Possible 2-B Zen'o

[Zenkaibattery1]

Shouldn't Zen'o be 2-B? There is so much evidence for it.

Amount of timelines:

Pilaf: "Then..... then there are tons of parallel worlds!?"

Time ring room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93JALkvWKfE Thousands of droors that possibly contain time rings

Trunks: "In other words, while there's a future where Goku san is alive, there's another futures in which he is dead. MANY futures are created over the smallest actions ". IIRC, this was also used as justification for the games. This statement to be accurate when Beerus killed Zamasu, which created a future where Zamasu wasn't hakaied. In the same scene, Whis said it's possible to return to a time where the future wasn't destroyed, and Beerus said even doing that (going to the future) will create ANOTHER timeline.

This should make the DB multiverse 2-B

Zen'o statements showing he can erase everything

Whis states Zen'o can easily destroy the entire multiverse . This is even stated in his profile.

Beerus states Zen'o can destroy all 12 universes (which should include all it's timelines as he has shown he can destroy time-space and the other 6 universes he has destroyed in the past are completely gone, even it's timelines) in an INSTANT

Grand Priest states if the winner didn't wish for the universes to be restored, Zen'o would have erased EVERYTHING

This should warrant a 2-B Zen'o

 

[LordGinSama]

I think there was this massive thread for this awhile ago that Ryukama made. I belive it was rejected after like 500+ comments.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'm pretty sure that followed the idea that Zen'o can't erase everything in an instant, when there are statements that say otherwise. Even stated in his profile he can destroy the multiverse, and statements being used to justify the games as well that there are thousand of thousands of timelines

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I am pretty sure all of the quotes stating he can erase "everything" are only regarding the context of the 12 Universes, not their alternate timelines.

Is there any evidence suggesting the timelines of the 6 Universes he erased were destroyed as well? This seems to be a baseless assumption

 

[Kepekley23]

There are multiple Zen'os in the multiverse, though, so he doesn't scale to all timelines. "Everything" means the twelve universes.

 

[AstralKing7]

....here we go again lol

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

It's literally stated he can erase the entire multiverse, which is the biggest proof there. It's ON HIS PROFILE. Right after that he says he destroyed 6 universes in the past as an example of his destructive capabilities. Grand Priest said he would erase "everything", which logically includes all the timelines.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

I agrree

 

[Kepekley23]

Actually, the fact that the original 18 universes were mentioned before as an example of Zeno's AP proves the context was on the 12 universes

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

What? The 18 universes and GP's statements are two completely different episodes. Nice comment edit bruh Edit: Then why does his profile interperet "the entire world" as "multiverse"

 

[Ryukama]

I'm fine with Zeno staying where he is, but I think this "there's a Zeno for each timeline" argument is poor. Blowing up multiple timelines and being a multiversal constant are two completely different abilities. Just cause there are numerous Gokus doesn't mean Xenoverse Goku can't destroy multiple timelines. Just cause there's a Demonbane in each timeline doesn't mean Demonbane can't destroy multiple timelines. Or most of Marvel's Tier 2s who have alternate universe versions of themselves.

Anyways this was turned down before because most people interpreted "the entire world" or "all of existence" as just the main timeline, rather than the actual entire world or the all of existence. So I don't think this will go through this time either

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

"More time rings"

Then how come we only see one box when Beerus asked to see ALL of the time rings?

If anything, that's just some general storage room

Don't really have too much of an opinion on Pilaf and Trunks' statements

 

[Quantu]

I agree with the majority here.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Grand Priest's statement doesn't prove anything though. It has been accepted long ago that all 12 Universes are individual space-times contained on a larger Continuum, him being able to destroy the "multiverse" is always refered in the context of the 12 universe, not of all Timelines in existence

 

[Kepekley23]

@Zenkai

I meant that Zeno destroying the multiverse only refers to the 12 universes and the original 18, not that the statement was made right before GP's

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I was already on Ryukama's side last thread, but the rest of the staff and admins disagreed, so I honestly doubt this will get through this time.

 

[AstralKing7]

time to stop following this thread its getting repetitive with the same comments

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah no. Disagreeing like before and going with majority.

 

[Kepekley23]

Whis used "all of existence" to refer to the 18 universes when he told Goku who Zen'o was, by the way.

 

[DodoNova2]

Really i have no Problem with 2-B Zeno if Arguments are Correct and legit, of OP's arguments contains flaws so I'll wait for the argument for zen'o hold the road

 

[PaChi2]

There are multiple Zen'os in the multiverse, though, so he doesn't scale to all timelines. "Everything" means the twelve universes.

This guy knows.

 

[Extreme123dz]

No

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Ryu Pretty sure that the "One Zen'o per timeline" argument is just that saying that Zen'o rules over and can destroy all the timelines because they're part of "Everything" doesn't work, given that each Zen'o seems to only have control over one timeline.

 

[Quantu]

2-B DB is legit imo.

Just not 2-B Zeno.

 

[Ryukama]

@Saikou Zeno's power, at least in range, is demonstrably not limited to just one timeline. He erased someone in the present timeline while he was in Future Trunks's timeline.

The argument before was that since Zeno was stated able to erase anything and everything and all of existence, by someone who is well aware of there being numerous other timelines, with this statement being in an arc all about travelling to these other timelines, that this would indicate that it's referring to Zeno being able to erase the other timelines as well.

Again even if you want to interpret "everything", "anything" and "all of existence" as just one timeline, "One Zeno per timeline" disproves nothing at all.

 

[AKM sama]

Don't think it will happen based on one interpretation of a statement.

Because there is also another interpretation of that statement which is backed up by a feat too.

 

[Kepekley23]

Whis used the same wording to refer to the 18 universes when he explained who Zen'o was to Goku and Vegeta.

"All of existence" does not have to include all timelines, there is no proof it does, and similar statements only refer to the multiverse. It refers to the 12 universes until proven otherwise.

 

[Ryukama]

What wording does Whis use when referring to the 18 universes? What are you talking about?

Whis knows perfectly well that other timelines exist. The very arc this statement is from is centered around travelling to these other timelines. Whis would most likely not say "all of existence" if he was only referring to just one single timeline, instead of, well all of existence.

Either way I am alright with the current rating though. Especially since "all of existence" is manga only statement.

 

[Kepekley23]

https://youtu.be/qwPf2GDn4p4?t=61

After the Universe 6 Saga, Whis uses the similar wording of "all the world" to refer to the 18 universes. So it has definitely been used on this context before.

 

[Ryukama]

What makes you say he's only referring to the 18 universes there? "All the world" could either mean the collection of universes or the collection of timelines based upon interpretation. I'm fine with the former interpretation being used but still.

 

[Kepekley23]

He immediately goes on about the 6 universes Zen'o destroyed. The context was only on the 18 universes. When Goku and Vegeta heard about the entire world, the 12 universes came to mind. Not the other timelines. Whis knew this.

 

[Ryukama]

They are two different statements. Whis says that Zeno can destroy the entire world, and that he has once destroyed 6 universes. One is a statement of what he can do and the other is what he has actually done before. Just because Zeno simply got upset and destroyed 6 universes, doesn't mean that he can't destroy far more than that, or that Whis wasn't referring to other timelines.

I'm fine with the other interpretation being used as I said, but Whis stating that Zeno once destroyed 6 universes doesn't automatically prove that interpretation.

 

[Kepekley23]

Whis was explaining why Zen'o could destroy the entire world to Goku and Vegeta, who had the universes in mind while listening to him. The context there only supports 18 universes. It really doesn't make sense for him to be talking about the timelines on that scene, but it makes perfect sense for him to be talking about the multiverse.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm very positive that this was rejected. And I agree with Ryukama 100%, we really can't upgrade characters due to speculation alone.

 

[Ryukama]

Whis wasn't saying "Zeno can destroy the whole world because he destroyed 6 universes" (which in that case then he apparently can't even destroy the timeline)

He explains something Zeno once did, as a way to emphacize his ridiculous power. Zeno having once destroyed 6 universes does not mean he can't destroy timelines, or that Whis was only referring to one timeline.

I'm fine with the current rating but this doesn't prove anything. "Whis said Zeno can destroy one timeline only and nothing more" isn't a claim that is proven by "Zeno once destroyed 6 universes". There is no correlation.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Zeno was a bit angry when he detroyed IZ,and IZ was connected to current timeline,why did not Zeno affected future too?

 

[Dark649]

I agree Ryukama and Kep.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree that it's possible for Zeno to destroy other timelines, but we don't really have proof of it at least till we have confirmation in the next generation.

For now, destroying 18 universes; (Or some prefer 36 if afterlifes are included) that's still only 2-C and we can leave it at that for now.

 

[Kepekley23]

It proves it. Once again, Goku and Vegeta had the 12 universes in mind and Whis was aware of this. He would have no reason to refer to the alternate timelines here when the context fully supports a multiversal stance and doesn't even touch on the timelines. Whis was explaining it knowing that Gou and Vegeta took the "world" to mean "all universes" as opposed to timelines. Occam's Razor defaults to the multiverse, not all timelines.

 

[Ryukama]

@DarkDragonMedeus Yeah I'm fine with keeping it 2-C until we get more solid confirmation of anything else. However some of the arguments used for 2-C are not very good, which is what I'm going on about.