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Possible downgrade for superman post flashpoint

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Slim00001

Slim00001

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So post flashpoint superman has had an upgrade to low multiversal because seemlingly he destroyed world forgers masterpiece which is a multiverse with his sheer power. however according to the editor that does not seem to be the case.According to the editor WF multiverse was all unstable. Only the world of the future JL was stable and by striking the anvil WF wouldve completed his multiverse but since superman stopped him and his multiverse could not be completed and as a result it crumbled. Sure superman had an amp by passing through suns but there is no way to pin point how much stronger he got. The only thing he did was knocked WF off his feet which didnt even KOed him and later WF says he cant find JL because he cant exist in their plane or something. So Superman should not be at low multiversal. Also the editor also made clear that supermman did not destroy any 6th dimension. Those are all just fanboy rumours. Also Scott Snyder the writer already said to ask the editor meaning editor statements should be legit.
Also that thing about phantom zone i think superman said that "World around him starts shaking" meaning the limited space around him not the entirety of the phantom zone itslef


So yeah
 
Superman debunk
Also editor says he did not destroy any 6th dimension so that argument is completely out of the window
 
I mean... knocking the shit out of a Multiversal+ level god, to a point where he's flat on his ass would still be Multiversal+ even if he didn't totally KO him. But this is interesting
 
Jared1111 said:
I mean... knocking the shit out of a Multiversal+ level god, to a point where he's flat on his ass would still be Multiversal+ even if he didn't totally KO him. But this is interesting
Click to expand...
Classic PIS. (Plus I think he was caught off-guard.)

I actually brought up the same point in the previous CRT, that if the multiverse was in the process of being created, it was never complete and unstable.
 
Is somebody willing to contact the members that I listed?
 
Yes, but explicitly not to a 2-C degree.
 
Is an immesurable boost that was product of a measurable ammount of completed tasks, like what happend to certain DB characters when they fuse, transform or train, which for the series still takes it as power boosts, I honestly see no problem since the feat is still there, yes It didnt kill the World Forger but it surely damaged him.
 
If he did not destroy the multiverse, knocking over the World Forger is just a similar Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier to when he fought Dominus, or lots of other feats of superheroes harming cosmic entities.
 
Again, he was implied to be heavily boosted by the sun dips, regardless if he only did one or one thousand it really doesnt contradict much to his base rating and saying that is PIS because the Plot needed conclusion instead of accepting the feat for what it is feels like a very rushed take on it.

I think Matt and Prince agreed on the rating, but we should obviously just wait for his response in this thread.
 
Well, somebody needs to contact them, Sandman31, and preferably the others as well.
 
Wait is destroying an "unstable" universe/multiverse supposed to be significantly less powerful than destroying a "stable" universe/multiverse? They're still 4-D constructs either way, so I don't know why them being in some undefined "incomplete" state has to do with anything.
 
Actually the agreement was mainly due to the destruction feat. If that's discarded then briefly knocking a distracted and off-guard WF would just be a PIS/outlier.

And since DB was brought up, there are several instances of such flukes.
 
Malomtek said:
Wait is destroying an "unstable" universe/multiverse supposed to be significantly less powerful than destroying a "stable" universe/multiverse? They're still 4-D constructs either way, so I don't know why them being in some undefined "incomplete" state has to do with anything.
Click to expand...
It's unquantifiable. And in this case, the unstable multiverse started crumbling on its own accord when Supes stopped WF.
 
And if the world of the future JL remained "stable", then by the standards I think are being assumed here, the would still at least be Low 2-C regardless.

And why are we looking at random tweet conversations with Associate Editors as solid proof of anything, especially when those Editors can outright contradict each other on a whim?
 
Yeah, the tweets are legit, so you'd have to check with Matt, Sandman or Prince to see if they have any input, but it doesnt look good.
 
Malomtek said:
And why are we looking at random tweet conversations with Associate Editors as solid proof of anything, especially when those Editors can outright contradict each other on a whim?
Click to expand...
Because context. It's quite possible that what you interpret or understand from the comic isn't quite correct as there can be other ways to interpret the same thing. There is nothing wrong with someone responsible shedding some light and context to correctly understand an event.
 
Anyway, I see Jared already contacted Matt about this. I went ahead and messaged Kep and Ultima as well.
 
Somebody should contact POTM and Sandman31 as well though.
 
AKM sama said:
It's unquantifiable. And in this case, the unstable multiverse started crumbling on its own accord when Supes stopped WF.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound like its based on literally anything in the comic proper, but the random tweet chain again.
Rereading the comic the feat comes from (Justice League Volume 4 #25), there is no sign of a greater multiversal instability anywhere, at any time. It is clear, however, that Superman straight up shattered the World Forger's "masterpiece" (his new multiverse), leaving only chunks and pieces remaining.

So it should be clear that the editor was mistaken.
 
I mean... it was only the associate editor, so maybe he didn't get the fact straight but I see no reason why he'd lie about it or misremember. I guess if you wanted you could contact Marie Javins to confirm if it's true.
 
Yes I was talking about the tweet, which is in line with the comic. It doesn't contradict anything as the multiverse was in the process of being created, it wasn't completed.
 
Yes, the comicbook made clear that the World Forger had to strike his anvil to complete the multiverse, and Superman prevented him from doing so.
 
Well, not "complete"

According to the comic, he had to strike the anvil to replace the current one with his masterpiece. There's not really any indication it's not complete, just waiting to replace the old one.

Justice League 21: "The groundwork is being prepared for this multiverse to replace the existing one"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/vnn7rD3ikEJQuz3eoI98TXPNUFzWBRMDYuipB12vu4G9Znf5zscz10UCdHzoK-w0Ah9GUy5Bu9kQYd_A6tnF8vEeqQ0QXEBmySX4fdmmk-1q4Zh6tnGoOu7-_3yJrdnbMlokkqbrbQ=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/NhqhKYhlUe_BCoACFWDaFUbrlHNC7jkDVjpSry2gDo3KD2U46lkEC9XWzw4VqnCtqklAF5lL4XvsWOulAIckRaAu1xKbLAHMnbZEvmCs3OhadxnWlWcpKfDcUVzXNxS4TXBLc3Fdmg=s1600

Also from Justice League 21: "This is where crisises are caused. Like in those times, the essences of those who have a place will be transferred when I strike my hammer and this reality descends"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3Oxn5LbgNhfBScAvRNUkQbtuTCdxEbxLH_UyAZ57aB_IzQOCFCWFtzXlzbcJW7hcm-exwZ9NuXhIsn7UgyM5ZrLP17SAHF56-iFwX1282g7h3VnURYVT6YTXkKO_R2EjjkvBYa8lLg=s1600

Justice League 23: "Then I will strike the anvil, and this universe will descend upon the currect one"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ZDvjqwtEkmDEg6Mv0tI9z4nQfAEUV8mQt-6kuqPFkqxZRMiRqfToCmA8dHZw0nix0gCLkU-rV-faSxU7L3tsC8spmidUAmKBXKi4dwyNyDKCfLzYHEYT4GvYQet-m4VE6u1Jaz4y-w=s1600


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ZDvjqwtEkmDEg6Mv0tI9z4nQfAEUV8mQt-6kuqPFkqxZRMiRqfToCmA8dHZw0nix0gCLkU-rV-faSxU7L3tsC8spmidUAmKBXKi4dwyNyDKCfLzYHEYT4GvYQet-m4VE6u1Jaz4y-w=s1600


Justice League 24. "Soon it will be time to strike the Crisis Anvil and REPLACE the old mutiverse with this one"

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/2OpP3pnyd0JgeGvS12170d3RF4l6URuunk6TCtWFMhNq-dV5WryBWej5PmJgz0ISKCbQs5QQ6NGjUcRrwj0EQegsTCZ2CWb55IOwDULcHQcXdsGgSCcY-p0XEwHiLYyihKTc4L-jqA=s1600

The only possible implication to it being unstable is here, when Future Flash and Future Jon Stewart explain they're rebuilding and expanding the multiverse, but the very next page has Flash state the Timestream's no longer perilous and that they've stabilized time travel.

Here:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GA8TNQUmo5A3pcJgGu8_mmWk7XxdQPZtWw2kVKXDVgAXrXzCMAHqPWAadFmDBn5ch0telJpjS95hPQKxa8GW17FVXp3_HH0HikyekQPJmdbu5HDPLoctXw6vNY6FYwfa8uI_RBZlNg=s1600

and


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GA8TNQUmo5A3pcJgGu8_mmWk7XxdQPZtWw2kVKXDVgAXrXzCMAHqPWAadFmDBn5ch0telJpjS95hPQKxa8GW17FVXp3_HH0HikyekQPJmdbu5HDPLoctXw6vNY6FYwfa8uI_RBZlNg=s1600

Finally, World Forger seems to indirectly veto the idea that it's unstable by stating that anything that will last, he "ushers towards reality" (ie, striking them with the hammer to go to the positive multiverse) and those that he deems unstable are returned to the forge (Ie, the dark multiverse) and he was planning to usher this one toward reality. The implication being this multiverse was stable enough to become reality.

Justice League 23:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/CwvSOWeSTG3zX27AuOVg38atlXPuaZtAvu-Chij9kAvaG80dOGJkD4jqi6Wnq09wyWxKz6dSf25arVuAsw6bP89HEPKsgowQ7yLm6-ds4kkXna1G9NPAsaC2CHQX5q8YcOTakDayMw=s1600


With all this context.....the implication seems to be it was stable and ready to be replaced, and was just waiting for a chance to replace reality.
 
is there even any proof that superman directly destroyed the multiverse? it could be due to him destroying the anvil and hammer and the multiverse was already in flux because of being in the middle of replacement.....it is not complete until it replaced the original one


there are so many absolutely high end assumptions and it is not clear cut.....even the editor is coming out to clear all this confusion and no reason not to take his word

his knowledgable explanation of the feat >>>>>> uninformed speculations by the fans
 
Well, Snyder apparently sent the person asking him to one of his editors, who in turn clarified that the multiverse was not destroyed by Superman. Sorry.
 
what he means is that superman was indirectly responsible because he stopped the world forger as explained in detail by the editor.......it is no contradiction he did not directly destroy the multiverse with brute force
 
Um, that's a direct contradiction. Remember, Scott Snyder directly states Superman crashed it "when hitting"

The editor states he indirectly caused it by "knocking down" World Forger and that it was unstable.

The comic never states it was unstable and implies the opposite, that it was stable (Forger stating that unstable worlds go back to the forge, while stable ones are sent to reality. And his plan hinges on sending that multiverse to reality, implying heavily that it is stable). It also shows Superman did a lot more than "knock down" Forger, as he's at first unresponsive to Superman's calls, has a bloody mouth and swollen eye, and when he does speak, is coughing and pausing, indicating he was unconscious.

While you can argue the editor is in a higher position and has more knowledge than us, some of what he says directly contradicts what we see on screen or are told by World Forger.
 
For gawd's sake, just contact all of the remaining people that I listed so we can get proper input. Thank you.
 
It's still a multiversal feat. Feats are more reliable than some editor's tweet (these guys aren't perfect), while a story gives us all we need to know. Superman knocked down a multiversal entity and cracked his masterpiece (his new multiverse).
 
Yeah, if the assistant editor contradicts the writer of the book on what happened I can't really say he should be held 100% as absolute WOG. I mean it's like that one writer (I think) for DBS that said Goku wasn't Universal despite clear evidence showing he was.

Plus, I can't really call it PIS or comparable to Dominus since that case was a normal Superman going against a Multiversal god with no explanation other then "muh theta" and this is a Superman that is way amped on Sun Dips to a point that his mere presence is felt across every dimension. This is obviously a way tougher Supes, a version of Supes who also stated he could destroy the entire Phantom Zone (though that was a statement not a feat) so obviously he's packing more heat than Post-Crisis at least.

However, I'll wait til more guys like Matthew and Prince show up, especially Matthew since he's the one gunning for 2-A anyway.
 
We still need more input from the knowledgeable members here.
 
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