Possible Julius Revision (Black Clover)

[CloverDragon03]

I thought these episodes were the only ones considered canon

No, the only fillers in Black Clover are flashback episodes or Petit Clover stuff

 

[GuildZero]

No, the only fillers in Black Clover are flashback episodes or Petit Clover stuff

Alright thank you

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can that be used for ap?

I was just looking for what he meant. Looks to me like he used a magic blast and it obliterated Patry's spell.

Also, Julius does have an AP statement. There was a Q&A after Noelle got Valkyrie Dress and it asked what Noelle's potential magic power is. Tabata answered that her potential magic power is on Julius' level.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Weak without reinforcment magic, and yeah mana is linear everytime they get a mana boost their stats increase and if you have too much more mana you can tank no damage from attacks etc

Taking damage from someone on his level ain't an anti-feat, simple as that

Tank no damage it's different with Takin the damage.

 

[WrongIdea21]

No, the only fillers in Black Clover are flashback episodes or Petit Clover stuff

It's not a filler but adding scene

 

[Theendzero13]

Tank no damage it's different with Takin the damage.

I did not say that julius did not take any damage i said that taking damage to patri ain't and anti-feat, because its not, taking damage against someone comparable to you don't mean anything
The other comment is objectively true not only for BC but for most shonen with and universal energy source , i don't know how that is evidence for bias

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's not a filler but adding scene

Things like that are still canon though. It’s just flat-out canon and shows Julius using AP

 

[WrongIdea21]

Things like that are still canon though. It’s just flat-out canon and shows Julius using AP

It's would be canon if they're fought of screen but this is purely adding scene that the full fight happened on the manga.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's would be canon if they're fought of screen but this is purely adding scene that the full fight happened on the manga.

Doesn’t work like that, added moments are just as canon as they’re part of the fight itself, especially with Black Clover which has very little filler and has relatively short fights so most get expanded on.

 

[Alsotime]

Doesn’t work like that, added moments are just as canon as they’re part of the fight itself, especially with Black Clover which has very little filler and has relatively short fights so most get expanded on.

I looked on the canon page for the wiki and this is what it said.

The generally agreed-upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is canonical, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise. Few other exceptions are also possible and should be noted on the verse page.

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

If the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should different results be reached by judging the feat through multiple canons, the result of the primary canon will have priority.

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canonical, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others).

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Jesus Christ, using filler is the peak

 

[CloverDragon03]

Jesus Christ, using filler is the peak

Except it’s not. And please don’t make unnecessary sarcastic comments that don’t contribute to the thread.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I looked on the canon page for the wiki and this is what it said.

These don’t come into conflict, as the anime is just adding more, and by definition, the anime is secondary canon here. This means it’s usable.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The "secondary canon" is used to help with context, not to add a new

 

[Theendzero13]

Yeah i also disagree with using the anime for that valkyrie dress being compared to julius by tabata is still a thing though

 

[GuildZero]

Ok so besides the anime added feat the statement about Valkyrie dress noelle still exist and can work idk if this counts as ap though.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ok so besides the anime added feat the statement about Valkyrie dress noelle still exist and can work idk if this counts as ap though.

It’s referring to sheer magic power, clear-cut, so it can’t be argued that it’s about combat skill of anything like that.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Jesus Christ, using filler is the peak

Like i said above anime adding scene si canon but if it's to clarify the cut or skipped scene and also to off screen fight.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Like i said above anime adding scene si canon but if it's to clarify the cut or skipped scene and also to off screen fight.

That’s not a fact, it’s you treating what you would consider canon as a fact, when in reality I’ve already explained why this would be canon.

Your specific criteria isn’t the objective decider.

 

[WrongIdea21]

That’s not a fact, it’s you treating what you would consider canon as a fact, when in reality I’ve already explained why this would be canon.

Your specific criteria isn’t the objective decider.

I don't get it, so what your spesific criteria then? Random adding scene? Even the anime director isn't Tabata itself, and script writen by Kazuyuki Fudeyasu not Tabata.

 

[Alsotime]

These don’t come into conflict, as the anime is just adding more, and by definition, the anime is secondary canon here. This means it’s usable.

No it isn’t, it is a different interpretation of the fight, The page for Julius is made for his manga version which is the canon version, anime fillers are usually only considered canon for fights that are off screen and or for time skips, and that’s usually only if the manga creator says that they are canon to the manga.

Also, How is that scene an ap feat? He is using time magic to accelerate and launch the rubble at his opponent.

 

[CloverDragon03]

No it isn’t, it is a different interpretation of the fight, The page for Julius is made for his manga version which is the canon version, anime fillers are usually only considered canon for fights that are off screen and or for time skips, and that’s usually only if the manga creator says that they are canon to the manga.

Also, How is that scene an ap feat? He is using time magic to accelerate and launch the rubble at his opponent.

What exactly would make that hax? I'm just using this to show that he can do actual AP attacks, and not just hax

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't get it, so what your spesific criteria then? Random adding scene? Even the anime director isn't Tabata itself, and script writen by Kazuyuki Fudeyasu not Tabata.

Anime is often treated as a secondary canon, and this doesn't come into conflict. It's literally what we got in the manga, plus more, which is common for Black Clover fights since they tend to be short in the manga.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Secondary canon is not canon. Secondary canon is used to help with a context of vague feats in the manga, as an example is the timeframes and sizes. Here the scene simply does not exist and there is no reason to use it, other than the "This is common, so it can be used" reason. This literally is not used and never will be at any time by the site, if it was at least something valid it would be sentenced on the page about canon. By the same logic we could use scenes like that, but we don't because it doesn't exist in the manga; Also, you refused to use "secondary canon" when a scene X happened in the manga and anime, but now that it's a downgrade even if the scene doesn't exist in the manga, it can be used.

Discussing about BC on this site really sucks

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, you refused to use "secondary canon" when a scene X happened in the manga and anime, but now that it's a downgrade even if the scene doesn't exist in the manga, it can be used.

Discussing about BC on this site really sucks

Did you think you actually had a "gotcha" moment there? I said if they contradict each other, then the primary canon takes priority. These don't contradict each other. The fact that you even went back to a discussion in April to try and get this "gotcha" is... yikes.

And what exactly sucks about it?

 

[WrongIdea21]

Secondary canon is not canon. Secondary canon is used to help with a context of vague feats in the manga, as an example is the timeframes and sizes. Here the scene simply does not exist and there is no reason to use it, other than the "This is common, so it can be used" reason. This literally is not used and never will be at any time by the site, if it was at least something valid it would be sentenced on the page about canon. By the same logic we could use scenes like that, but we don't because it doesn't exist in the manga; Also, you refused to use "secondary canon" when a scene X happened in the manga and anime, but now that it's a downgrade even if the scene doesn't exist in the manga, it can be used.

Discussing about BC on this site really sucks

I think this is quite representative of the argument I will make and as before secondary canon is used to see something that is not clear in the manga because it was cut or skipped, not to add something that was never shown to lead to the topic. The fight scene is very clear in the manga and continues without any skipped scenes, even though the scene changes to Yami but the previous scene is still in line with the time of the incident.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think this is quite representative of the argument I will make and as before secondary canon is used to see something that is not clear in the manga because it was cut or skipped, not to add something that was never shown to lead to the topic. The fight scene is very clear in the manga and continues without any skipped scenes, even though the scene changes to Yami but the previous scene is still in line with the time of the incident.

Let's take that scene out of the equation then. We still have a statement from Tabata about Noelle's potential magic power being at Julius' level, and this is a statement of sheer magic power. It's not like before where you could technically argue it being combat skill, it's strictly to do with how much magic he has

 

[WrongIdea21]

Let's take that scene out of the equation then. We still have a statement from Tabata about Noelle's potential magic power being at Julius' level, and this is a statement of sheer magic power. It's not like before where you could technically argue it being combat skill, it's strictly to do with how much magic he has

What Statment? I forgot about that Statment exists. Can You show it.

 

[WrongIdea21]

This right? I think that just for hers mana capacity, have much mana mean have strong magical power for their own magic specialty.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This right? I think that just for hers mana capacity, have much mana mean have strong magical power for their own magic specialty.

Yeah, that's the one. What I took it as was her potential magic power, essentially saying that her magic power has the potential to reach Julius' level. I thought we could scale Julius above Pre-TS Valkyrie Dress Noelle based on that statement.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Yeah, that's the one. What I took it as was her potential magic power, essentially saying that her magic power has the potential to reach Julius' level. I thought we could scale Julius above Pre-TS Valkyrie Dress Noelle based on that statement.

His magic Power is different type with Julius magic power, it sounds very unreasonable to me when we try to equate people who have equal magic power even though the magic types are different, even Yami is also stated that he has magic power that rivals Julius, like come on, was Noelle at that time on Yami's level? of course not.

 

[Alsotime]

What exactly would make that hax? I'm just using this to show that he can do actual AP attacks, and not just hax

It’s attack redirection, His time magic is accelerating it and sending it towards his opponent.

 

[Mageman460]

Erm there was a scene skip in the Patry vs Julius fight btw. Chapter 143 and 144. In fact the rubble being launched would have happened in that little skip between the two chapters. So yeah if the anime is accepted as canon then that does count as an attack.

 

[CloverDragon03]

His magic Power is different type with Julius magic power, it sounds very unreasonable to me when we try to equate people who have equal magic power even though the magic types are different, even Yami is also stated that he has magic power that rivals Julius, like come on, was Noelle at that time on Yami's level? of course not.

Yami never said this, and to be honest, I have no idea what you're on about.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Erm there was a scene skip in the Patry vs Julius fight btw. Chapter 143 and 144. In fact the rubble being launched would have happened in that little skip between the two chapters. So yeah if the anime is accepted as canon then that does count as an attack.

Skip? Which page? Even the rubble is still there, till Yami got there. Dragongamer already tired to argue that topic so am I.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Yami never said this, and to be honest, I have no idea what you're on about.

Yami doesn't but Valtos Did said that. Yami nearly rival Julius. Yami can used reinforcement magic same as Julius, Yami can block and attack Patri same as Julius did. But that's not implying they're scales each other they fought Patri with different Magic power, speed and skill. it's the same with Noelle's Case.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yami doesn't but Valtos Did said that. Yami nearly rival Julius. Yami can used reinforcement magic same as Julius, Yami can block and attack Patri same as Julius did. But that's not implying they're scales each other they fought Patri with different Magic power, speed and skill. it's the same with Noelle's Case.

Valtos isn't nearly a reliable enough source. And I don't understand why you're claiming that magic power means anything but magical strength when that's literally what it is. Anytime there's strong magic, it's referred to as magic power (Example: Yuno referring to Dark Elf Patry's Ray of Divine Punishment as "an insane concentration of magic power"). Why would it be different now?

Also, it's not the same as Noelle's case. All Valtos saw was that Yami can fight Patry and was like "does his power nearly rival the Wizard King's?" He doesn't even know the Wizard King's full power, so this is far less reliable. Here, it's a direct statement from the mangaka of Noelle's potential magic power being on Julius' level.

 

[WrongIdea21]

.

And I don't understand why you're claiming that magic power means anything but magical strength when that's literally what it is. Anytime there's strong magic, it's referred to as magic power (Example: Yuno referring to Dark Elf Patry's Ray of Divine Punishment as "an insane concentration of magic power"). Why would it be different now?

He had powerfull magic power and applying to his Type magic wich is light magic, and shot it and had AP. How about Julius? He Applying his Powerfull magic power, wich is stronger than All of the Captains and Used Time magic wich has no AP to Attack someone, his Powerfull magic is to powerfull to make someone get erase from existence and that require no AP since it's Hax.

Also, it's not the same as Noelle's case.

Same

All Valtos saw was that Yami can fight Patry and was like "does his power nearly rival the Wizard King's?" Here, it's a direct statement of Noelle's potential magic power being on Julius' level.

He made an assumption same as Yami made a assumption that Raia could move as fast as Patri.

 

[CloverDragon03]

He had powerfull magic power and applying to his Type magic wich is light magic, and shot it and had AP. How about Julius? He Applying his Powerfull magic power, wich is stronger than All of the Captains and Used Time magic wich has no AP to Attack someone, his Powerfull magic is to powerfull to make someone get erase from existence and that require no AP since it's Hax.

You're just elaborating on the Yami case, not actually explaining how it's the same as Noelle's case. And then you're just saying "Same" like I'm just supposed to trust you that it's the same case despite not actually explaining why.

He made an assumption same as Yami made a assumption that Raia could move as fast as Patri.

That wasn't an assumption. Raia was using the same spell that makes him move at lightspeed that Patry used. This is not an assumption.

Nothing about what you're saying is actually supporting your argument.

 

[WrongIdea21]

You're just elaborating on the Yami case, not actually explaining how it's the same as Noelle's case. And then you're just saying "Same" like I'm just supposed to trust you that it's the same case despite not actually explaining why.

Please read above, powerfull magic power doesn't scale to others AP if all of what you can do is. Hax.

That wasn't an assumption. Raia was using the same spell that makes him move at lightspeed that Patry used. This is not an assumption.

Its same on Valtos said that because Yami could block and attack Patri, so he made a assumption that Yami near rival Julius because Julius make Patri's Hand aging. Valtos simply used that for base of his Assumption.