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The Ending Winter

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JustSomeWeirdo

JustSomeWeirdo

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I'd like to apologise to those of you who are fond of the Elibe games (FE6/7), but this must be done, and when I'm done, half of FE's Top Tiers will still exist

To put it simply, the Divine Weapons and everyone who scales, should be placed at Unknow (for now)

Now let's get to the long version, once again, my evidence comes from the game's script itself

The Combined Forces of the Ending Winter
While I agree that the weapons were the cause of the Ending Winter....it just wasn't the weapons

"What do you mean it wasn't just the weapons?" You may be asking, but it's simple, let me show you...

Jahn: "The most powerful and potent were chosen out of the humans to wield their newly crafted weapons. They came and charged this temple. However, when the immense power of the weapons and our power clashed near Bern, something unexpected happened."

Roy: "What happened?"

Jahn: "The laws of nature started to collapse. Snow began to fall in mid summer. Stars shone in the middle of day…"

Roy: "Is that the Ending Winter? I heard that that happened because you Dragons unleashed too much power into the world…"

Did you see that? If not, let me show you...

"when the immense power of the weapons and our power clashed"

"the weapons and our power"

What Jahn is saying here, is that the Ending Winter was caused by the weapons AND the dragons.... meaning it was also powered by an ENTIRE ARMY OF DRAGONS.... it's impossible to find the value the weapons scale to... unfortunately

Why Trust Jah
He's a primary source, he fought during the Scouring, and on top of it he doesn't even seem like he cares about the event enough to lie about it, even Roy supports it when he says "Then… The Divine Weapons were sealed away so as to not let such a disaster happen again? Then all those traps that protected them were to warn us…"

Even if we say he's lying, then we have to accept what the humans say, "Dragons did it"....so it's either the dragons or dragons + eight, so either way it was powered by the dragons

Conclusion
I hate to say it, but everyone who scales from the Ending Winter should get placed at Unknow even Hector RIP
 
Holy shit, a certain someone who thinks all these characters are Massively FTL+ is going to be extra pissed off that Elibe will be the weakest Fire Emblem universe.

I was about to disagree heavily, but now I'm somewhat neutral. Though, I should add that the 8 Divine Weapons are still half of it at bare minimum IMO, with the entire Dragon Race being the other half. The 8 Divine Weapons were still the stronger half of the armies fighting. Roy does legit also have his legit Tier 6 feat via shaking the Continent of Elibe. So at worst, I think Divine Weapons are still Continent level+ with the weakened FE 7 cast losing the "+" sign.

However, I'd prefer to hear input from the others. Speaking of which, should we highlight this thread if it's such a big downgrade?
 
MFTL+ and Moon level with a side of Universal Reality Warping, you mea

I also think it's more described as a case of Reality Warping No, this does not mean give every single dragon and divine weapon user Reality Warping, either way I'll just debunk it, with Jahn literally stating that the laws of nature collapsed and the "order of nature" changed and how it forced dragons to become manaketes/take human form and use dragonstones

I also disagree with the Divine Weapons being half of it and then every single dragon that fought being the other half all together given that Jahn survived the Scouring (albeit wounded), I'd actually say Unknow is more accurate, especially given that the weapons are weakened by FE6/7 by yet another unknown amount. Jahn surviving The Scouring is consistent with him fighting Roy and co. with the Divine Weapons (he even states that they have the weapons in their hands when they meet)

About highlighting, it would bring more attention to the thread, and it's a drop from High 6-A/6-A to Unknown, I'd say go ahead and highlight it if you want to
 
Speaking of Ike, he kinda needs a Radiant Dawn key but I'll get to that later

Also this is going surprisingly well
 
Nah, Lucina is still the best girl to me. She is the Insert countless number of greats granddaughter of the Legendary Hero King. Though, Ike and Hector are both really awesome.

We're waiting for the Rex Bolt calc to be accepted first also.
 
They would still be 6-A to High 6-A by scalig to Eliwood´s FE7 durandal. The Fire Dragon from FE7, who was stated by Athos to be able to turn Elibe to ashes (vaporization) in a month, and Ninian one shotted 2 of them, and Eliwood with the weakened Durandal still one shotted her.


So, by scaling, every Weakened Divine Weapon would be from around that range, and as far as i know, Sword of Seals is strongerr than at least 2 of them in their Prime becuase the SoS was never stated to have gotten weakerr over time annd Yahn was talking about when Hartmut sealed FE6 Final Boss dragon girl whose name is dont remember, which is right after the Ending Winter. (Aka Prime Divine Weapons)
 
Asuka the Demonic Empress said:
They would still be 6-A to High 6-A by scalig to Eliwood´s FE7 durandal. The Fire Dragon from FE7, who was stated by Athos to be able to turn Elibe to ashes (vaporization) in a month, and Ninian one shotted 2 of them, and Eliwood with the weakened Durandal still one shotted her.


So, by scaling, every Weakened Divine Weapon would be from around that range, and as far as i know, Sword of Seals is strongerr than at least 2 of them.
Click to expand...
That's nowhere near 6-A.
 
Destroying Elibe in a month still sounds like an unspecified time frame, and there aren't really anything outside of assumptions. Piece by piece destruction isn't 6-A let alone High 6-A. By that logic, Medeus and Grima would be High 6-A via ruining the earth. Roy shaking the continent on the other hand might be better, but I want to hear what Reppuzan thinks.
 
Destroying Elibe in a month still sounds like an unspecified time frame

Aside from that, it was stated it would be able to turnn it to ashes., So comparing the Fire Drragons to "Runing the world" (aka. who the **** knows what they did exactly.) is flat out wrong.

Not to mention that the continennt was still there even in Future Past. So Grima didnt destroy anything, just killed people and burned villages and stuff.
 
Ifrit (Final Fantasy) is High 6-A for turning the whole world's surface into ashes instantly. I cant believe the same feat applied to a continent in a month is scalable to that.
 
I noticed this thread, and the statement of Athos is that the Fire Dragons, not one individually can reduce the continent will be ash in less than a month. The only decent feat is Roy shaking the continent.
 
So yeah, over time.

But we cannnot ignore the fact that Ninian´s dragon race is far stronger than the Fire Dragonns by being able to one shot two of them.

So Ninian should be at least 2x 1 Fire Dragon (who would be able to turn the Multi Continental sized Continent of Elibe to ASH (Aka Destroying it until all that remains are clear waters) in less than a month. )

And Eliwood´s weakened durandal one shotted Ninian. Eliwood > Ninian > 2 Fire Dragons.


I think i should repeat the fact that Turning something to ash even over time is 100% far superior than "runing the world" or wathever Grima did in Future Past, since Ylissle was still there.


So that scaling will indeed make them stronger.
 
by "weakened" i mean that they are not at their prime (aka. When they caused the ending winter)


Oh, another thing.

meaning it was also powered by a ENTIRE RACE.... it's impossible to find the value the weapons scale to... unfortunately


This is flat out bullshit.

Not every dragon participated on the Scouring based on Ninian´s backstory in FE7, and implying that ALL DRAGONS fought the 8 Heroes at once is flat out an attempt to make it look weaker than it is. Not to mention that Yahn´s statement about the weapons being weaker was abbout Roy not worrying the weapons he has with him wont cause another Ending Winter.

The Weapons ARE the main cause of the event. Thats why the legends Roy heard about the Ending Winter are about THE DRAGONS causing it, because they didnt want to tarnish the 8 heroes´s heroics with creating a nuclear winter.

Ending Winter (Prime Weapons) > FE7 Durandal > Ninian > 2 Fire Dragons.
 
"No you're wrong"

Well I'm just clapping my hands over such an expertly performed debunk

Also, if you're gonna advertise on my thread, allow me to advertise something as well, anyone recognize these ratings?

Check who created the profile
 
I dont mind MFTL+ Fire emblem. But why stop there? I'd rather upgrade them to immesurable via tibarn breaking the game if he uses boots and celerity.
 
I just read the script of every chapter starting from 21 (where the Binding Blade is obtained if you don't meet requirements for 21x) and I didn't find it
 
Shaking the Continent could have been a cutscene, and I believe it happened during the final battle against Idun
 
Anyways, points in favor of the weapons being the MAIN source of the Ending Winter :

1.-Yahn literally told Roy that the weapons have gotten weaker (But not so weak Durandal doesn´t one shot ninian, which would fall under the "Can fight enemies that can hurt her" since she gets struck by fire breath twice in a row and survives it) since then so they would not be able to cause the event again (Never mentioned that Dragons in their dragon form have gotten weaker, just that the manakete human forms are.)

2.-Its literally the reason the humans changed the legends, since it made the legendary heroes look bad to the future generations, thats the reason ehy Roy was told that the DRAGONS created the ending winter.

3.-Its ludicrous to believe that the event was about 8 people killing the entire dragon population at once like OP suggests, FE7 Ninian´s backstory and the Dragon Mirror where the fire dragons come out of already debunks this.

Hell, wouldnt killing all the dragons at once be actually, far, far stronger than High 6-A based onn their durability?


And the scaling i proposed earlier based on FE7:

Ending Winter (8 Prime Weapons used at once at something) = or > Sword of Seals (At least 2x a Prime Divine Weapon) >FE7 Durrandal > Ninian > At least 2 Fire Drragons.

So Eliwood should be AT LEAST twice as strong as a Fire Dragon, and Roy should be AT LEAST 2x Eliwood.

---

Reporting me just to basically shut me down was VERY uncalled for.

Now, can we please just upgrade base form Sacred Stones to Jojo Level? I want to do FE vs Jojo matches.
 
Not all Dragons are as durable as the one fought at the end of Fire Emblem 7; the Dragons gate dragons in particular were overwhelmingly larger, stronger and more durable than fodder War Dragons fought Fire Emblem 6. So it's definitely not "much higher than High 6-A, especially with reverse powerscaling.

Speaking of which, that was Athos who took hits from two Fire Dragons, not Ninian. Besides, sounds pretty inconsistent, weakened Durandal one shotted, Ninian, Ninian one shotted two Fire Dragons, but the 3rd Weakened Fire Dragon was still stronger than Eliwood with the Durandal, who needed help from Hector and Lyn? Besides, I'm pretty sure Ninian was purposely suppressing her defences when the weakened Durandal struck her.

Also, we don't use Reverse Power Scaling like that. There's no specific statement that refers to an exact multiplier for the Sealed Sword being stronger than the Divine Weapons individually or altogether either way, so we don't use direct comparisons.

No one reported you just for disagreeing with you, you were reported for constantly yelling and cussing at other people, and for using identical arguments to those who came before you and regarding the exact same verses no less; not just on this one. Also, it's best not to get involved, complaining about being suspected only furthers our suspicion.

Also, I don't know about shaking the whole continent, but Idenn's defeat does cause an Earthquake here.
 
Listen to what Merlinus says at 4:06, it was worn down by time and the fighting is what finally broke it, pretty unqualifiable
 
Did you even read what i wrote? Turning something to ASH is Highter than regular destruction or "ruining the world", like Grima did in Future Past.

While there are different types of dragons, that does not contradict the scaling i presented.

Eliwood with Weakened Durandal (FE7) >Ninian (Ice Dragon) > at least 2 Fire Dragons who attacked her with their main attack multiple times.

Explain to me what do FE6 Light Dragons have to do with any of this.

Not to mention that i disagree that Light Dragos are fodder when Fae is comprable to Idunn, is it the size? Because that is a very poor argument to make based on the sprite size.
 
I never said Divine Dragons were fodder, I said War Dragons are. And no, size isn't the argument, it's because the Divine Weapons are overwhelmingly stronger than the fodder War Dragons where as, the Fire Dragon from FE7 was a challenge for the combined power of 4 Divine Weapon wielders.
 
the 3rd Weakened Fire Dragon was still stronger than Eliwood with the Durandal, who needed help from Hector and Lyn?


gameplay mechanics are a thing. Seriously, the fact that something is a boss battle or not is literally meaningless when compared to a plot central cutscene.

Yahn and other Manaketes are comparable to the FE7 Fire Dragons, and i dont see the argument for them being weaker.

Is it the sprite size? Because the Fire Dragons have 2 different sizes depending if its a cutscene or not.


Besides, I'm pretty sure Ninian was purposely suppressing her defences when the weakened Durandal struck her.


Oh thats a bold claim. And bold claims require bold evidence.
 
I know that Ninian 100% didnt reduce her defenses because she was literally, and i mean, LITERALLY forced her into turning into a raging dragon by Nergal the previous cutscene.

So, anything to say to that? Because, i think ive just proven that you might have a motive behind such an obvious false claim. (And reporting me without evidence does not help your case at all)

https://youtu.be/pFLEu9PbuVE
 
There's no way to prove either or; in fact, additionally, Ninian could be a bit of a glass cannon for all we know. But still, Ninian loved Eliwood and clearly didn't want to harm him, so it would stand to reason for her to fight for self control and avoid harming him.

Also, here that was Athos who took two hits from the Fire Dragons, not Ninian. Ninian was never attacked, she simply transformed, killed two of them and weakened the third via Ice Storm, and collapsed. Then it canonically required the combined party just to take out that one Dragon. Lucius one shotting Nergal or being able to take out Nergal or Fire Dragon without Divine weapons would be example of game mechanics.
 
We dont have Falchion at 6-B "against dragons" nor the Vampire Killer "against evil things" now do we?

The amount if force applied by Durandal was still enough to one shot the thing that one shotted two dragons that were ststed tl be able to turn Elibe to ash. (Aka. Again, far greater than regular "destruction")

---

Oh no. You are not running aqay from this time. You CLAIMED Ninian lowered her defenses, and you have to baxk up your claim.

Medeus either post proof that Ninian lowered her defenses or just say you made that up and for what purpouse.

Nergal made Ninian turn into a dragon against hee will, and was stated to be raging and out of control.
 
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