Possible Kingdom Hearts Buff

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So I dunno if what I say is gonna be completely right, but....here we go.

Nobodies and the Royal Kni-I mean Organization Xlll
So based upon the craziness known as Kingdom Hearts, I think I found something interesting.

So apparently members of the Organization Xlll and Nobodies don't exactly have hearts....I think (the guys who really know KH can correct me. I'm a newbie myself)

Based upon how they treat "hearts" they seem more akin to souls. So due to them being soulless, should all Nobodies gain a natural Resistance to Soul Manipulation? I would say immunity, but as we know, there are characters who bypass those who lack souls' supposed immunity.

Axel Existence Erasure
So when Axel was about to let Vexen "off the hook", he said two things that caught my eye.





Based upon this, would it be correct to state that Axel can erase people from existence, i.e Existence Erasure? Maybe this will scale to the other Organization Xlll members?

 

[Axl233]

Only nobodies dont have hearts heartless in the other hand have hearts but those hearts are corrupted by the darkness and immunity to soul manipulation is already on KHverse main page about nobodies.


In the Ansem reports is said that nobodies are nonexistent soo that would not be existence erasure possibly none existent erasure?im also gonna try to find the quotes that explain how nobodies noneexistence works its gonna take some time.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That stuff should likely be on the files....

 

[RKGenki]

About the soul thing, it would apply to all nobodies (supposedly barring roxas and axel, as they likely grew a new heart by the end of 358/2 days, but I don't remember if it was explicitly stated).

Also, going by various statements and ansem's secret reports (the KH2 ones), nobodies are likely non-existent, and I would say that due to the statement coming from Ansem the Wise it should be pretty reliable.

About the existence erasure, I'm not 100% sure but it could be an extension of nobodies' control over lesser nobodies, tough Axel erasing Vexen contraddicts this a bit due to Vexen not being one of Axel's minions (obviously), since it's been stated that, unless you're Xemnas, you can only control your minions, dusks and the other weak one whose name I don't remember right now.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If they are nonexistent then that opens up a huge avenue for them.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I believe personally they were implied to be nonexistent... But i had insignificant evidence. Very nice upgrade.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I always figured Nobodies being nonexistent was more metaphorical to refer to them having no sense of identity.

From Ansem's Report 13:

Where does the body go when it separates from the heart? If the soul remains within the body, is it still considered to be deceased? When the heart returns to the Heartless, the physical form disappears. But that is merely true in this world. Perhaps the body exists in another form in another world. If that is the case, then it is possible for one to exist in two worlds. A being that is neither darkness nor light; belonging nowhere; abandoned by its heart; a mere shell of its former self. The relation between the heart and body is complex. However, I am certain that if your self exists here, then by definition, the other cannot truly "exist." The other, the one which does not exist, shall be dubbed, "Nobody."

 

[Axl233]

You know,im just discovered something funny.

Secret Ansem Report 06

My choice to befriend darkness here in the midst of nothingness was a sound one. The moment I stared straight ahead with a calm heart, neither rejecting darkness nor fearing it, I gained a newfound power.

A superhuman power - the power of darkness.

It is likely Xehanort and the others were enraptured by this power, eventually becoming its prisoners.

I do not intend to allow my heart to be devoured by the darkness as they did, of course.

With this new power, I uncovered a "Corridor of Darkness" that connects the realm of nothingness to the outside world. While it is still difficult to come and go as I please, my banishment is now a thing of the past.

To deceive Xehanort and my apprentices, I first used my power to change form before returning to the realm of light.

As I suspected, Xehanort had become a Heartless.

Under my name, he commanded other Heartless in quests to snatch away the hearts of many different worlds. At the center of the hearts Xehanort had stolen was "Kingdom Hearts," which attracts tremendous darkness to itself and attempts to send any and all matter back into its depths.

The other five have disappeared. Have they become heartless like Xehanort?

Or did they vanish after Xehanort exploited them?

I became familiar with an unusual "entity" while pursuing the truth.

*It is the soul and body that remain when a being loses its heart.*

When a Heartless is born, these entities disappear from the realm of light, to be reborn as entirely new beings in a completely different realm.


Secret Ansem Report 07

While beings born of darkness and those lacking hearts may find them convenient, it is dangerous for others to make much use of the corridors of darkness. Darkness erodes the heart.

In search of a place to proceed with my research and planning away from prying eyes, I found myself in "Twilight Town." It is a quiet village, forgotten in the chasm between light and darkness. I situated myself in the basement of an abandoned mansion standing beyond the woods.

My underground research resulted in one new discovery after another.

When a Heartless is born, the *body and soul* left behind are reborn into this world as a different being.

They possess different intentions than their Heartless brethren, and while it is unclear what these sentient "Things" are after, it would appear they are responsible for much bedlam in the world.

My erstwhile friend the King and his subjects, along with a hero wielding the keyblade, are battling the Heartless even as a new threat approaches. This new threat... they have given themselves a fitting name, I suppose.

These non-beings: "Nobodies."

aparentelly Hearts=/=Souls and Nobodies have souls and bodies but dont have hearts soo heartless would be the ones that dont have souls?

 

[Axl233]

and another one.

Secret Ansem Report 04

The distant days spent in that beautiful paradise are an illusion to me now. How long have I been here, banished into the realm of nothingness? It is only by relying upon my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here, where all existence is nullified.

My heart is being overcome with hatred towards my apprentices possessed by the darkness, and with the anger I feel for stupidly allowing myself to be betrayed.

Is this darkness eating away at my heart? I cannot continue to idle away my time here. What are Xehanort and the others attempting to do? I must unravel the mystery of these Ansem Reports, intercept my apprentices, and defeat them. That is my mission... the only way to repay the world for my sins.

These beings who lack hearts -- the Heartless -- must be the key. The darkness of the heart made flesh. Cursed shadows who not only lack hearts, but multiplying by seizing from any and all living things. Where have they come from, and where are they going?

**Three elements combine to create life: a heart, a soul, and a body.**

**But what of the soul and the body left behind when the heart is lost? When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death. But what about if the heart leaves? A being does not perish when its heart leaves its body. The heart alone disappears into the darkness.**

There is little time. If I remain in this realm much longer, I will certainly learn those answers the hard way. My heart is already a captive of the darkness.

 

[RKGenki]

Kingdom Hearts treats the concept of heart and soul in a weird way, where the heart acts like the soul and the "soul" as willpower, as seen with both the nobodies and the lingering will.

Btw since you beat me to it, can you post the other quotes about nonexistence here (also the ones referring to the realm of darkness as the realm of nonexistence).

Edit: ninjad... twice in a row...

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Axl

Mind trimming it down a tad for the direct point?

@RKGenki

The Lingering Will is a manifestation of Terra's mind, not his soul. Hence with Terra-Xehanort saying

"Your body submits, your heart succumbs... so why does your mind resist?!"

 

[RKGenki]

That goes against Xehanort explicitly knowing that a being is composed of a body, a heart and a soul, so it's either an inconsistency or he forgot that the soul is a thing. Or the soul and the mind are the same which is kinda... strange?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dragon is to Kingdom Hearts like I am to Digimon. I'm proud. ovo

 

[The_Everlasting]

Soul is a thing that's like... barely mentioned in the series and seems to just be the heart.

In KH the heart is the soul and the soul is just there, lol.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So....err......how does my proposal hold up?

 

[RKGenki]

@Ever Yeah, that's really weird.

@Dragon to me it seems pretty solid, what is now to discuss is if nobodies are nonexistent, to which I agree, mostly due to the various statements in the reports saying so. You should probably add that to the op.

 

[Axl233]

im did a little bit of more research and the only quotes that im could find about none existence is one Ansem report from KH1 and a lot of times that the Org XIII said that they dont exist,what we do undestand is that nobodies doesnt have souls but only willpower and the "shells" of they past selfs.


the thing that im found that is a little bit interesting is that Heartless are the living embodiments of darkness and that emblems types are the only ones that have hearts while pureblood ones doesnt have neither the hearts,souls or the mind.


also Keyblade masters can just poke your chest and you heart gets sucked out wich was stated in the glossary of DDD and there a lot of times that this happened in the series soo it should be probaly be added to all the keyblade masters.


one more thing just to correct you in the end of 358/2 Roxas and Axel dint grow hearts ,Roxas was assimilated to sora heart while Axel only grew a heart after he "died" in KH2.

 

[RKGenki]

@Axl it's actually implied that it grew back during 358 due to them being able to feel emotions, made evident by them crying during the game (I actually don't remember Axel explicitly crying there, but still the emotions part still stands).

 

[Axl233]

@The Everlasting.

TLDR:Hearts=/=souls,and souls in Kingdom hearts doesnt act like souls.

 

[Axl233]

@Axl it's actually implied that it grew back during 358 due to them being able to feel emotions, made evident by them crying during the game (I actually don't remember Axel explicitly crying there, but still the emotions part still stands).

Axel did grew emotions but he only becomed a human after he "died" in his nobody form Roxas is now part of Sora he is not his own being.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not totally sure about this. On one hand, it makes perfect sense, given Xemnas' control over other Nobodies and his affinity for "nothingness". But at the same time I always thought those reports were simply Ansem not considering Nobodies to be people due to lacking hearts.

I'm not sure if the existence erasure thing should be taken at face value. Nobodies don't have hearts to return to Kingdom Hearts, so killing them would presumably wipe them from existence from Axel's perspective (even though destroying one's Nobody and Heartless will restore the original Somebody).