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Possible Fire Emblem 6/7 revisions

TheGatememer

TheGatememer

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So the FE characters from 6 and 7 got downgraded from high 6-A to around 8-C/Unknow. This was due to the fact that the Ending Winter was caused by both the Legendary weapons AND the dragons.

And according to the FE Wiki, "The Eight Legends used the newly-crafted Legendary Weapons during the Scouring, only to find that the power of the weapons clashing against the dragons was so great that the laws of physics were horribly distorted."

And according to another quote from the wiki: "Fearing that the weapons' power may inadvertently trigger the apocalypse, the Eight Legends hid the legendary weapons in secret locations after the Scouring, where they were magically sealed by Bramimond."

This implies that the power of the weapons clashing AGAINST the dragons caused the Ending Winter. It shouldn't be Unknown, since this also implies that the two are basically either equivalent, or canceling eachother out. So the Legendary Weapons should be around half the power of the Ending Winter.

According to Jahn, "The laws of nature started to collapse. Snow began to fall in summer. Stars shone in the middle of day."

This probably means that the stars were warped close enough so that they become visible, but far away enough so that the solar systems don't collide.

So to summarize all this, shouldn't this mean that the characters should be around. 4-A?
 
Sounds logical enough forme,but it might just be a illumination feat.

I think calcing just how strong the Fire Dragons from FE7 are by reducing Elibe to ash over time is and then using that to calc the Sword of seals, which was stated to be stronger than all 8 divine weapons.
 
I find it unlikely to be an illumination feat, since it has been stated that the ending winter sapped much of the potential magic energy out of the universe. Since that is the case, I doubt the illuminations would last very long.

As for the "reducing elibe to ash over time", my main issue with that is that it happened over time, and not instantly, or in a short amount of time.
 
If the stars brighting up can be calced or confrimed with clear scans i am all for it.


And reducing a multi-continental sized place like Elibe to ashes should still be around that level or in the high end of continent level.
 
Alright, while I don't have the exact calculations, I was able to calculate part of it. But much of this is based off assumptions, so take this with a grain of salt.

For this, we are using our solar system, as we don't exactly know what the solar system is like in their universe. We do however know, that their planet is similar in the sense that it is within the habitable zone. We will also be using the nearest star, Alpha Centauri.

The Alpha Centauri is around 4.367 light years away from Earth, or about 41,316,187,000,000 km.

The Width of the solar system is around 287,360,000,000 in km

So subtract the width of the solar system from the distance of the star and you get around 41,028,727,000,000 km travelled.

The Scouring and the Ending winter happened around the year -20 in Elibe. Since we didn't get an exact date, I used a year for my calculations. This is due to the fact that once the humans got their hands on the legendary weapons, they once again were able to fight back against the dragons, which shortly there after, caused the ending winter. The humans soon wiped out the dragons due to the fact that the dragons can no longer maintain their form. In other entries of the series, we can see the characters move across their continents in a matter of months, so while the entries are not part of the same universe, it gives us an idea about how they could move around and about. Given all this, the ending winter likely happened within a year of the legendary weapons clashing against the dragons.

Anyways, we divide the distance travelled by the light years in km and we see that the stars would have had to move around 4.33661631963 times the speed of light. and.... thats about as far as I got. I have no idea how to calculate further, im sorry.
 
I was hoping for some statements from Yahn or other wise characters from the games that stated this as fact.

Regardless, another thing you might want to look into is Aureola. Which is a beam of light that is shot from the sun to earth in 10 seconds, that should also be MFTL+.

Aside of that, i think you need to take some screencaps of when that is stated in FE6
 
I'll come back with more elaborate stuff, but we don't consider other wikis to be reliable sources of information. But, Aureola is not Massively FTL+. It's shown speed of light properties, but no one actually dodges the beam of light in the animation; when dodging animation shows, they simply step out of the light before the intensity grows too much. And the "Stars showing midday" was passed as a bad translation and flowery language.

Although, I would like Tier 6 to come back, JSW debunked the Ending Winter stuff. And the Fire Dragons burning the Continent to ashes in a month is not a Tier 6 feat. It's not implied to oneshot, and burning to ashes can be done through chain reactions overtime.
 
Dark649 said something about that here, and also using Google Translate is unreliable. Everything about the Ending Winter was also discussed here. The actual game and a wise character such as Jahn would also take more priority than the FE wiki.
 
I think the star thing was actually shown in the fan translation and the thread show that google translate was used to prove that the fan translattion was valid and accurate enough.
 
It doesn't change the fact that it was a metaphor for victory was coming as said by Dark649. Still, the 4-A proposal is still whacky.
 
Even if we don't take the wiki into account, Jahn still stated that snow fell in the summer, and stars shone in the middle of the day. Also how is it a metaphor for victory? I haven't found anything that implies that it is a metaphor. It was just Jahn talking to Roy about the ending winter, as we see here at around 6:16 . Furthermore, we see later in the video that the Divine Weapons were sealed away, which implies that it was a major contributer to the ending winter. If the dragons were the major contributer instead of the divine weapons, then there wouldn't be much of a reason to seal away the divine weapons in the first place, since the dragons were nearly wiped out during the scouring.
 
That still sounds rather hyperbolic. Also, he still outright said on the other thread that the Ending Winter was caused by the Divine Weapons and the Dragons clashing. It was also implied to be a chain reaction, and the blizzards were causing devestations on both sides. And besides, making stars shine midday is no where near 4-A. But I doubt even that happened. The Divine Weapons were also stated to have grown weaker over time.
 
I don't quite understand what you mean by hyperbolic. Could you also give me a source on where it implies that it is a chain reaction? Also, is there another possible explanation for the stars shining midday? Because I find it unlikely that the atmosphere was affected in any way. The Divine Weapons were stated to have grown weaker over time. They may have retained their power before the events of The Binding Blade. Besides, this doesn't change the fact that the Binding Blade has always been far stronger than any of the Divine Weapons. And there is nothing implying that the Binding Blade got weaker overtime.
 
JSW explained it here using the in game scripts. It's still implied the combined might of the 8 divine weapons and the entire race of dragons are what caused the Ending Winter. This quote is also important Do not worry. The weapons do not seem to have as much power as they did in the past. They are unable to bring about such a disaster agai.
 
I think you are just confused of the actual feat being discussed here.

Yahn said that the SoS is steonger than the Holy Weapons. Making the Sos at least 2 timws stronger than a hlly weapon.(if we assume that Yahn only meant it to be stronger than one of the divinde weapons on their peak, since he only had experience of the peak holy weapons's powers)

The actual multi continental feat is the Sword of Seals being 2x-8x stronger than Durandal (which was weaker than in its Ending Winter Prime), who one shotted Ninian, who one shotted 2 fire dragons, who could destroy Elibe into ashes over time.

And all dragons are comparable to their durability
 
Ending Winter Durandal (The one Yahn is scalling the current SoS to) > FE7 Durandal (which one shotted Ninian who one shotted two fire dragons) >= FE6 Durandal.

Also, there is no statement that the SoS has gotten any weaker, since it is not considered one of the 8 holy weapons.

And again, the dragons are all comparable tl their durability as seen with Athos and the raw gameplay itself
 
None of the War Dragons are anywhere near as powerful as the three that came out of the Dragon's Gate. And this can be easily proven if you look at the plot. First of all, even Nergal considered those three Dragons to be more dangerous than he was, which is interesting considering that Athos' Forblaze didn't do much except damage his eye. Not only that, after Nergal was defeated, the heroes were considered unable to stand a chance against those three Dragons despite having 4 Divine Weapons.

Ninian has destroyed two Dragons and weakened the third, but she appears to be an obvious glass cannon. She collapsed when she used her blizzard technique, and even the weakened 3rd Dragon was once again a challenge for the combined might of Eliwood, Hector, Lyn, and Athos. Before you say "Game mechanics", the narratives also implied that the Dragon was tough, plus Athos even died during the battle. The Dragons being able to burn the continent within a month would be no where near High 6-A since Ifrit (Final Fantasy XV) got his High 6-A rating via burning the surface of the Earth to ashes within seconds. If it required an entire month for three dragons to do the same thing to just one continent; I'm pretty sure that's millions of times weaker.

Also, the idea that "Sword of Seals is stronger than the Divine Weapons." it's true that Sword of Seals is stronger than them, but there's no proof that it's stronger than the combined might of two Divine weapons let alone all 8 of them. It's safest to only say it's stronger than them individually. Another reason to suggest that SoS isn't really all that much stronger than the Divine Weapons, there's the fact that Roy with SoS was not that much stronger than Zephiel using Exaccus. It could be argued that Base Zephiel is technically much stronger and than Roy, and/or that he's simply a much better swordsman and that having a Sword that's X times stronger was the only reason he won.

Furthermore, if we're going to assume that the SoS is stronger than the combined might of the 8 Divine Weapons, it only further invalidates the potency of the Divine Weapons. Because the Sword of Seals was also used alongside the Divine Weapons; Hartmut dual wielded the SoS and Exaccus against the dragons remember. So Ending Winter was caused by the combined might of the 8 Divine Weapons, the Sword of Seals, and the entire race of Dragons. And much like the Dragon Balls or Chaos Emeralds, the Divine Weapons could be argued to have nowhere near as much power unless all 8 of them are united.

Also, I see way too much Deja Vu on this thread.
 
There's no reason to assume the entire land mass; only the surface. That's the same thing as assuming Ifrit burned the entire planet literally all the way down to the core.
 
That is confirmation bias.

Regardless, since the dragons scale to their durability as seen with Athos surviving two attacks from them before passing away instead of just dying instantly, and all the encounters with manaketes in FE6, the scaling is valid. Even if you consider turning a continent into ash to be lower than High 6-A in the long run.

The SoS should at least be 2x stronger than any of the holy weapons because of Yahn's statement.

Regardless, here is a playthru of FE7 in japanese, at 14:38, Athos states that the dragon gate does indeed connect other "worlds", so that might be interesting to discuss further in another thread, but regardless, instead of using the word of surface, the kanji used there imply the raw landmass of the continent is going to be "turned into ashes", also he actually said it wont even ttake one month for the dragon to destroy the continent, so the timeframe, while still over time, it is implied to be much shorter than a whole month.


https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm35...=6&ss_id=426a1d5e-ad52-4546-ac23-b5a5f50f143f
 
No need to get so hostile or accusative.

We're well aware that Athos can take hits from the Dragon's Gate Fire Dragons; but those same Dragons don't have any concrete feats to begin with. It's far too assumptive to assume the dig to the bottom of the ocean to burn the entire landmass. Also, burning to ashes =/= vaporization. Plus, fires often naturally spread via a chain reaction. Google Translate is also not reliable.

Yahn's statement doesn't specify that, only individually. Connecting worlds isn't an attack potency feat at all, but simply a dimensional portal. Also, most people use the world Continent to simply refer to the parts that are above sea level, and burning something to ashes has zero implication that anything below sea level was getting burned.

Also, I could use a timeframe divider to calculate the feat, but the result probably won't even exceed Island level.
 
No, no. the whole connecting worlds thing might be interesting for another thread Not this one.


---

Regardless, the kanji used implies Athos meant to say that the continent itself (landmass) would be destroyed, and he is a pretty wise guy all things considered.

And we do have feats in this wiki that are done over time/potential , like the god tiers from paper mario.

Regardless, assuming the original script's wording, id say a simple 6-A would be the most reasonable for the FE7 cast based on the statements.

And Yahn is never implied to be 1.-refereing to the weakened current holy weapons instead of the prime ones that caused the ending winter 2.-or that the SoS is just stronger than one of them, when he already said it was the holy weapons (plural) fighting the dragons that caused the ending winter itself.


So, i still push for a at least 6-A for SoS.
 
Athos is wise yes, but I doubt he's concerned about the body of land underseas getting burned let alone "Vaporized". The Paper Mario example is false equivalency and would be 2-B regardless of time-frame. It's done via a Void that expands endless and is stated to have enough power to "Destroy all existence". Which the entirely cosmology of the Mario Multiverse is vast in which it grows endlessly and entire Universes are being born every time a person, animal, alien, deity, or afterlife resident goes to sleep. Which it would have to destroy the multiverse faster than it grows which would already be massive degrees of 2-B either way.

This does not quite to a finite sized landmass with a fairly static size and shape. And rather than a void that expands, it's just three dragons roaming the continent and burning the Continent forest by forest and village by village by breathing fire everywhere it goes. If you'd like a proper calculation, I could back scale from standard surface busting.

183.24 Petatons to one-shot all continents. I'll high ball it by assuming Elibe is the size of Asia which has 1/11.4410226612 times the surface area of Earth. Time frame is a month or 2592000 seconds. And it took 3 dragons so I should also divine that by 3. 183.24 Petatons/11.4410226612/2592000/3 = 2.05967731318 Gigatons or High 7-A. Still iffy on this method since spreading fires is much lower than nuking the Continent and is prone to being considered chain reactions.

The Divine Weapons were literally at their peak when they caused the Ending Winter alongside the other aforementioned stuff. Yes, it's stronger than the Divine Weapons, but no proof that it's superior to them combined. Only that between each of the Divine Weapons and Sealed Sword, the Sealed Sword is the strongest of the 9. But, being the strongest =/= 2 times stronger than the rest. There's also still no Tier 6 feat performed by a single divine weapon that has yet to be proven.
 
Sorry haven't read this thread in a while until now. I don't quite see what you sent disproves my claims (apart from the 4-A claim I made, which I will admit is false.) Also, I haven't really seen another possible explanation for the stars shining midday. Because of this, I think that the Divine weapons should be placed at minimum, 4-C.

The combined power of the Divine weapons and the dragons caused the ending winter, that has already been established. Since the weapons were a major contributer, its safe to assume that each of the weapons played a role in the ending winter. In the ending winter, it was described having "stars shining in the middle of the day." Keep in mind that there are on average, thousands of stars visible every night. This should make each of the Divine Weapons at least 4-C, as this would have to mean thousands of stars were warped at an unknown speed. There are similar feats to this on the wiki, like the celestial towers from terraria that share similar feats.

If this is turned down, I suggest that we at least make another profile for all the divine weapons combined, and make that at least 4-C, as this includes all of their power combined, kind of like the Hylian Knights profile.
 
Celestial Towers do legit have a demonstration of moving the moon closer to the earth which was actually seen. Here, it's just a vague statement. Yes, there are thousands of stars in the sky, but there's no proof of the sun or moon being effected; or literally anything outside the planet's atmosphere for that matter. Hylian Knights are High 7-A individually because their physically comparable to Gerudos and Iron Knuckles who can survive these bombs at point blank range. Not their combined might.
 
Well, do post a scan of that.

Or if you find some japanese script for FE6, we could have slmeone translate ot for us. (Because it is super convenient that they NOW thing google translate is not good enough but say the translations might be faulty. Funny.)
 
Well I'm actually Japanese. And while im not completely fluent, I can get a basic understanding of what it says. Ill try looking for a script.
 
He basically says "Right you are. If they are unleashed onto this world... It won't take a month to turn this continent to ash!" Also, while this is somewhat irrelevant, I think google translate should be allowed to be used. I find that in google translate, while there are some errors, it gives you a basic understanding/translation.
 
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