Possible God of War Upgrades

Okay, so this topic will create millions of teratons worth of controversy. Still, i ask the mods to highlight this since it will be a pretty important upgrade to a very well-known verse if accepted.

Remember that "GOW is Universal" post of mine? Well, i'm back, but this time it's to discuss much, much smaller upgrades:

Planet-level upgrades

Possible FTL Upgrades

This will be a massive wall of text. Sorry, but that's the only possible way i can explain my point of view concisely.

First of all, Kratos being Building-level in the first game is flat-out wrong, because even normal, random Spartans have Large Building-level feats. Yes, even normal humans have superhuman strength and speed in the God of War universe.

SOLDIERS FEATS:

- Four trained spartan soldiers bring down a massive statue of Ares in less than four seconds with relative ease. The pressure is so massive in span that it fragments the statue before it gets even close to the ground.

- As you can see in the beginning of the scene, the statue is so big that Kratos, who is stated to be 8'6 by the developers(he is also stated to be "much bigger than any human" by Adam Puhl.) is a fly compared to it.

- Several random soldiers show damage soak, as they tank being hit by undead legionnaries. How strong are the legionnaries? They're strong enough to casually snap really thick chains which could probably tie an elephant to position. They're also strong enough to violently fragment thick, magical ice that can freeze anything in a single instant, which means it is much, much colder than the absolute zero.

- Human archers are strong enough to fire arrows at transonic speed. (God of War 1)

- Human archers are strong enough to pierce through stone with their arrows(God of War 1).

MONSTERS FEATS:

-Two harpies completely tank an explosion that disintegrates two armored soldiers. And as i've shown above, they have superhuman durability.

- Harpies and legionnaries completely tank a magical fire that is strong enough to push a statue weighing a few tons back a few meters.

- Any monster in the entire series can shatter Medusa's stone in seconds.

- Cyclopses are strong enough to kill a human being with the wind generated by a near-miss of their clubs.

- The winds of the Desert of Lost Souls are so strong that they can tear the skin and flesh off of a human being. 1 2

-And yet the Sirens, which are not as strong as some of the other monsters, completely tank being in the Desert.

-So does Kratos, to the point where he isn't even scratched by it.

- The Cyclopses are so strong that the gods called on them to help build Mount Olympus. 1 2

- Harpies were able to carry Pandora's Box, which was so heavy that a relatively weakened but still vastly superhuman Kratos struggled to even push it, as if it was made of peanut butter.

- Triton Soldiers, a merman-type of enemy, are capable of ultra-casually swimming through water that would kill normal humans and probably destroy buildings,

In other words, random grunts and enemies are Large Building-level, and they scale to literally everyone in the verse.

FanofRpgs has also calc'ed GOW 1 Kratos at Large Town-level based on him vaporizing hundreds of monsters with a full-power Poseidon's Rage attack . The calc would have an even bigger yield had he known Kratos was 8'6.

SPARTAN KRATOS FEATS

Not many people know about this, but General, pre-Ascension Kratos actually has plenty of feats. And, as expected, they are above Large Building level.

- Easily kills Satyrs, who scale to spartans

- Overpowers a whirlpoorl l which is easily well above City-Block level.

- Even 12-year old Kratos is vastly superhuman, being trained to endure situations that would kill humans within hours

- Hacks through a City-Block-sized sea snake with fanks bigger than the length of his body.

- Knocks , and subsequently defeats a soldier blessed by Helios, the titan of the sun.-

-Possibly scales to the Last Spartan, who tanked a lightning bolt that vaporized superhuman armored soldiers.

I have proven that even the most random fodder is at least Large-Building level, possibly even higher. This is thus an upgrade to early Kratos.

Now, let's get to the Planet-level stu and some-more upgrades.

- The novels are canon.

- The comics are canon.

PLANET-LEVEL GOD OF WAR:

-According to the God of War multiplayer, Atlas once held a hammer that possessed the weight of the worldt. I'll prove below that this is not hyperbole at all, with gigatons of evidence from the novels and the series.

- The God of War Ascension multiplayer is specifically stated to be canon.

- The World Pillar supports all of creation from above, separating the immeasurable Underworld from the living world. All of creation, in this context, means the Earth. The timeline even suggests so. [http:// This is proven even more when Gyges, the son of Uranus that Kratos kills in the comics, states that "Gaia is the mother of all creation".]

-This is proven even further when we find out that the World Pillar was right below the Island of Creation, which was where the Earth was created according to the lore. This cements the consistency of the timeline and the lore.

- In other words, Atlas is holding all of creation, including the 13,737 kilometers tall Mount Olympus, from above. This proves that the description of the hammer is not a hyperbole in the first place. This will be proven even further after i present the novel feats.

-Helios's power is directly stated to be world-busting , on-screen no less. And this correlates ultra-mega nicely with the World Pillar, as you'll see below.

- Atlas, the proven planet-lifter, is stated to have been forced to steal Helios's power in order to destroy the World Pillar. The gif above even details this in the last second("It can't be trusted in the hands of a titan")

-So Helios's world-busting power needs to be stolen by another world-buster(Atlas's lifting strength is equal to his attacking strength, i'll prove this below) with the goal of destroying the World Pillar. This makes sense, since the pillar is engrained in the Underworld, which completely and utterly dwarfs the Flat Earth, as seen here.

- After the pillar is destroyed by Persephone's explosion(by the way, i know some people will try to downplay GOW by mentioning the fact that Persephone, a low-level goddess, destroyed the pillar after her death. You're forgetting the fact that it was absolutely raped by Atlas after he stole Helios's power, so the pillar was severely damaged already), Atlas is chained to position at where it once stood, proving he was undoubtedly holding the same thing.

- Atlas completely and utterly tanks the destruction of the pillar, despite being hit point-blank and being at the very center of the blast. This proves that he has Planet-level durability as well.

GOD OF WAR NOVEL FEATS:

- While massively weakened due to being limited to her Spirit Form, Gaia shifts entire continents(plural) by TAKING A SIGH.

- Gaia stirrs a little bit and causes giant cracks to appear in the continents and also forms entire mountain ranges, still in her massively weakened Spirit Form.

- (not from the novels, but from the lore) Gaia is the embodiment of the Earth.

- Gaia is confirmedly nigh-omnipresent .

- Atlas is so strong that he could balance the world with a single hand if he had to. Consistent with him tanking Planet-level blasts, again.

- Same panel as above; Atlas can exhert the same pressure in crushing Kratos as he can lift the world, which makes his lifting strength equal to his attack potency . In other words, Kratos is already Planet-level by the end of GoW II. Consistent with him matching Zeus.

In other words, Weakened Gaia is a hyper-casual Multi-Continent level character. Once again, consistent with Planet-level DC.

HAX

-Kratos has resistance to Death Manipulation. It isn't instantaneous, but it could kill any normal being within seconds.

-Kratos has hammerspace.

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EDIT: Here is 30% of the FTL stuff:

Hermes Travel Speed:

- Hermes's travel speed is really, really insane.According to the lore, Hermes is the bringer of the dreams and the god who guides the souls of the dead down to the underworld. When i originally presented this, some people claimed that this might have been something he did passively with his existence. However, this is far from true. WOG has confirmed that Hermes actually has to run in order to do this. It wasn't even necessary, since the lore makes use of the words "guides" and "brings", suggesting movement.

- Thanks to the novels, we actually know how many people are guided to the underworld each second. The number is well into the hundreds. In our world, two people die each second. The number is a few orders of magnitude larger on God of War, which further proves that the God of War is so big in span that it can support hundreds of people dying each few seconds, making it AT LEAST as big as our world.

- Even if we assume only 200 people are guided there each second, it's still a really insane feat. Hermes has to travel and run to the entrance of the Underworld and come back to Olympus each second, while coordinately delivering hundreds of souls to the chasm each time. Going by mere logic, this feat is 'M'FTL.

Hermes's Travel Speed - MFTL via a massive lowball

Scales to:

- Pretty much nobody. He's plainly stated by WoG to be infinitely faster than any other god in the verse. Possibly the Sisters of the Fate due to their ultra-insane multitasking, but that's it, i guess?

Hermes's Combat Speed

-As i said above, Hermes is capable of dodging the Head of Helios , a light so fast that it could illuminate the Underworld, which is massively bigger than the already-really-big-Earth by virtue of statements and concept arts, in a mere moment. Therefore, Hermes is quite faster than light.

-The feat above is clarified by WoG as being deliberate . So no, it's almost impossible to downplay this.

Hermes's Combat Speed - FTL+

Debunking Misconceptions:

Misconception #1: Hermes was tagged by a catapult, so the first feat is an outlier and contradicts the games.

Rebuttal: Absolutely not. Hermes was cornered and had no way to go. Furthermore, if we assume the low-end to be true, we have to assume even the fastest god on God of War is only Subsonic in speed, which massively contradicts everything else.

Misconception #2: Hermes's travel speed is shown to be only somewhat bigger than Kratos's halfway through GoW III. How the heck can he be MFTL?

Rebuttal: Hermes was quite clearly toying around with Kratos. Not only does he openly taunt Kratos countless times, but this is further proven when you realize that he was infected by Hubris after Pandora's Box was opened by Kratos.

Scales to:

- Pretty much every top tier, from Kratos all the way down to Athena.

Necessary bump.

You can ask Matthew Schroeder and EliminatorVenom to comment here if you wish.

Eliminator has already revised my upgrades & agreed with them

I'll ask Matthew then.

Ill answer this as I am against a lot of the higher end Kratos scaling and am knowledgable in the series having played most of the games, first;

Normal soldiers being superhuman- Your suggestiosn here are mostly impossible to gauge, because a statue can have all kinds of factors we do not know about its make. For all we know the statue is not even solid stone, or may be really old and fragile. Breaking down a statue with multiple men with a long period of time of tugging is hardly casual either.

Is there any cutscene showing this kind of damage soak from the humans? Or is this just in-game health and mechanics? I ask because breaking those chains is a lot like what i said above, its unclear how strong the chains are beyond holding down a trap door.

"

Harpies surviving magical fire - Their fire harpies, that is hardly surprising. Also how did you scale the statues weight?

Cyclopses killing humans with the wind from clubs - The source says they "might" be, not that they were or would be, there is a key difference. It sounds informal and inconclusive.

Kratos not being harmed by the sands - although Kratos clearly has beyond peak human durability that does not mean the sands were at that moment at a peak that they would harm humans. You can likely find claims of hyperbole that say even desert winds and sandstorms in reality could cause major damage. We see from your cutscene that Kratos who cannot weigh more than what, twice a human was not even moved by it.

Last Spartan tanking lightning He was launched off a building that was destroyed by the lightning, and by destroyed I mean the top was smashed, its impressive but humans can survive falling from buildings, its more likely peak human.

Atlas lifting the world The world of God of war is not the same as our Earth, lets make this clear, its a large flat disc as your image shows. Your image also shows us that it looks like there are multiple pillars that hold up the disc.

Your logic revolves around Atlas being planet destroying/moveing in strength yet he needs an amp and even then struggles to do much damage to a pillar that holds up a large disc (the GoW world). You realize Atlas is sealed by chains that have only a fewmeter long awls right? in stone. The Titans are strong but not planetary.

We see the strength of Atlas and the Titans in battle and despite fighting for their lives their not even breaking the ground around them. The force of Atlas seen here is enough to launch likely double to triple digit tons of rock rolling and cause quakes but nothing planetary or even continental. The Titans are bested by hades.

Atlas balancing the world with a hand who knows what is hyperbole and not with all these claims with far more contradictary feats? Also note how it says Kratos is like a mewling baby to the strength of his thumb and forefinger? Kratos needs a downgrade, I see a lot of feats scaled from the Titans and Gods yet we know hes not up to their full strength.


Planet level Kratos No sorry, he is impaled, stabbed, fights a spartan (the lost spartan) with some effort before killing him, gets impaled by stone pillars and is injured by far more than planetary levels. Kratos can barely lift double digit ton pillars with ease , Atlas using an unknown amount of force with only his thumb and forefinger is completely ungaugable.

You again.

'Y'our suggestiosn here are mostly impossible to gauge, because a statue can have all kinds of factors we do not know about its make. For all we know the statue is not even solid stone, or may be really old and fragile. Breaking down a statue with multiple men with a long period of time of tugging is hardly casual either.

You're, of course, wrong.

The statue is very clearly made of stone. That's a non-debatable point.

Long period of time? Absolutely not. The spartans only begin to pull with their full strength when the General orders them to. It takes them less than four seconds to pull down a statue at least 30+ meters in size and many hundreds of tons in weight, and the pressure is so massive that they actually fragment before it hits the ground.

Is there any cutscene showing this kind of damage soak from the humans? Or is this just in-game health and mechanics? I ask because breaking those chains is a lot like what i said above, its unclear how strong the chains are beyond holding down a trap door.

There's no such thing as game mechanics here. The soldiers are one-shot bait for stronger monsters, so for all intents and purposes, they have damage soak when faced with monsters like the legionnaries. There is no tiptoeing around legitimate feats.

The chains are clearly shown to be strong and thick enough to hold the trapdoor shut. Once again, no tiptoeing.

Their fire harpies, that is hardly surprising. Also how did you scale the statues weight?

I've already shown normal harpies tanking explosions that vaporize armored soldiers, so no, you can't excuse your way out of the feat.

The statue's weight is scaled from its size(around twice to thrice as big as Kratos, who is 8'6).

The source says they "might" be, not that they were or would be, there is a key difference. It sounds informal and inconclusive.

Might be, as in if they were close to the cyclops. Once again, you're trying to excuse your way through legitimate feats. Just stop. The tone is absolutely not informal or inconclusive.

although Kratos clearly has beyond peak human durability that does not mean the sands were at that moment at a peak that they would harm humans

The lore clearly states that the sand is strong and harsh enough to strip flesh and skin off of a human being. I've already shown the images, and your word is nowhere near the lore's.

You can likely find claims of hyperbole that say even desert winds and sandstorms in reality could cause major damage. We see from your cutscene that Kratos who cannot weigh more than what, twice a human was not even moved by it.

Because of his durability.

He was launched off a building that was destroyed by the lightning, and by destroyed I mean the top was smashed, its impressive but humans can survive falling from buildings, its more likely peak human.

No, it's absolutely not. The Last Spartan tanked the fall with mere scratches. Absolutely no human can survive such a big fall, especially when they've been thrown from the building by a lightning bolt, with no damage like that. Stop downplaying.

The world of God of war is not the same as our Earth, lets make this clear, its a large flat disc as your image shows. Your image also shows us that it looks like there are multiple pillars that hold up the disc.

As per the game, there's only one pillar. This is also stated in the lore.

No, the world of God of War is at least the same size as the Earth. Mount Olympus is 13,676 kilometers tall and it's so big that the oceans, which are themselves so deep that they can eat a 500-meter titan and make him disappear under their depth, look like they have no depth at all.

Stop downplaying.

Your logic revolves around Atlas being planet destroying/moveing in strength yet he needs an amp and even then struggles to do much damage to a pillar that holds up a large disc (the GoW world). You realize Atlas is sealed by chains that have only a fewmeter long awls right? in stone. The Titans are strong but not planetary.

The chains are clearly extremely, infinitely tougher stone. You're absolutely aware of this. The chains tank Kratos's blades and need dozens of attacks in order to shatter. Once again, stop the downplay.

I've already proven the World Pillar's durability.

We see the strength of Atlas and the Titans in battle and despite fighting for their lives their not even breaking the ground around them. The force of Atlas seen here is enough to launch likely double to triple digit tons of rock rolling and cause quakes but nothing planetary or even continental. The Titans are bested by hades.

AoE is absolutely not the same as attack potency. The Tiering System makes this clear when it states "characters who can destroy a planet, or harm Planet-level characters".

The Titans are bested by Hades, whose realm is so big that it's considered immeasurable in magnitude.

By your logic, the Titans are not even Large Mountain level, because they're merely hurling really large chunks of rock at the gods. Yeah no.

Atlas balancing the world with a hand who knows what is hyperbole and not with all these claims with far more contradictary feats? Also note how it says Kratos is like a mewling baby to the strength of his thumb and forefinger? Kratos needs a downgrade, I see a lot of feats scaled from the Titans and Gods yet we know hes not up to their full strength.

Note how it says Kratos managed to hold back planet-level force.

Stop your downplay. It will never be accepted, and Matthew and i have already engaged you several times.

nice. we can do upgrade like this slowly but consistent.

please don't lock this thread really fast.

Don't worry. The thread will not be locked that fast, as many people i've talked seem to agree with at least some of my stuff. And Matthew will probably be willing to discuss this, since's he a GoW fan.

The statue is very clearly made of stone. That's a non-debatable point.

It should be easy to prove then. You do not know its mass, you do not know its make, you do not know its age. All factors required and your grand standing the Spartans efforts, they were pulling away for a fair while.

"There's no such thing as game mechanics here."

So show me, where is the cutscene of the humans tanking blows from the undead?

"The chains are clearly shown to be strong and thick enough to hold the trapdoor shut. "

Right, until a few humanoid undead break it open, why it holding the trap door shut impressive?

"I've already shown normal harpies tanking explosions that vaporize armored soldiers"

No you showed normal soldiers apparently disapearing in the explosion, I have no idea what happened o them. maybe they fell off, maybe its typical video game world clear. It does not burn or crack stone either where it lands.

"The lore clearly states that the sand is strong and harsh enough "

Their not strong enough to move a 8 ft male, at that moment in time. Where does it say the sands are always strong enough to rip skin from bone? Your failing to consider the fact they may have not been that strong at that point, the source also says it "could choke weaker men" which is hardly different from real sandstorms.

"Because of his durability. "

Durability i not strictly =/= mass.

" Absolutely no human can survive such a big fall, "

Sounds like an assertion, show me how far he fell, because it looks to me no better than double digit meters.


"No, the world of God of War is at least the same size as the Earth"

Ok prove it, because it exists on a flat disc how are you proving that the mass of that disc is equal to a sphere of a diamter almost the size of the discs greatest structure? The only feature that may scale is Mt Olympus which is large but the rest of the disc is relatively flat.

"By your logic, the Titans are not even Large Mountain level, because they're merely hurling really large chunks of rock at the gods. Yeah no."


Yes absolutely, because that is what their feats in the lore and games show without assumption. By your logic, Atlas is an idiot because despite fighting for his life he is picking up what should be nothing to him, instead of you know, lifting conteintnet sized piecies of earth and throwing it, completely crushing Hades.

Even Zeus can barely crush human made towers without at least some resistance, so yes, "barely large mountain level" is about right. It even takes him some time to break out of the tiny 10 ton+ pillar Kratos struggles to land on him.


"Note how it says Kratos managed to hold back planet-level force."

No it never says anything like that. Your using head canon to support it.


"Stop your downplay"

Its not downplay, I am using the lore to counter your head canon. Your making too many assumptions, I am pretty sure the site does not want its profiles riddled with assumptions that are not supported anywhere in the series and directly countered by facts and circumstances throughout.

Okay. My rebuttal will be downplay-crushing.

It should be easy to prove then. You do not know its mass, you do not know its make, you do not know its age. All factors required and your grand standing the Spartans efforts, they were pulling away for a fair while.

Absolutely and astoundigly wrong.

The statue is at least made of stone. This is completely and utterly non-debatable by its appearance alone, and also the way it fragments agter being pulled by the Spartans.

And absolutely not, they weren't pulling for a fair while, they were simply catching their distance. This is made more than clear by the Spartan General giving them orders.

"That's right man; now pull" and the statue proceeds to fall in a matter of seconds.

The Spartans have superhuman strength and speed. This is absolutely not debatable, and other members like EliminatorVenom have already agreed with me on this via PM. You will not change anyone's mind with your downplay.

So show me, where is the cutscene of the humans tanking blows from the undead?

God of War 2, when Kratos's is in the Bog of the Forgotten and sees two soldiers keeping up with two legionnaries on a ledge in the distance.

Right, until a few humanoid undead break it open, why it holding the trap door shut impressive?

Humanoid undead with Large-Building level attack potency~~

No you showed normal soldiers apparently disapearing in the explosion, I have no idea what happened o them. maybe they fell off, maybe its typical video game world clear. It does not burn or crack stone either where it lands.

There's absolutely no evidence they fell off or simply were "cleared", so the standard assumption is that they were killed by the blast, as in disintegrated.

The fire blast clearly makes stone crack around it. Stop.

Their not strong enough to move a 8 ft male, at that moment in time. Where does it say the sands are almost strong enough to rip skin from bone? Your failing to consider the fact they may have not been that strong at that point,

Absolutely and astoundingly wrong again. I showed the images in the OP.You have just proven that you don't care about even reading the upgrades, you just go straight to downplaying. Wow.

Wrong again. The sands are always that strong until stated otherwise. The Desert of the Lost Souls only appears in the first game.

Sounds like an assertion, show me how far he fell, because it looks to me no better than double digit meters.

He fell several dozen meters, after being blasted by a lightning bolt from Zeus at point-blank range. Absolutely no human would tank that, especially when they can get felled by the wind from a cyclops's club. Lol.

Ok prove it, because it exists on a flat disc how are you proving that the mass of that disc is equal to a sphere? The only feature that may scale is Mt Olympus which is large but the rest of the disc is relatively flat.

The oceans on God of War are so deep that they're capable of engulfing a 500-meter Titan like a pebble, and yet Mt. Olympus, and by virtue the Earth, is so large that the same oceans look like they have absoluely no depth at all compared to it.

The Desert of Lost Souls is so massive in span that Cronos,who is stated by the developers to be 500 meters in this slide show (15 of 192), never managed to crawl out.

The default assumption when debating a verse is that the Earth, the moon, and etc. re equal to their real life versions unless proven otherwise, which you can't .a

Yes absolutely, because that is what their feats in the lore and games show without assumption. By your logic, Atlas is an idiot because despite fighting for his life he ispicking up what should be nothing to him, instead of you know, lifting conteintnet sized piecies of earth and throwing it, completely crushing Ares.

You have absolutely no knowledge of the lore if you're actually telling me that the gods are Large Mountain level.

I have already compiled the evidence on the OP, and you have done absolutely nothing to disprove it. AoE(area of effect) is not the same as Attack Potency. Your point about him not lifting continent-sized pieces of the Earth is thus useless.

No it never says anything like that. Your using head canon to support it.

Absolutely wrong. It flat-out says that Kratos held bakc a hand that could balance the world. I'm really embarrassed with the fact that i have to point this out.

Your downplay will never be accepted among members of the wiki. Matthew and I have already debunked your "GoW is peak human" stuff in the other thread. Meanwhile, my upgrades have already been accepted by some notorious members like EliminatorVenom, and are being evaluated by other people.

Its not downplay, I am using the lore to counter your head canon.

You know nothing about the lore.

Imma have to agree with Kep on this one.

I also think that Kepekley seems to make better sense, but I would much prefer to wait for Matthew to evaluate this.

"Absolutely and astoundigly wrong."

You say this then give me theories, without further proof to cover your claims. At best you can assert, where is the argument here?

"Spartan General giving them orders"

Yes exactly like at the very beginning of the scene where he also says "pull", including while Kratos is approaching. We have no idea how long its taken them to loosen the Statue, and that is 4 men pulling from the legs on a statue you have no idea how long its been there, how durable it is etc.

"God of War 2, when Kratos's is in the Bog of the Forgotten and sees two soldiers keeping up with two legionnaries on a ledge in the distance."

So video and time stamp? You say "keeping up" now, not tanking blows from?

"Humanoid undead with Large-Building level attack potency"

Proof?

"There's absolutely no evidence they fell off or simply were "cleared", so the standard assumption is that they were killed by the blast, as in disintegrated."

I am glad your making progress, you admitted your assuming. There is no more evidence for disintegration than they were launched. We know distegration is a ridiculous high end to assume, especially when no other damage was noted before the soldiers disapearing. Also remind me, who was the lady near the harpies? She looked none the worse for wear and was not far from the blast either.

"The fire blast clearly makes stone crack around it. Stop."

Not seeing it, nor any damage to what appears to be wooden panneling right next to the blast.

"The sands are always that strong until stated otherwise. "


Another assertion, prove it. You have yet to show the ability to discount any of my contradictions.


"He fell several dozen meters"

Can you stop re-asserting your claim over and over please? I want you to show me proof he fell "several dozen" meters, I just watched the cinematic, we do not see where he hits the ground.

"The oceans on God of War are so deep that they're capable of engulfing a 500-meter Tita "

500 meters is nothing to the depths of any sea...and the sea is on the upper mantle of earth.

"never managed to crawl out."

So? He crawled around slowly and never got out, who knows if hes even going in the right direction or if he ever could escape. If i recall it was part of the lament Zeus put him through.

"The default assumption when debating a verse is that the Earth, the moon, and etc. re equal to their real life versions unless proven otherwise"

Where is this said? Also thanks for giving me an image that shows the GoW world is a flat disc nothing like Earth.


"I have already compiled the evidence on the OP,"

There is little evidence, mostly your own assumptions on what you think it means. I have countered it quite easily, you have no answer to why Kratos struggles with small pillars, why Zeus takes time to crush human buildings even when he is at his godly size, you have no argument against why Atlas who is apparently planetary can only pick up pebbles and cause minor quakes etc...andis then wrestled by hades who does not even crack the ground as he drags him helpless to the floor.

All contradictions. Likely more beisdes.

"Absolutely wrong. It flat-out says that Kratos held bakc a hand that could balance the world"

No, your not even reading your own sources, it says he is like a mewling babe between his thumb and forefinger, he does not even have to contend with Atlas' hand, the thumb and forefinger are enough to leave him described as little more than a baby.

" Matthew and I"

Youve not debunked anything, I only hope Matthew can debate/discuss this properly because you re-stating your intiial claims over and over as if that is further evidence is most tiresome.

Perhaps matthew will support these feats better.

"You know nothing about the lore."

Considering I can read your sources, which seems to be more than you have done considering the above couple of points I must know a fair amount. I have told you already, I have played the games, so i know plenty of the lore.

I'm here to clean some misconceptions about my point of view.

• Misconception 1: There are no planet-level feats in the series

Rebuttal: This is incorrect. There are plenty of feats which suggest Planet-level rating. For one, Atlas holding the world and Helios being capable of destroying the world with his Sun Power, as well as the World Pillar stuff, Gaia's novel feats, Atlas's novel feats, and lore confirmation of said stuff.

• Misconception 2: The gods and titans are unable to cause any Planet-level damage.

Rebuttal: This is due to the fact that AoE(area of effect, also called range) is not the same as Attack Potency. For instance, Helios is able to destroy the world with his power, but his AoE is actually star-level, as he is stated to be the Sun itself. Similarly, the top-tier titan and gods don't have the AoE to destroy the planet with few exceptions, but they are capable of Planet-level feats within their range.

• Misconception 3: The God of War Earth is flat, which invalidates the feats being Planet-level.

Rebuttal: As shown above, the God of War Earth is, in fact, flat. However, the standard assumption when discussing a verse with unknown(not really, i'll shot it below) dimensions is that the size of the planet, the size of the moon, the size of the ocean and etc. are equal to the Real World.

Furthermore, we know the geology to be similar, since Zeus confirmedly hurled Mount Etna at Typho , and the Underworld is stated to be immeasurable in size. This is supported by the fact that we don't even see its borders in the concept art.

The Desert of Lost Souls has sand dunes that are even larger than Cronos , which would be impossible on real life, since the tallest sand dunes are around 300m. This is further proof that the GOW Earth is at least equal, if not slightly bigger than the real world.

"For one, Atlas holding the world"

At best he perfoemd the role of the world pillar, as I said before your image of the world appears to have multiple formations helping him hold it up, the remains of the pillar hes standing atop seems to have some prongs still touching the rock.

"top-tier titan and gods don't have the AoE to destroy the planet with few exceptions, but they are capable of Planet-level feats within their range."

What are you talking about? I am talking about force, their force output is enough to be mountain level at best, launching large mounds of rock, causing quakes etc. And their physical strength, as shown when hades grapples them is not much higher either.


Zeus throwing mount Etna

When is this stated? How does this prove the whole flat disc is the same size/mass of earth? All we know from the lore is that the GoW world is on a disc, much like old myths allegedly suggested which is unsurpising.


"which would be impossible on real life, since the tallest sand dunes are around 300m"

How would a 500 m tall dune be impossible if we have 300m tall ones? At best that proves the desert has somehow gathered sand for longer periods of time than our own, honestly even that is a stretch, nobody knows how that sand built up.


You have a lot of assertions and opinions Kep but there are many contradictions to directly counter them in the lore and cutscenes of the game. The gods, the titans, kratos and his enemies are not ever shown doing planet level destruction or forces are often beaten or struggle with far far less as shown in some of my sources.

This is just a repeat of the old thread, sigh...

@Matthew

So this is not acceptable then?

I already accept Planet level God of War or something and I was going to make my old thread. But once again VoidReaper is derailing things.

Okay. VoidReaper, I would appreciate if you could immediately drop the subject.

Apologies, I thought this was a discussion thread for everyone. Ill drop it.

Thanks.

I could certainly see several characters being upgraded, by the way. The question is just to what.

Okay. What do you think of the examples listed above?

You say this then give me theories, without further proof to cover your claims. At best you can assert, where is the argument here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

I don't have to assert anything. The Statue of Ares is clearly made of stone; this is proven by its appearance and how it is torn apart by the pressure. I don't have to prove this because it's self-evident; even the sound when the statue collapses suggest a stone/concrete frame.

Yes exactly like at the very beginning of the scene where he also says "pull", including while Kratos is approaching. We have no idea how long its taken them to loosen the Statue, and that is 4 men pulling from the legs on a statue you have no idea how long its been there, how durable it is etc.

Nope. You're still wrong.

The men are merely positioning themselves; this is further proven when the Spartans demolish the statue in four seconds flat after the Spartan General tells them to pull with full strength. The statue even fragments.

I absolutely do not have to prove "how long it's been there" or "how durable it is", because we know the statue is massive and at least made of stone. By simple logic and virtue of Occam's razor, it'd weigh hundreds of tons.

The amount of leaps you have to make in order to even try to begin and disprove my arguments...

So video and time stamp? You say "keeping up" now, not tanking blows from?

https://youtu.be/uSEJfVMqYok?t=10686

I have already proven humans on God of War are at least Building-level by feats and Occam's razor. Either you get evidence(which you won't) or just concede. Which you won't as well.

Where is this said? Also thanks for giving me an image that shows the GoW world is a flat disc nothing like Earth.

Not said. It's the default assumption for debating a verse. Every single being here agrees with it except you.

I've already debunked that.

There is little evidence, mostly your own assumptions on what you think it means. I have countered it quite easily,

So far you have countered absolutely nothing. I can(and i have) easily refuted all of your claims, and you need to make absurd leaps in logic to even START challeging my evidence, which requires nothing but standard verse assumption, in the first place.

you have no answer to why Kratos struggles with small pillars, why Zeus takes time to crush human buildings even when he is at his godly size, you have no argument against why Atlas who is apparently planetary can only pick up pebbles and cause minor quakes etc...andis then wrestled by hades who does not even crack the ground as he drags him helpless to the floor.

AoE = attack potency. This is part of the standard assumptions for a verse. I've already debunked all of that, and the community agrees with it since GOW characters are listed as Multi-Continental.

Kratos "struggling" with small pillars is pure gameplay mechanics, not feats. It's meant to make the game longer. If Kratos ran through buildings and simply smashed everything instead of solving puzzles, the game would be 30-minutes long.

He tanks and lifts Cronos's hand, kicks a giant rock like it is peanut butter, lifts the Colossus of Rhodes, which weighed at least 225 tons, fights back against a giant tentacle from the Furies, and more.

By the way, Hades needed the help of Poseidon, who paralyzed Atlas with his thunderstorm powers. So you've been caught lying once again.

No, your not even reading your own sources, it says he is like a mewling babe between his thumb and forefinger, he does not even have to contend with Atlas' hand, the thumb and forefinger are enough to leave him described as little more than a baby.

No. It's stated that Kratos's full-strength is enough to push back Atlas's hand. It takes all of his strength, but he is able to do it. You're absolutely wrong onde again.

And there is an enormous power disparty between each game.According to WoG , Atlas and Cronos are close peers in strength, with Atlas only having a slight edge, and yet Kratos literally tanks Cronos's hand.

Youve not debunked anything, I only hope Matthew can debate/discuss this properly because you re-stating your intiial claims over and over as if that is further evidence is most tiresome.

Wrong. You got temp-banned for trolling in the old thread. That's how compelling your arguments were to other people.

@Antvasima

@Matthew Schroeder

I'm willing to answer all your questions about my evidence as fast as i can. You just have to ask it.

i think we should consider this upgrade Asap, since we will deal with the new GoW game.

Superhuman Spartan Soldiers are fine. Even undead soldiers are stated to be superhuman and both the Spartan and Athenian Soldiers can fight them, coupled with the feats posted above.

I could see Demigod Kratos being High 7-C based on a calc by FanOfRPGs. He also fought the furies which could create a giant whirpool that sucked ships and when they all died their massive temple collapsed.

Speed is at least Sub-Relativistic via calcs I made. Unsure about FTL.

God feats in case anyone is curious:

• Ares raises four Mountains (6-C KE)
• Zeus throws Mount Etna (6-C KE since a similar feat for Percy Jackson wielded this)
• Poseidon shaking the entire planet with a thought (High 6-C)
• Poseidon's death causing a Planetary Flood (6-A)
• Demeter removing spring and killing all plant life (Unknown, probably in the Tier 6)
• Hera's death killing all plants on Earth (Same)
• Helios' power being stated to be capable of destroying the world (Likely High 6-A)
• Helios' death leading to the whole world being covered in dark clouds (Likely High 6-A too)
• Atlas lifting the Earth's crust (6-A)
• Persephone's death damaging part of the World Pillar, which held up the Earth's crust (Somewhere in Tier 6)

Even if I'm uncertain about Planet level, 6-A or so even for mid-tier Gods is more than justifiable.

Actually the above tweet said the novels are secondary canon so I think as long as nothing contradicts the game then it should be fine

i am just not sure at the part "world". Since the GoW world is not like ours (flat) we need better accuracy how big Gow World is.

Plus World is kinda a loose word to begin with

The God of War world has been portrayed as flat up until Ascension, which shows an image of a round planet and has realistic stars and nebulae in space during the opening.

shows an image of a round planet ? which one ? i dont remember that.

Matthew Schroeder said:

The God of War world has been portrayed as flat up until Ascension, which shows an image of a round planet and has realistic stars and nebulae in space during the opening.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is not related to God of War. A WoG stated that it's an easter egg to another game Sony's making.

Atlas wasn't lifting the Earth's crust, he was lifting the entire world as shown by the concept arts and the feats i posted.

I think that the characters should become High 6-A scaling from Helios.

Matthew Schroeder said:

http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/GoW-581x360.jpg

Click to expand...

bruno said, that easter egg is not related to GoW game. i think i already mentioned about this.

I'm mean there already scaled to Atlas anyway shouldn't you just keep that?

Matthew Schroeder said:

I think that the characters should become High 6-A scaling from Helios.

Click to expand...

Why not baseline 5-B?

If you have any questions, just list them here.

EDIT: I'm aware of the WOG evidence that Atlas was lifting the crust. However, that's flat-out wrong since several sources on the games, the novels and the comics suggest that Atlas was lifting the entire world. So WOG is not always reliable.

Furthermore, the WoG who confirmed it was the director of GoW Ascension, Todd Papy, and he took a huge amount of liberties with the rest of the series, so his word isn't 100% reliable when it comes to games like GoW II, III, Chains of Olympus and etc.

Kepekley23 said:

Matthew Schroeder said:

The God of War world has been portrayed as flat up until Ascension, which shows an image of a round planet and has realistic stars and nebulae in space during the opening.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is not related to God of War. A WoG stated that it's an easter egg to another game Sony's making.
Atlas wasn't lifting the Earth's crust, he was lifting the entire world as shown by the concept arts and the feats i posted.

Click to expand...

Actually according to concept artistic. That concept art is not accurately potrayed GoW World in the game. He also said "it is really hard to draw entire landscape". But GoW world is still flat tho.

Yeah. However, Atlas does lift the entire world. The WoG who confirmed he was lifting the crust was the director of GoW Ascension, and he took a huge amount of liberties with the rest of the series, so his word isn't 100% reliable, just like that guy who "confirmed" Mundus was universal.

His word also contradicts the game itself, as you see on my original post.