Possible downgrade for Base Sonic tiers

[Theuser789]

I will definitely say that the cannon has had instances where it’s blast potential ended up exceeding it’s width, but in most of those cases the cannon resulted in a widespread AOE, not a straight line blast that had a far wider width than the original blast.

That was literally one time, it had no AOE blast when it destroyed the moon or the black comet.

Assumptions aren't automatically wrong if backed by facts, the calc explains why it makes assumptions, your solution is to just remove it while making other assumptions

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

My problem is just that breaking the atoms is not what the Eclipse Cannon is shown to do, ever. So it sort of contradicts the calc method.

You seems to miss the point

In order to even destroy any materials in the sun, atoms themselves would need to get destroyed as the Sun is made of plasma, something that even vaporization is unable to do, as destroying plasma itself would require to destroy the elements that made it by seperating the atoms to their component protons and neutrons

 

[JJSliderman]

There actually isn’t a reason given for why the hole needs to be visible.

 

[Starsprite53]

Disagree with the downgrade fra

 

[Theuser789]

Not sure, admittedly

You literally don't even have a solution... you are literally dismissing shit just cause you don't think it's how it should be

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbf the atomization thing is just sort of inconsistent, it’s not impossible, so I’m willing to accept it.
The hole being bigger than the cannon is also the same camp, but has no real reason for why that’s the case.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This is why the hole would need to be visible:

The weapon that's going to do this is one that's orbiting the Earth. It's not right next to a star, so a noticeable hole must occur from their view. What we end up using is a safe lowball by using our Sun if anything, as the statement wasn't exclusive to it.

 

[JJSliderman]

Why would the hole need to be visible? All we know is a statement from some characters that it could pierce stars.

 

[sanicspood]

following

 

[ElixirBlue]

Why would the hole need to be visible? All we know is a statement from some characters that it could pierce stars.

This is why the hole would need to be visible:

The weapon that's going to do this is one that's orbiting the Earth. It's not right next to a star, so a noticeable hole must occur from their view. What we end up using is a safe lowball by using our Sun if anything, as the statement wasn't exclusive to it.

From the view of the character claiming it pierces stars. They wouldn’t be able tell if Space Colony Ark pierced the star or not if they can’t see it.

 

[JJSliderman]

The only people who really say it are Black Doom and Shadow, two people who had a connection with the one who designed the cannon to begin with. Gerald could have just, told them, or imparted the information in a way that didn’t involve actually firing the cannon.

 

[DragonLord]

The only people who really say it are Black Doom and Shadow, two people who had a connection with the one who designed the cannon to begin with. Gerald could have just, told them, or imparted the information in a way that didn’t involve actually firing the cannon.

And how would Gearld Definitvely know?

 

[JJSliderman]

Because, he made the cannon.
Why would he not know what his own cannon could do.

 

[DragonLord]

Because, he made the cannon.
Why would he not know what his own cannon could do.

Just because you made something doesn’t mean you definitely know what it can do, he’d still need to test it

also Gearld telling Black Doom would be odd as it was a beam made to destroy him and his race

 

[JJSliderman]

I mean yeah I guess Gerald could have tested it but, iirc he only developed the cannon before he went crazy, so him firing it on a random Star seems sort of, out of character.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean yeah I guess Gerald could have tested it but, iirc he only developed the cannon before he went crazy, so him firing it on a random Star seems sort of, out of character.

Headcanon and out of character for Gerald

 

[ShakeResounding]

Out of character for a guy that was going to destroy the Earth and kill every innocent man, woman, child, and anthro because the government shot and killed Maria, JJ? C'mon now, he's not even hurting anything by shooting at a star

 

[JJSliderman]

He developed the cannon before all that stuff happened.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Doesn't change that it's meant to be destructive in nature, so that doesn't prove your point

 

[Theuser789]

I don't think Gerald would know about the cannon's power just cause he build it, without any calculations and the like, I still think that what's in the calc is a good middle ground

 

[JJSliderman]

If it was rock solid that the hole is visible then sure, I can buy the calc.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @TISSG7Redgrave @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Ryukama @Maverick_Zero_X @DemonGodMitchAubin @Starter_Pack @The_real_cal_howard @DarkDragonMedeus

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[ShakeResounding]

I think the initial proposition of the thread is actually close to being done already.

 

[JJSliderman]

Idk I guess I’m just not really fully sold on the actual hole size. I get it being feasible for the cannon to perform, but the semi-vague nature of the feat leaves it too open to interpret events in a different way.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If it was rock solid that the hole is visible then sure, I can buy the calc.

Ok, so how would you verify if a weapon pierce the star or not?

I think the initial proposition of the thread is actually close to being done already.

Which, is true, because part of the OP has this argument:

and would require the Eclipse Cannon’s beam to be far larger than the ARK itself, which we see multiple times is not the case in games like SA2 and Shadow.

Which is a wrong criteria to make because:

 

[ShakeResounding]

Idk I guess I’m just not really fully sold on the actual hole size. I get it being feasible for the cannon to perform, but the semi-vague nature of the feat leaves it too open to interpret events in a different way.

Which is exactly why the calculation uses a similar method to an already accepted feat in the Common Feats page. You can spin the thread in any which way you want to upgrade or downgrade the calculation, but your idea is just a wrong one. Things CAN produce more damage than what their size is. This is a fact that literally cannot be disputed.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ok, so how would you verify if a weapon pierce the star or not?




Which, is true, because part of the OP has this argument:



Which is a wrong criteria to make because:

Sorry, JJSliderman, I kind of can’t let that go.

 

[Theuser789]

Idk I guess I’m just not really fully sold on the actual hole size. I get it being feasible for the cannon to perform, but the semi-vague nature of the feat leaves it too open to interpret events in a different way.

The calc is already a lowball, he could have assumed any other star or a bigger hole, and yet it picks the smallest variables

 

[JJSliderman]

It's not really the smallest hole size though, because it ignores the possibility that the hole isn't actually visible, and characters just know it can pierce stars by other means.

 

[Shmooply]

Gonna have to disagree with the OP as well after everything that has been brought up here.

 

[ElixirBlue]

It's not really the smallest hole size though, because it ignores the possibility that the hole isn't actually visible, and characters just know it can pierce stars by other means.

What means?

 

[Theuser789]

It's not really the smallest hole size though, because it ignores the possibility that the hole isn't actually visible, and characters just know it can pierce stars by other means.

Because that possibility is simply nonsensical, we could literally say it pierces a microscopic hole, just because something is possible doesn't mean it's the case

 

[ShakeResounding]

It's not really the smallest hole size though, because it ignores the possibility that the hole isn't actually visible, and characters just know it can pierce stars by other means.

A person can't tell if a hole has been pierced if you can't actually even see it. That would be Black Doom making a nonsensical statement. And for what, a technicality? That's kinda ludicrous.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I’m more so curious about JJ’s alternatives means of verifying the Eclipse canon piercing stars.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wasnt the “pierce the stars” another “Hoshi” situation?

 

[JJSliderman]

Black Doom could have just heard it from Gerald, or some other source. It's not like he really has seen the cannon pierce a star from what we know.

I’m more so curious about JJ’s alternatives means of verifying the Eclipse canon piercing stars.

Okay I get it, I was wrong about the cannon thing. It just seemed kind of weird to me given all the other instances of the cannon firing prior, so I was thinking there was another possibility that didn't involve atomization, but I couldn't think of one.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wasnt the “pierce the stars” another “Hoshi” situation?

The "Hoshi" thing was explained in the blog

 

[ElixirBlue]

Wasnt the “pierce the stars” another “Hoshi” situation?

Apparently the English dialogue was created first for Shadow the Hedgehog.

“The Game of "Shadow the Hedgehog" came out and was originally localized with an English-first script (with the JP version releasing two months later within January of 2006). In said script, Black Doom claims that the Eclipse Cannon can pierce through stars. The Japanese version uses the kanji "hoshi" (星), which can mean either planet or star. As the English script precedes the Japanese script, the correct translation to "hoshi" in this case would be star rather than Planet”

 

[Theuser789]

Wasnt the “pierce the stars” another “Hoshi” situation?

Both official and fan translators have confirmed it has star, it's in the calc explanation

 

[JJSliderman]

I mean Shadow also says planet-piercing like one time so I can understand the confusion.