul manipulation seems solid, and I suppose the mind manipulation resistance doesn't seem bad either. I agree with these.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with this.

 

[Shazam121]

Any additions should be phrased clearly.

Since Bal does not have much in the way of Soul Manipulation feats, the LDB's resistance should be written something like this:

'Probably has some degree of resistance to (certain forms of) soul manipulation.'

Now I think the Sheogorath stuff is unusable: nothing here suggests that Sheo was attempting to, or is even capable of, drive the LDB insane. But the LDB may still qualify for resistance to mind manipulation due to being unaffected by the Black Books from the Dragonborn expansion. But if this is added it should be phrased as such:

'Possibly has the ability to resist faint levels of mind (mental) manipulation.'

 

[Self_Love]

@Shazam121 The Daedra dossier is the main reason behind this thread and the other two feats are to show it correlates with it. Adding in the words " probably " is not necessary as i believe it's solid evidence. 1. We know only Akatosh/dragons can have his soul. 2. The harvester of souls, Molag Bal, could not harm/take the dragon's soul and he survived the physical and physiological torture of a multiversal being. 3. Dovahkiin and other dragons are resistant to Soul Trap. That takes care of the Soul resistance. The Mind resistance comes from the dossier and his interactions with other princes namely Hermaeus Mora

 

[Sheoth]

Any additions should be phrased clearly.
Since Bal does not have much in the way of Soul Manipulation feats, the LDB's resistance should be written something like this:

'Probably has some degree of resistance to (certain forms of) soul manipulation.'

I disagree. Molag Bal has the monopoly on Soul Manipulation in the Elder Scrolls franchise, and to say he doesn't have much in the way of feats is doing him a disservice. Given how he goes by monikers such as the "Harvester of Souls", has an artifact for the explicit purposes of soul collecting, and the simple fact that the Soul Shrive exist in countless numbers make it quite obvious that he is no slouch in the soul collecting department by any means.

However, I do agree that the Sheogorath and Hermaus Mora reasoning behind mind manipulation resistance is a little weak. But I also found this little dime, which I think does a better job showing that Molag Bal also posseses mind hax and can quite literally "steal peoples psyches".

 

[Shazam121]

Hmm well, this was bad of me. I'll admit that I did not bother to read OP's main source (Daedra Dossier: The Titans ) until now, mainly because I had heard of it before and had just taken people at their word. But upon reading the dossier I see that there is actually no mention of anything resembling soul manipulation. In fact, this is the only portion of the text that mentions any sort of hostile interaction between Bal and the Dragon:

"For our Lord and Master desired to know the secrets of the Dragons' dominance over the mortals of Nirn. Long was the Dragon tortured and interrogated. But the dragon was haughty, and indignant at his ' ill treatment', and no matter what torments were brought to bear, the intransigent Boziikkodstrun refused to utter so much as a single syllable in his abrasive language to reveal the secrets of the Dov."

Nothing to do with souls is ever mentioned, it's purely physical torture. The best you have is this super vague statement: "and no matter what torments were brought to bear" ... which is impossible to quantify and therefore worthless.

So yeah, I'm not so sure the LDB can be scaled to anything here.

Now @GreenF0rest123.

"We know only Akatosh/dragons can have his soul"

This could very well be correct, but I'm not aware of a source for it.

"The harvester of souls, Molag Bal, could not harm/take the dragon's soul"

I don't think titles have any place here, anyone can have an impressive sounding and often arbitrary title: titles aren't feats.

"he survived the physical and physiological torture of a multiversal being"

He did, but this isn't related to soul manipulation and it's not something you can scale to the LDB due to it being unquantifiable and also because the LDB does not have a dragon's physiology. And the TES 2-A ratings are quite dodgy as they are anyway; even if they are 2-A in scope (which is no sure thing) their power seems to be very passive.

"Dovahkiin and other dragons are resistant to Soul Trap"

Actually, I believe you can. But you need a powerful soul gem. For example, Azura can transport the LDB into her star and the souls of the Dragonborn emperors are contained in the Amulet of Kings.

"The Mind resistance comes from the dossier and his interactions with other princes namely Hermaeus Mora"

I think that's definitely possible, but we must remember that just because the LDB can resist the somewhat anemic effects of the Black Books does not mean that they are completely immune to mental attacks.

 

[Self_Love]

"but we must remember that just because the LDB can resist the somewhat anemic effects of the Black Books does not mean that they are completely immune to mental attacks. "

I'm talking about resistance not complete immunity.

 

[Shazam121]

Ah yeah, fair enough, was my bad. Though it's not all that impressive of a feat of resistance either.

 

[Self_Love]

It's your opinion, what can i say

 

[Self_Love]

Also i believe your confusing resistance with complete immunity. Nobody on this site has complete immunity to mind and soul manipulation unless they don't have a brain, soul, or if they're omnipotent.

Titles do have a place regarding Molag Bal, i don't know why you would dismiss that. Why else would he be called that? Molag Bal's purpose of the torture was to find out the secret of the dragon's dominance on Nirn, this proves he has a good amount of mind hax http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mind-Shrive, which he would of used, and since the dragon would resist that, Molag would resort to taking the dragon's soul.

The Amulet of Kings is related to Akatosh/The Divines so it proves my point.

Regarding Azura Star, Nelacar places you inside the Star without fully killing you, and this only proves a good amount of resistance

 

[Self_Love]

Anyways what's the final verdict

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

I totally support these additions

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you can make these addition to the page, but you should preferably provide explanations.

 

[Self_Love]

Ok. How do you want it set out?

Like this ----> Reistance to Soul Manipulation ( Explanation) or


Resistances

Soul Manipulato: Explanation

 

[Self_Love]

Well i guess it doesn't matter. I'll make the edits if your ready

 

[Antvasima]

The former version is fine. I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Self_Love]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. Should we close this thread then?

 

[Self_Love]

Yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.