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Possible God of War Upgrades

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question : @Kepekley23

1. in chains of olympus Why helios fall from the sky without reason ? do you think it has something to do with Atlas ?

2. during on elysium (GoW chains of olympus) Depowered Kratos can destroy soul with his bare hands. What do you think about that ?

3. How kratos can bring titans from the past to the present if he need pass the mirror to able using time travel ?
 
1. Yeah, that's almost definitely the reason. I assume Helios was kidnapped by Atlas and brought to the Underworld(?) at that exact moment.

2. I assume that's because he was technically part of Elysium, since Gaia says: "He would need to become the Ghost of Sparta once again..."

3. Kratos gained the ability to manipulate time after he killed the Sisters.
 
@Andika CL atmadja

1. I have no idea. I assume he physically overpowered Helios and defeated him, and then stole his power? That's the only thing i can think of, since the Sun we see falling from the sky is actually Helios in his giant form.

3. Well, according to the novels, red and green orbs are canon. I assume that Kratos absorbed the Sisters's life force and gained their powers, so yes.

@Js250476

Well, anything below pure Omnipotence is limited. I assume Kratos's time-travel has very few limits.
 
1. perhaps Atlas using telekinesis ?

3. OK cool.

Another question:

1. How Atlas can still survive after hades suck out his soul during great war ?
 
Andika CL atmadja said:
1. perhaps Atlas using telekinesis ?
3. OK cool.

Another question:

1. How Atlas can still survive after hades suck out his soul during great war ?
Click to expand...
1. Maybe. That's a good theory.

2. Atlas was banished to Tartarus, so i assume his soul returned to him after he was sent there.
 
Matthew, if you're going to update the profiles accordingly this weekend, at least tell me what you disagree with and why via PM so i can answer your doubts. I'm going to be pretty disappointed if you ignore any of my responses without countering them.

Here's the second part of my FTL GOW section.

Before i present anything, i want to complement my Hermes section. According to WoG, the Boots of Hermes are capable of keeping up with a faster-than-light Zeus, which proves once again that Hermes has FTL Combat Speed.

THE MULTIPLAYER WARRIORS

- According to the multiplayer, the Warriors of Zeus are capable of dashing at their enemies at the speed of light with use of a Hyperion Gate. So the Warriors of Zeus can temporarily(not constantly; this is consistent, as you will see below) attack at the speed of light, giving them temp-Lightspeed Attack and Combat Speeds.

- The multiplayer and its contents are plainly stated to be canon on pg. 184 of the God of War Ascension artbook . Therefore, the statement above is true.

- Not only that, but WOG also clarifies it . Twice. I'll also show you guys a few feats that suggest the description is true.

- There is feat for the Warriors of Ares where they leap really, really high into the heavens in a second. How large are the heavens? They are so massive in span that they are described in the GOW novels as infinite, an obviously hyperbolic statement, but that shows us the heavens are really, really big.

-Assuming the Warriors of Ares leaped where Mount Olympus would normally be in height(not an unreasonable assumption at all, as you'll see below), they traveled a distance of 8,586 miles(13,737.6 kilometers) in a single second. This is 1/20th of the speed of light, a Sub-Relativistic feat for nameless characters. So the Warriors of Ares can travel at 5% of the speed of light. This easily scales to the Warriors of Zeus.

-The Warriors of Hades have a feat where they travel from the top of Mount Olympus all the way to the bottom in a single second as well. This means they're roughly as fast as the Warriors of Ares.

I have proven Sub-Relativistic speed with temporary Lightspeed-dashing for the nameless tiers of God of War is reasonable. Let's continue.

Castor and Pollux

-According to WoG, Castor and Pollux from Ascension are faster than the Warriors of Zeus's lightspeed dash move . This is not a random comparison either; you can meet Castor and Pollux on the Oracle's Chamber in the multiplayer, and he mocks the champions and can easily kill you if you're not careful. In other words, him being quite a bit above the champions is self-evident in the game and further clarified by WoG.

Kratos

- Kratos can keep up with Castor and Pollux , but WoG also suggests that they were partially toying around with Kratos, so upgrading Kratos to a mere Relativistic at this stage of the game seems fine, with him being LS towards the end of the game.

-WOG clarifies that Kratos had dynamic stats due to rage. This is the perfect explanation as to how he is able to fight literally everyone in the verse. It makes sense and correlates nicely with we're shown; it also explains a bit of the enormous power disparity between each game(GoW II Kratos is a chewtoy of the Three Brothers, but GoW III Kratos slices Hades's head open, brutalizes Poseidon and punches Zeus so much that the screen turns red with his rage)

- Kratos keeps up with and even surpasses Zeus.

-Kratos has an attack that is stated to be as fast as Zeus's lightning in short-busts , and Zeus's lightning is close to lightspeed by showings and WOG alone. This once again cements the consistency of the evidence i have presented.

Zeus

-Zeus is clearly stated to be godly in comparison to his servants. Once again, this makes sense with the feats we're shown. So Zeus is at least FTL based on WoG and actual feats.

DEBUNKING MISCONCEPTIONS

Misconception #1: Multiplayer feats are not canon.

Rebuttal: This is wrong. I showed several confirmations of the Multiplayer's canocity, including the GOW Ascension artbook.

Misconception #2: These feats contradict the atual series massively.

Rebuttal: No, not really. God of War Ascension retconned a massive amount of stuff. It retconned Chaos creating the universe for once. It makes a good deal of sense for the speed to amp'ed based on this.
 
@matthew

"So the Subsonic argument completely falls apart."

The subsonic argument cannot fall apart purely due to you saying the speed is not apparent. Tell me this, why throw out all the apparent speed, especially when everything in the game, including cutscenes point to that apparent speed being logical? Saying we "have to control Kratos" therefore it looks slowed down makes no sense because it would not explain how long it takes to get anywhere at speeds that look subsonic, along distances that unless everyone is hundreds of meters tall should take fractions of a second for Kratos to cross.


There is nothing wrong or impossible with Kratos, or indeed Hermes being "subsonic", that is how we see them in the cutscenes and in-game.

If you do not want this discussion to derail this thread ill make my own "Kratos revision" in the opposite direction if you prefer, I appreciate there are a lot of fans (including staff) of God of war here but not discussing it and just listing Kratos as planetary in power when all of his speed and feats appear signifcantly lower quite consistenly speaks of bias to the high end, meanwhile I am willing to discuss the low end of subsonic as much as you like.

Apologies if I come across as unreasonable but Kepekleys arguments are so far up on the spectrum, a faster than light Kratos who can bust planets? really....I think that sort of thing has to be argued against and discussed down.

Also I know where the whole mount Olympus being 13 000 km comes from (the number was deduced, not stated if I recall) but that does not appear right from the games, we see what appears to be clouds above mount Olympus in the God war 3 cutscene , isnt 13 000 km in space? The highest clouds are like, 85 km.
 
You may think it has to be argued against, but the vsbatttles GOW community has already agreed with my Planet-level arguments, and i have just begun posting evidence of FTL Gow and i'm already answering the questions of several users.

Matthew has already told you that Subsonic God of War won't be accepted, and you were banned for trolling in the old thread.

You have literally no arguments against my stuff; i have already debunked 100% of your counter-arguments, while you haven't gotten me to concede even a single centimeter of my post.
 
The subsonic argument cannot fall apart purely due to you saying the speed is not apparent. Tell me this, why throw out all the apparent speed, especially when everything in the game, including cutscenes point to that apparent speed being logical? Saying we "have to control Kratos" therefore it looks slowed down makes no sense because it would not explain how long it takes to get anywhere at speeds that look subsonic, along distances that unless everyone is hundreds of meters tall should take fractions of a second for Kratos to cross.

You're wrong again.

Hermes moving at "subsonic" speeds is both a case of Cinematic Time and gameplay mechanics. I've shown dozens of speed feats for him, and more. In the comics, which are confirmed to be primary canon, a massively toying around Hermes crosses an entire mountain range in a split second, all while filling several cups of wine, before Poseidon can even finish a sentence.

If you do not want this discussion to derail this thread ill make my own "Kratos revision" in the opposite direction if you prefer, I appreciate there are a lot of fans (including staff) of God of war here but not discussing it and just listing Kratos as planetary in power when all of his speed and feats appear signifcantly lower quite consistenly speaks of bias to the high end

I've already shown a countless amount of Planet-level feats for the top-tier bag of God of War. I've also shown that even the most nameless low-mid tiers have Sub-Relativistic speed.

Apologies if I come across as unreasonable but Kepekleys arguments are so far up on the spectrum, a faster than light Kratos who can bust planets? really....I think that sort of thing has to be argued against and discussed down.

Good luck using gameplay mechanics to debate against the lore and the series itself. Good luck convicing even a single person in the wiki of subsonic top tiers.

Also I know where the whole mount Olympus being 13 000 km comes from (the number was deduced, not stated if I recall) but that does not appear right from the games, we see what appears to be clouds above mount Olympus in the God war 3 cutscene , isnt 13 000 km in space? The highest clouds are like, 85 km.

Massively wrong again.

Mount Olympus being thousands of miles tall is confirmed by WoG. So your main argument falls apart in a millisecond.

We can see in the concept art that Mount Olympus is so large that it makes the ocean, which even near the shorelines is able to swallow a 500-meter tall titan with no effort, look like it's as deep as concrete. In other words, nothing.

Mount Olympus is supernaturally tall not only by WoG, concept art and by logic(since the 500m titans don't even occupy hundredths of the mountain), but also by actual showings.

Athena can jump from the top of Olympus all the way to the Sucide Bluffs near Athens, instead of flying there horizontally.

Being cast from the top of Olympus can result in a fiery tumble down to the Earth.(Which actually happens on God of War II.)

Mount Olympus is so tall that Athens, which is hundreds of kilometers away from the base of the mountain, is considered FAR below it.

Athena looks down on the battle at Rhodes, which is described as happening far below the top of Olympus.

The clouds are implied to be supernatural. Try again.
 
In classical Greek artwork, Atlas is depicted holding the celestial spheres on his shoulders. By this account, it is easily deduced that Mythology Atlas is at least planetary to possible Solar System level depending on interpretation. However, in the GoW series, Atlas is depicted lifting what is assumed to be a layer of rock, most likely the crust of the "world." For GoW Atlas to be planetary, what he carries needs to be the same mass as Earth. Considering that we are dealing with a flat Earth type scenario, we will only be dealing with mass.

The mass of our Earth is 5.972*10^24 kg.

The oceanic crust is 5 km to 10 km thick and is composed primarily of basalt, diabase, and gabbro. The continental crust is typically from 30 km to 50 km thick and is mostly composed of slightly less dense rocks than those of the oceanic crust.

In comparison to real life,

Mt. Olympus = 2.917 km

Mt. Everest = 8.848 km

The average density of continental crust is about 2.7 g/cm3, less dense than the ultramafic material that makes up the mantle, which has a density of around 3.3 g/cm3. Continental crust is also less dense than oceanic crust, whose density is about 2.9 g/cm3. At 25 to 70 km, continental crust is considerably thicker than oceanic crust, which has an average thickness of around 7―10 km. About 40% of Earth's surface is currently occupied by continental crust. It makes up about 70% of the volume of Earth's crust.

To make things simple, I'll average the numbers.

Average Crust Thickness = 23.75


Average Crust Density = 2.8*10^12 kg/km^3

GoW Calc. Mass of Earth = Density * Thickness * Surface Area

5.972*10^24 kg = 2.8*10^12 kg/km^3 * 23.75 km * A

A = 8.9804511278*10^10 km^2

In comparison, Surface area of Earth = 510100000 km^2 = 5.101*10^8 km^2

For GoW Atlas to be planetary, the Gow World needs to have an area 176.052756868 times larger than our Earth's, not including Olympus.
 
@Firestorm808

Wrong.

In classical Greek artwork, Atlas is depicted holding the literal Earth on his shoulders. By this account, it is easily deduced that Mythology Atlas is at least planetary.However, in the GoW series, Atlas is depicted lifting what is assumed to be a layer of rock, most likely the crust of the "world." For GoW Atlas to be planetary, what he carries needs to be the same mass as Earth. Considering that we are dealing with a flat Earth type scenario, we will only be dealing with mass.

No. Mythological Atlas never held the literal Earth on his shoulders; that was a misrepresentation of the original myths. He was stated to be holding the heavens, which is massively different from the Earth.

The mass of our Earth is 5.972*10^24 kg. The oceanic crust is 5 km to 10 km thick and is composed primarily of basalt, diabase, and gabbro. The continental crust is typically from 30 km to 50 km thick and is mostly composed of slightly less dense rocks than those of the oceanic crust.

The oceans in the God of War series are far larger than their real life counterparts. The oceans are so deep that a 500-meter tall Titan can be completely submerged into the water without a trace, even near the shorelines.

In comparison, Mt. Olympus = 2.917 km

No.

God of War's version of Mount Olympus is a few orders of magnitude bigger than the actual mountain, as i've said several times in this thread.

It's stated here that the top of Olympus rests so high in the heavens that it would take a person three full days to fall from the top to the bottom.

Which makes it 13,737.6 kilometers tall.

For GoW Atlas to be planetary, the Gow World needs to have an area 176.052756868 times larger than our Earth's In conclusion, I do not believe that GoW Atlas is planetary, or anyone in the series for that matter.

Sorry, but your beliefs had already been debunked.

If you really want to calculate, i can (re)-post a calculation that proves GOW's Earth is 200,000 times bigger than the real one.

The only reason why i'm not posting more proof of such a thing is because the downplayers would never accept it.

Also, feats, lore and WOG > fan calcs.
 
Stig Asmussen was the Art Director for the God of War franchise and became Game Director for God of War III. He stated that Cronos was 1,600 ft or 487.68 m tall and so was Gaia.

To scale, those two are 26127.7887139 times shorter than the diameter of the Earth which is 12742*10^3 m

Atlas is holding the entire world, including the 13,737 kilometers tall Mount Olympus.

I'll assume the Mount Olympus to be 20 Titans in Diameter.

If I were to imagine Mount Olympus as a cylinder, the formula would be

Mass of Olympus = 13737 * 2.8*10^12 * (10/2)^2*pi = 3.0209240798*10^18 kg

5.972*10^24 - 3.0209240798*10^18 = 5.9719969791*10^24 = Mass of Leftover Land

5.9719969791*10^24 = 2.8*10^12 kg/km^3 * 23.75 km * A

A = 8.9804465851*10^10 km^2

GoW would need a Surface Area 176.052667812 time larger than Earth's to make it a planetary feat.
 
Nice.

I also did a calculation that resulted in the Earth having a diameter two hundred thousand times bigger than the real one(just press Ctrl+F and type "200,000 times")

However, we're assuming the Earth to be as big as the real one, for the sake of the people who would never accept it being any bigger.
 
Atlas in God of War only lifts the crust of the Earth. The Underworld is inside the planet and Atlas is trapped there holding the crust.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Atlas in God of War only lifts the crust of the Earth. The Underworld is inside the planet and Atlas is trapped there holding the crust.
Click to expand...
Nope. Read my OP in the "Planet" section and you'll see evidence that he is lifting the entire world, not the crust. The concept art proves this even further.

WOG is not always correct. Unless you believe Hyperion is an universe-lifter or that Accio travels at the speed of light.
 
http://godofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Atlas#Greek_Mythology.C2.A0

The mighty Atlas is depicted with four arms to show he holds up the sky. A prime example of misconception exists throughout the series as, whether deliberate or a mistake, Atlas is seen holding up the world atop of the Underworld. One reason for this could be to avoid confusion; in western society, the word 'atlas' is most commonly associated with cartography, so it would make sense for the Titan to hold the Earth rather than the Heavens.

It still looks like it's the crust isnce it's just a single layer of rock.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
If Atlas is lifting the whole planet: Where is he standing?
Click to expand...
He is standing here.

The Underworld isn't part of the planet. It is plainly separated from it.

This timeline clearly says the destruction of the World Pillar would result in the destruction of all creation had Atlas not been chained to it.

Atlas tanked it.

As i said above, GOW's Earth is at the very least the same mass as ours, with the actual evidence suggesting it to be in reality much, much larger to even begin to count. I'm purposedly downplaying it to entertain vsbattles.

Also, i debunked your "the scene is cut" argument. The novels plainly state that the "Turn back to Olympus, beast!" scene took place mere moments after the scene where the Pegasus is shown flying towards the skies:

"Mere moments earlier, the Pegasus wings had been mere sparks. They were now a rainbow-like fire" - pg. 69 to 70
 
The Underworld is literally underground. You fall into it and you can climb your way back to Earth.

The pics all depict the surface with the underworld beneath. Atlas lifts the surface.

"All of Creation" refers to the surface and the underworld (Thanks to the surface falling and crushing onto the underworld).

Which again only makes sense in a flat Earth.

There is no evidence that the GoW Earth is larger.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Underworld is literally underground. You fall into it and you can climb your way back to Earth.
The pics all depict the surface with the underworld beneath. Atlas lifts the surface.

"All of Creation" refers to the surface and the underworld (Thanks to the surface falling and crushing onto the underworld).

Which again only makes sense in a flat Earth.

There is no evidence that the GoW Earth is larger.
Click to expand...
The Underworld is separate from the planet. That's why it's called the Realm of Hades.

Zeus digging through it doesn't count. He is a god, and he plainly admits in the novels to have used his powers to save Kratos. Hades is so furious with him that they almost fight.

If we were to take that scene seriously, the Underworld would be 5 meters below Athens. Which is too ridiculous to even begin addressing.

All of creation = Planet Earth. Saauceee.

Want me to repost my calculations?

Want me to post sources supporting my calcs?
 
It isn't, my dude. The Underworld is physically beneath the Planet. Olympus literally begins growing in the Underworld and ascends up the surface, and the Chain of Olympus physically stretches from the Underworld to Olympus.

Mother Gaia is the embodiment of the Earth, not the Universe. Her creation is the Earth, not that it matters since as we see in the Ascension Opening, she didn't even create the Earth.

Your calculations are false.
 
I never said the Underworld wasn't beneath the planet. I'm challenging your assumption that it's somehow part of the planet itself. The concept art clearly shows it being a separate thing.

Mount Olympus stretches across different realms. That's it.

The Underworld is so massive in span that it's considered immeasurable. If you consider it part of the Flat Earth, you're making Helios's feat of destroying the world, and all the countless lore stuff i posted even better.

Furthermore, the timeline says "the pillar that holds the world", once again implying that Underworld is not part of the world, since the pillar doesn't hold it. It's engrained into the grounds surrounding Elysium

I never, ever said that Gaia was the embodiment of the Universe. I literally said the exact opposite in the original post.

All of creation clearly means the entire world, because that's what is stated.

Why are my calculations false?....That's a circular argument.

"Your calcs are false."

"Why?"

"Because they are false".

...
 
As i said above, the Pegasus takes 6 days to fly to the Isle of Creation, even though it flew from Rhodes to Etna in three to five minutes. I have already proven the scene cuts to mere moments later via the novels, so no, my calculations are never shown to be false. At all.

The Isle of Creation is lore-stated to be located in the Earth. Cronos even had to tether it to the Steeds of Time in order to keep it from falling out of the edge.

So no. My calculations have foundation on the lore itself.

All you need to accept is the Earth being as big as the real one. I don't know why'you re so adamant against this, man..
 
"I never said the Underworld wasn't beneath the planet."

You implied it's completely separate.

"I'm challenging your assumption that it's somehow part of the planet itself. The concept art clearly shows it being a separate thing."

Let's run an experiment.

The Underworld is literally beneath the Earth, what does this mean?

  • 1 If the Earth is flat, then sure, that makes sense, but that also makes the Earth High 6-A sized.
  • 2 If the Earth is round, then the Underworld is beneath the Earth's crust.
"Mount Olympus stretches across different realms. That's it"

Through sheer size, not magic. There's a literal physical chain that stretches from the Top of Olympus to the Underworld, and we see that Olympus is just an impossibly huge mountain that starts in the Underworld and rises to beyond the surface

"The Underworld is so massive in span that it's considered immeasurable"

Never heard of Hyperbole? Apparently not.

"If you consider it part of the Flat Earth"

It's beneath the Flat Planet

"you're making Helios's feat of destroying the world, and all the countless lore stuff i posted even better."

No, a Flat Planet makes Helios' feat High 6-A

"Furthermore, the timeline says "the pillar that holds the world", once again implying that Underworld is not part of the world, since the pillar doesn't hold it. It's engrained into the grounds surrounding Elysium"

Which makes sense since the GoW Planet is always depicted as flat up until Ascension.

"All of creation clearly means the entire world, because that's what is stated."

Which is 100% depicted as flat in Chains of Olympus. When Helios is taken from the sky, the sun literally disappears.

The only way you can make the "The Earth loses the pillar supports it and literally falls onto the Underworld" make sense is with a flat Planet.
 
^ I was watching the video you linked, and it clearly shows that the GoW sun is just a temple in the sky. If that sun crashed on our Earth, it wouldn't destroy the whole planet.
 
Why are you pretending i don't agree with the God of War planet being flat when i literally stated it was, an infinite amount of times no less, and was the one who posted the concept art plainly demonstrating such a thing?

That suggests you didn't even read my original post before commenting.

1 If the Earth is flat, then sure, that makes sense, but that also makes the Earth High 6-A sized.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1014976#99

Never heard of Hyperbole? Apparently not.

An unclear statement is not the same as a hyperbole. The Underworld being immeasurable simply means it's just way, way too large to be measured. I'm just saying it's bigger than the Earth, which is a fact since that's what is shown in the concept art.

No, a Flat Planet makes Helios' feat High 6-A

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1014976#99

Which makes sense since the GoW Planet is always depicted as flat up until Ascension.

I literally quoted you saying Ascension showing a round planet was not related to God of War, it was simply an easter egg.

So you confirmedly didn't read my posts.

That's sad.

Which is 100% depicted as flat in Chains of Olympus. When Helios is taken from the sky, the sun literally disappears.

That's not the sun, that's Helios's personifcation of it.
 
Which is a High 6-A feat. Your calculation is false.

And no, my man. The narration literally states that the sun plunged from the sky. In Chains of Olympus, the sun is Helios' chariot.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Which is a High 6-A feat. Your calculation is false.
And no, my man. The narration literally states that the sun plunged from the sky. In Chains of Olympus, the sun is Helios' chariot.
Click to expand...
Why is my calculation false?

Why is my calculation false?

Why is my calculation false?

I'll repeat this ten thousand times until you actually answer the question. I have already debunked the one point that "disproved" it, and you failed to answer it despite me QUOTING IT.

No. "The sun" is simply a metaphor to refer to Helios, like Hades is used to refer to the Underworld. WOG has already expanded on this...
 
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