Polar Opposites at Plot Manipulation dunk each other (Monika vs Arale)

[StrymULTRA]

Because apparentely Arale despite her downgrade has a lot of hax.

Given they're both very powerful users of Plot Hax, but one is from a Gag Manga and the other is from a Horror Visual Novel, why not?

Arale is in her DBS Key and has all her Optional Equipment, and Speed is Equalized.

Might change Arale to her DB Fusions key if is a stomp.

Monika solos Dragon Ball Super:

Monika does not solo Dragon Ball Super:

They both are fictional so they both die outta nowhere:

 

[TauanVictor]

We assume that Plot Hax is intrinsically capable of interacting with NEP?

 

[StrymULTRA]

We assume that Plot Hax is intrinsically capable of interacting with NEP?

Monika does not start with NEP. And besides her NEP form lacks plot.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Monika does not start with NEP.

I don't see why it should be one thing, since they both resist Plot Hax. Eventually, that would be determinative.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't see why it should be one thing, since they both resist Plot Hax. Eventually, that would be determinative.

Because in her NEP state Monika does not just resist plot hax, she straight up lacks a plot in her being.

 

[Kirinator07]

Couldn't Arale Seal/BFR Monika while Precocing her?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Couldn't Arale Seal/BFR Monika while Precocing her?

Monika's first thing is to delete tho.

 

[TauanVictor]

Does Arale have any way to bypass Monika's HG regen?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Does Arale have any way to bypass Monika's HG regen?

Regeneration (High-Godly and overtime. After the deletion of the game, she's implied to have returned as she is able to still post on her Twitter account, which is recognized from the Metaverse Enterprise Solutions, though this seemingly takes some time)

It's non combat applicable. Though it doesn't matter as Monika if dead can act as a NEP being.

 

[Kirinator07]

Monika's first thing is to delete tho.

Arale would already have an idea of that, hence the 4th wall/precog.

 

[Kirinator07]

She has no answer to BFR/Precog/Sealing so Arale for my vote.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Arale would already have an idea of that, hence the 4th wall/precog.

Just saying that precogn is useless as Monika's deletion cannot be comprehended from the script itself. Not to mention that it's thought based anyways.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Ok, from what I've seen on Arale's profile, she needs to hit Monika to BFR her to a different page (which wouldn't matter anyway because she can TP back... or she'd just be killed due to being just a regular human in durability which would mean she enters into her nonexistent state which Arale can do nothing to affect)

Monika has her own clairvoyance which lets her see the past, present and future of the game, so she'd also know what Arale would do. But anyway, Monika starts with nearly instant EE, so she erases Arale before Arale reaches her

 

[Ss3micah]

Requesting this match be placed on hold
At current Arale’s profile is likely outdated
Currently working on numerous adjustments, removals and fixes, new upgrades, proper calcs, new characters among other stuff for Dr. Slump (all of which can't be used because their not applied to the profile as of yet) among other IRL obligations I need to adhere to

So neither I nor any DB/Dr. Slump supporter will have full time available to debate this

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Is there any Dr. Slump Discussion thread?

 

[Kirinator07]

Just saying that precogn is useless as Monika's deletion cannot be comprehended from the script itself. Not to mention that it's thought based anyways.

It would work when you realize Arale is separate from the script and story itself so her Clairvoyance won't be anything here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

In DDLC Plot, Data and Type 2 concepts are the same tho.

 

[Kirinator07]

In DDLC Plot, Data and Type 2 concepts are the same tho.

And?

 

[Ss3micah]

In all honesty
The match just ends immediately with Monika and Arale being friends via Passive Social Influencing and GG
Monika has no defense to Social Influence nor does she start initially hostile and even then Social Influence works against those who are bloodlust with full intent to harm/kill

There is also Broadway Force hax which Monika has nth to defend herself against

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Goku solos.

Jokes aside... This is interesting.

 

[Kirinator07]

Goku solos.

Jokes aside... This is interesting.

Toribot and Dr. Slump are watching from the sidelines.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

In all honesty
The match just ends immediately with Monika and Arale being friends via Passive Social Influencing and GG
Monika has no defense to Social Influence nor does she start initially hostile and even then Social Influence works against those who are bloodlust with full intent to harm/kill

There is also Broadway Force hax which Monika has nth to defend herself against

Monika can resist plot manipulation in the context of her being scripted to play a specific role in reality, so I think that would also allow her to resist being influenced by abilities like Broadway force. It depends on how good Arale's social influencing is. It's not on her profile yet and I haven't researched that myself so I don't know. Monika has the emotional maturity to have wise beliefs about various topics, and she's supposed to be a very admirable student. Would that be enough to not get befriended by Arale? If it's not, then maybe it's more than just social influencing.

Anyway, I didn't look too deep into this matchup, but right now it seems to me that the characters have no way of defeating each other.

 

[Ss3micah]

Monika can resist plot manipulation in the context of her being scripted to play a specific role in reality

Arale has layers into Plot Manipulation while Monika only has baseline Plot Resistance....
Baseline resistance wont help Monika against a Layered Plot Manipulation

so I think that would also allow her to resist being influenced by abilities like Broadway force.

Resistance to Plot Manipulation does not in any way grant you resistance to Broadway Force nor Social Influence, even more so when resistance to either ability is not specified in Monika's Plot Resistance description

It depends on how good Arale's social influencing is.

Its good enough to make people who actively tried refusing her, threatening her and outright trying to harm her spontaneously become her friend and follow her whims and commands.

It's not on her profile yet and I haven't researched that myself so I don't know. Monika has the emotional maturity to have wise beliefs about various topics, and she's supposed to be a very admirable student. Would that be enough to not get befriended by Arale? If it's not, then maybe it's more than just social influencing.

Monika does not have Social Influence for 1
Arale resists social influencing for 2
And Her Toon Force hard counters her being influenced for 3 since her Toon Force traps her in a constant state of never-ending Stupidity and she can't help but acting idiotic all the time. If Monika tried to influence her to be anything BUT idiotic then it wouldn't work against her

Anyway, I didn't look too deep into this matchup, but right now it seems to me that the characters have no way of defeating each other.

Plot Resistance =/= Resistance to other powers and abilities without Context. In Monika's case. She lacks that context




Also Arale can just stop time (another thing Monika doesn't resist)
And then just K.O. Monika or BFR her outta range
Monika being Outcold or Gone from the Area of battle for 24 hours is a Win

 

[StrymULTRA]

Arale has layers into Plot Manipulation while Monika only has baseline Plot Resistance....

Is DDLC Plot Hax being Type 2 concept too useful?

 

[Ss3micah]

Is DDLC Plot Hax being Type 2 concept too useful?

It being part Concept Hax

Means that Monika can likely reliably bypass Arale's Layers of resistance to Plot Manipulation since Arale doesn't resist Concept Hax
But At the same time Monika being resistance to Concept Hax doesn't mean she can resist a Layered Plot Hax. You need Plot Hax to resist Plot Hax not Concept Hax to Resist Plot Hax. And in this case, Monika's Plot Hax resistance...... even thou mixed with being Conceptual will not give her protection against a Layered Plot Hax.

 

[Ss3micah]

It being part Concept Hax

Means that Monika can likely reliably bypass Arale's Layers of resistance to Plot Manipulation since Arale doesn't resist Concept Hax
But At the same time Monika being resistance to Concept Hax doesn't mean she can resist a Layered Plot Hax. You need Plot Hax to resist Plot Hax not Concept Hax to Resist Plot Hax. And in this case, Monika's Plot Hax resistance...... even thou mixed with being Conceptual will not give her protection against a Layered Plot Hax.

So in short
Both can reliably affect each other with their own Plot Hax

But Arale doesn't even need to use Plot Hax at all to win here
She can easily just stop time and then BFR or K.O Monika
Or just Social Influence her into Friendship

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Arale has layers into Plot Manipulation while Monika only has baseline Plot Resistance....
Baseline resistance wont help Monika against a Layered Plot Manipulation

I wasn't comparing the plot manipulation of the two. This is irrelevant to what I wrote.

Resistance to Plot Manipulation does not in any way grant you resistance to Broadway Force nor Social Influence, even more so when resistance to either ability is not specified in Monika's Plot Resistance description

How can Monika be forced to dance if she's aware that this is an ability for fictional characters, and the awareness is what allows her to not be forced to take on a specific role within her reality? Resisting being forced to naturally behave a certain way is like a way better version of resisting being forced to do a specific action for a certain scenario.

I didn't claim that this would help resist social influencing. I wrote "abilities like Broadway force".

Its good enough to make people who actively tried refusing her, threatening her and outright trying to harm her spontaneously become her friend and follow her whims and commands.

That seems like empathic manipulation to me. What makes it social influencing?

Monika does not have Social Influence for 1
Arale resists social influencing for 2
And Her Toon Force hard counters her being influenced for 3 since her Toon Force traps her in a constant state of never-ending Stupidity and she can't help but acting idiotic all the time. If Monika tried to influence her to be anything BUT idiotic then it wouldn't work against her

1: I never claimed that she does.
2 & 3: That's not a factor in what I was discussing.

Also Arale can just stop time (another thing Monika doesn't resist)
And then just K.O. Monika or BFR her outta range
Monika being Outcold or Gone from the Area of battle for 24 hours is a Win

Monika can still talk with the player after time was deleted.

Arale would kill Monika in the process of knocking her through a manga panel or something like that, which would make Monika nonexistent and incorporeal yet still alive.

 

[Ss3micah]

How can Monika be forced to dance if she's aware that this is an ability for fictional characters, and the awareness is what allows her to not be forced to take on a specific role within her reality? Resisting being forced to naturally behave a certain way is like a way better version of resisting being forced to do a specific action for a certain scenario.

This is essentially giving Monika resistance to a Myriad of Hax without proof other than......................
She can break out of the script of the world and thus any ability used within the script of her world cannot affect her.........

She needs actual showings or implications of resistance otherwise its a No Go.
Monika's resistance center's around breaking out of the script of the game, in short her plot resistance makes so that the script of the world cannot affect her
But to state that "This ability is used within the script of the world (can apply 101 abilities) and because the script of the world cannot affect her once she breaks through it so can't any other ability. Thats not how this works. Monika has to either prove resistance or it has to be implied in some form otherwise No Go

If Monika is forced to Dance being aware that she is being forced to dance wont prevent her from Dancing
Plot Resistance wont help either because she is not being targeted a Plot Based Ability

That seems like empathic manipulation to me. What makes it social influencing?

Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm

Arale doesn't directly affect or manipulate people's emotions and feelings
More so she influences their Actions with her charm, demeanor and her own actions/interactions towards them

Monika can still talk with the player after time was deleted.

Nope. Uh-Uh
Sorry buddy but Absolutely NO go
This has been discussed Time and Time again by Staff and Time Erase =/= Time Stop nor do we grant beings who can function in erased time resistance to Time Stop. Time Stop and Time not being present/erased are too different things and being in erased time grants no resistance to time stop unless implied thats how that works according to in-verse statements

So Monika still getting affected by Time Stop

Arale would kill Monika in the process of knocking her through a manga panel or something like that, which would make Monika nonexistent and incorporeal yet still alive.

....
What?
First off, for Monika to go NEP, she has to be erased on a Fundamental Level. I.E. Erasure of her File which contains all her Data and Information.
Arale conventionally killing Monika cant trigger NEP because her Data and Information and File is still present and that specifically needs to be erased before she can go NEP.

A conventional death wont trigger NEP nor is their proof or implication of that
Plus Arale does not need to kill Monika....
Social Influencing is enough to get the job done
Or Time Stop and K.O for 24 Hours
Or Time Stop and BFR Monika out of Range

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This is essentially giving Monika resistance to a Myriad of Hax without proof other than......................
She can break out of the script of the world and thus any ability used within the script of her world cannot affect her.........

She needs actual showings or implications of resistance otherwise its a No Go.
Monika's resistance center's around breaking out of the script of the game, in short her plot resistance makes so that the script of the world cannot affect her
But to state that "This ability is used within the script of the world (can apply 101 abilities) and because the script of the world cannot affect her once she breaks through it so can't any other ability. Thats not how this works. Monika has to either prove resistance or it has to be implied in some form otherwise No Go

If Monika is forced to Dance being aware that she is being forced to dance wont prevent her from Dancing
Plot Resistance wont help either because she is not being targeted a Plot Based Ability

I didn't claim that any ability within the script of reality can't affect her. I wrote that the plot manipulation she resists can be considered a better version of Broadway force in essence.

Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm

Arale doesn't directly affect or manipulate people's emotions and feelings
More so she influences their Actions with her charm, demeanor and her own actions/interactions towards them

The Social Influencing page doesn't describe any supernatural attributes about the social influencing ability. If Arale can influence people illogically then I think empathic manipulation better describes the ability.

Nope. Uh-Uh
Sorry buddy but Absolutely NO go
This has been discussed Time and Time again by Staff and Time Erase =/= Time Stop nor do we grant beings who can function in erased time resistance to Time Stop. Time Stop and Time not being present/erased are too different things and being in erased time grants no resistance to time stop unless implied thats how that works according to in-verse statements

So Monika still getting affected by Time Stop

This was about qualifying for infinite speed. I've seen characters be regarded as having a resistance to time stop for less than what Monika did.

....
What?
First off, for Monika to go NEP, she has to be erased on a Fundamental Level. I.E. Erasure of her File which contains all her Data and Information.
Arale conventionally killing Monika cant trigger NEP because her Data and Information and File is still present and that specifically needs to be erased before she can go NEP.

A conventional death wont trigger NEP nor is their proof or implication of that

On Monika's profile: "Repeatedly tried to restore herself after being deleted, which would have worked if her Character File still existed". This suggests she can resurrect herself even without her character file being deleted, which, in regeneration lingo, is resurrection on a high-godly level.

 

[Ss3micah]

I didn't claim that any ability within the script of reality can't affect her. I wrote that the plot manipulation she resists can be considered a better version of Broadway force in essence.

Not really
Nor is there any indication of that....
Her resistance is as follows:
Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall

Broadway force here is in no way inclusive nor relative to Monika's Plot Resistance
The general description for Broadway Force is inclusive of Toon Force:

Also known as "The Music Meister Effect". Broadway Force, previously considered a far more stable variation of Toonforce, is a power certain people can tap into, (usually depicted in the Musical Theater genre) by spontaneously breaking into song and dance, causing everyone and everything around them to became bound by it, and compelled to join in.

Which is another Power Monika doesn't resists.

The Social Influencing page doesn't describe any supernatural attributes about the social influencing ability. If Arale can influence people illogically then I think empathic manipulation better describes the ability.

Maybe, but it was decided as Social Influencing because she does not directly influence or manipulate emotions and feelings but rather influence people and their actions through her demeanor, actions, interactions and her own general stupidity

This was about qualifying for infinite speed. I've seen characters be regarded as having a resistance to time stop for less than what Monika did.

They should in NO WAY have resistance to Time Stop
Case and Point Diovolo from Jojo
He literally has an ability called Time Erase where he functions in erased Time
And you dont see him having Resistance to Time Stop
You can also include on your list numerous Acausal 4 beings who function outside of time
And They dont have resistance to Time Stop Either unless stated or proven


If characters are getting resistance to Time Stop because of functioning in erased time then either some context is missing or they should not have it

On Monika's profile: "Repeatedly tried to restore herself after being deleted, which would have worked if her Character File still existed". This suggests she can resurrect herself even without her character file being deleted, which, in regeneration lingo, is resurrection on a high-godly level.

HGR is overtime
But just to address your point about the resurrection.....
Arale does NOT need to Kill Monika at all
Social Influence works fine into making Arale and Monika friends
Or Time Stop and KO (no amount of regen prevents you from being KOed)
Or Time Stop and BFR Monika somewhere outside of Range

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Not really
Nor is there any indication of that....
Her resistance is as follows:
Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall

Broadway force here is in no way inclusive nor relative to Monika's Plot Resistance
The general description for Broadway Force is inclusive of Toon Force:

Also known as "The Music Meister Effect". Broadway Force, previously considered a far more stable variation of Toonforce, is a power certain people can tap into, (usually depicted in the Musical Theater genre) by spontaneously breaking into song and dance, causing everyone and everything around them to became bound by it, and compelled to join in.

Which is another Power Monika doesn't resists.

Toon force is also an ability that has a lot of nuance. Countless abilities can be products of ones like plot manipulation and toon force. I think I should provide a comparison example to show you what I mean. Imagine there are two characters, Red and Blue. Red is a reality warping character against Blue. Red used this ability in attempt to make it so Blue's capabilities are worsened, so that Blue's punches are slow motion and have no impact. Blue has a resistance to reality warping though, so they get unaffected. The context of that resistance to reality warping is a resistance to physics manipulation, which in turn is also a resistance to power nullification in this case due to the physics manipulation's purpose of nullifying the target's capabilities. What you're writing about Monika is like writing that Blue wouldn't be capable of resisting power nullification if the power nullification is something like making the target lose their ability to breathe automatically. Broadway force, a subset of toon force, is the ability to force characters to dance, which is doing behavior involuntarily. Monika resists the ability to force involuntary behavior because that's how the plot manipulation she resists works. It's not spontaneous and zany like Broadway force but it's the same concept.

Maybe, but it was decided as Social Influencing because she does not directly influence or manipulate emotions and feelings but rather influence people and their actions through her demeanor, actions, interactions and her own general stupidity

Alright I guess, maybe I'm just not imagining the context correctly. I wonder if Monika would care since she knows Arale is fictional. If not, then the social influencing would probably work.

They should in NO WAY have resistance to Time Stop
Case and Point Diovolo from Jojo
He literally has an ability called Time Erase where he functions in erased Time
And you dont see him having Resistance to Time Stop
You can also include on your list numerous Acausal 4 beings who function outside of time
And They dont have resistance to Time Stop Either unless stated or proven


If characters are getting resistance to Time Stop because of functioning in erased time then either some context is missing or they should not have it

He should have a resistance to it if time was literally erased, but if the ability functions more like a time stop ability with a dramatized name, then that character shouldn't get a resistance since he used his own ability. A character with the ability to pause time doesn't necessarily also get a resistance to time stop, since it's assumed that the ability doesn't affect themself, unlike if their ability is to outright remove time. There's no way it can't also affect them unless they can evade the effect on the world somehow.

The idea you're thinking of is how characters don't get infinite speed for moving in timeless voids because time isn't zero, it's inapplicable, so time can't be properly applied to the speed formula. That detail about the speed formula isn't part of the process of determining whether or not a character resists time abilities.

Being beyond cause and effect is better than resisting time stop. Monika's nonexistent/incorporeal state has that form of acausality, and by extension, her ability to affect the command-line interface is also acausal in that way. Monika can do it regardless of her state or the universe's state. If she's physically alive and the universe is fine, or if she's nonexistent and the universe is deleted, the command-line interface functions the same way and Monika was always shown to be able to use her abilities to write in it.

HGR is overtime
But just to address your point about the resurrection.....
Arale does NOT need to Kill Monika at all
Social Influence works fine into making Arale and Monika friends
Or Time Stop and KO (no amount of regen prevents you from being KOed)
Or Time Stop and BFR Monika somewhere outside of Range

I was referring to resurrection. People can use regeneration terminology for resurrection. Monika's resurrection is immediate. She can resurrect the other girls who were erased, which meant getting erased from history, the plot, et cetera. Like I wrote, Monika could do the same to herself, although her demonstration was a fail because her character file was deleted. If she physically died, but didn't get destroyed from history, the plot, et cetera, I don't see how her acasual abilities involving affecting the command-line interface that I mentioned in the previous paragraph wouldn't be able to be used.

Leave the social influencing and time stop for their respective previous sections please.

I already addressed the battlefield removal; physically getting launched through the fourth wall, a wall, isn't something Monika's physical body can survive, so she would die on impact of breaking through a manga panel or something like that. Arale doing this to Monika wouldn't circumvent the resurrection.

 

[Ss3micah]

Toon force is also an ability that has a lot of nuance. Countless abilities can be products of ones like plot manipulation and toon force. I think I should provide a comparison example to show you what I mean. Imagine there are two characters, Red and Blue. Red is a reality warping character against Blue. Red used this ability in attempt to make it so Blue's capabilities are worsened, so that Blue's punches are slow motion and have no impact. Blue has a resistance to reality warping though, so they get unaffected. The context of that resistance to reality warping is a resistance to physics manipulation, which in turn is also a resistance to power nullification in this case due to the physics manipulation's purpose of nullifying the target's capabilities. What you're writing about Monika is like writing that Blue wouldn't be capable of resisting power nullification if the power nullification is something like making the target lose their ability to breathe automatically. Broadway force, a subset of toon force, is the ability to force characters to dance, which is doing behavior involuntarily. Monika resists the ability to force involuntary behavior because that's how the plot manipulation she resists works. It's not spontaneous and zany like Broadway force but it's the same concept.

My guy
Mind Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, Body Puppetry, etc are ALSO abilities that force involuntary behavior.
Are you gonna argue that Monika resists that as well?

There are plenty of hax here that can force Monika to take Involuntary actions. To say Monika can resists all of them with no other proof other than a Plot resistance which makes her ignore the script of the world is WAYYY to much of a stretch. You can invite anyone to the thread and ask them and they will generally tell you the same thing. And Monika's Plot Resistance has no inclinations to Toon Force either so Monika would need some of proof or indication to be able to to resist Toon Force abilities.

Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall.

Alright I guess, maybe I'm just not imagining the context correctly. I wonder if Monika would care since she knows Arale is fictional. If not, then the social influencing would probably work.

First off, Monika knowing Arale is fictional would do what for her exactly?
Arale has her own 4th Wall Breaking which would allow her to know Monica is fictional as well
And knowing arale is a fictional character doesn't stop any of arale's abilities from affecting her

He should have a resistance to it if time was literally erased, but if the ability functions more like a time stop ability with a dramatized name, then that character shouldn't get a resistance since he used his own ability. A character with the ability to pause time doesn't necessarily also get a resistance to time stop, since it's assumed that the ability doesn't affect themself, unlike if their ability is to outright remove time. There's no way it can't also affect them unless they can evade the effect on the world somehow.

The idea you're thinking of is how characters don't get infinite speed for moving in timeless voids because time isn't zero, it's inapplicable, so time can't be properly applied to the speed formula. That detail about the speed formula isn't part of the process of determining whether or not a character resists time abilities.

My Guy....
Im going to make a Q&A asking if functioning in Time Erased/an Area where time is not present grants Time Stop resistance and you'll see the answers that accompanies it.

Being beyond cause and effect is better than resisting time stop. Monika's nonexistent/incorporeal state has that form of acausality, and by extension, her ability to affect the command-line interface is also acausal in that way. Monika can do it regardless of her state or the universe's state. If she's physically alive and the universe is fine, or if she's nonexistent and the universe is deleted, the command-line interface functions the same way and Monika was always shown to be able to use her abilities to write in it.

Im talking Acausal 4 in general
There is a Reason why Acausal 4 in general includes resistance to Causality, Fate, Precognition, etc by default but NEITHER Time Manipulation nor Time Stop are listed as default resistances of Acausal 4
Those need to be proven by context

I was referring to resurrection. People can use regeneration terminology for resurrection. Monika's resurrection is immediate. She can resurrect the other girls who were erased, which meant getting erased from history, the plot, et cetera. Like I wrote, Monika could do the same to herself, although her demonstration was a fail because her character file was deleted. If she physically died, but didn't get destroyed from history, the plot, et cetera, I don't see how her acasual abilities involving affecting the command-line interface that I mentioned in the previous paragraph wouldn't be able to be used.

Leave the social influencing and time stop for their respective previous sections please.

I already addressed the battlefield removal; physically getting launched through the fourth wall, a wall, isn't something Monika's physical body can survive, so she would die on impact of breaking through a manga panel or something like that. Arale doing this to Monika wouldn't circumvent the resurrection.

She can also just BFR Monika into a Story Book World or Digital World with her OE
She has multiple methods of BFR not just sending people across manga panels
Both methods of BFR are painless and would not do a slight amount of damage to monika to trigger Resurrection

 

[Ss3micah]

He should have a resistance to it if time was literally erased, but if the ability functions more like a time stop ability with a dramatized name, then that character shouldn't get a resistance since he used his own ability. A character with the ability to pause time doesn't necessarily also get a resistance to time stop, since it's assumed that the ability doesn't affect themself, unlike if their ability is to outright remove time. There's no way it can't also affect them unless they can evade the effect on the world somehow.

The idea you're thinking of is how characters don't get infinite speed for moving in timeless voids because time isn't zero, it's inapplicable, so time can't be properly applied to the speed formula. That detail about the speed formula isn't part of the process of determining whether or not a character resists time abilities.

Go HERE
Because Clearly you didnt get the point
Functioning in a Timeless Area grants NOTHING

If you want
I can also easily make a CTR that would prove that Monika's Plot Resistance would not grant resistance to Broadway Force nor Toon Force nor any Power meant for her to take Involuntary actions without the implication that her Plot Manipulation resistance specifically functions to counter said powers

So now thats its been clarified that Time Stop CAN affect Monika
All Arale would need to do is social influence GG or Trigger Timestop and then BFR Monika into Fictional World or Digital World
And as far as I see, Monika doesn't have Dimensional Travel nor Immersion once she's BFR'd away she ain't coming back
And because all these Wincons can be reach without Killing Monika...... resurrection plays no factor here either

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

My guy
Mind Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, Body Puppetry, etc are ALSO abilities that force involuntary behavior.
Are you gonna argue that Monika resists that as well?

There are plenty of hax here that can force Monika to take Involuntary actions. To say Monika can resists all of them with no other proof other than a Plot resistance which makes her ignore the script of the world is WAYYY to much of a stretch. You can invite anyone to the thread and ask them and they will generally tell you the same thing. And Monika's Plot Resistance has no inclinations to Toon Force either so Monika would need some of proof or indication to be able to to resist Toon Force abilities.

Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall.

Abilities could have special aspects about them that could change the following, but... Mind manipulation is a subset of Broadway force. Mortality manipulation is a subset of mind manipulation. Body puppetry might work in a way against Monika's physical form since she's just a normal human, but if it affects the mind then no it wouldn't work since that aspect would basically just be mind manipulation. The script of Doki Doki Literature Club dictates how the story will go and how the NPCs behave. If Arale can use plot manipulation to manipulate Monika's behavior, it'd work if it's of higher potency than Monika's resistance, but raw baseline Broadway force is useless against a character who resists being forced to believe and behave a certain way on a metafictional scale.

First off, Monika knowing Arale is fictional would do what for her exactly?
Arale has her own 4th Wall Breaking which would allow her to know Monica is fictional as well
And knowing arale is a fictional character doesn't stop any of arale's abilities from affecting her

I wrote that maybe Monika wouldn't care about Arale's charm since Monika sees other fictional characters like we do, except she's also one and stuck with them. Social influencing isn't supernatural so an opponent could avoid it if their thoughts are in a certain way.

Go HERE
Because Clearly you didnt get the point
Functioning in a Timeless Area grants NOTHING

We still have the fact that Monika's abilities that function the same regardless of if her physical body is alive or not are beyond the script, history, et cetera, which is better than a resistance to time stop. I thought of it wrong at first, but I'm trying to explain to you the general idea that Monika could fight back even if Arale stopped time.

If you want
I can also easily make a CTR that would prove that Monika's Plot Resistance would not grant resistance to Broadway Force nor Toon Force nor any Power meant for her to take Involuntary actions without the implication that her Plot Manipulation resistance specifically functions to counter said powers

If you write it like that, then you'll probably get agreements, but those would be inaccurate, because the people wouldn't know the full context. Just the individual detail of resisting plot manipulation isn't enough to resist Broadway force. It's also definitely not a resistance to toon force, as in the entire idea of that force, because like I wrote, that has a lot of nuance. Broadway force is far more specific.

Im talking Acausal 4 in general
There is a Reason why Acausal 4 in general includes resistance to Causality, Fate, Precognition, etc by default but NEITHER Time Manipulation nor Time Stop are listed as default resistances of Acausal 4
Those need to be proven by context

Causality has an important connection to time. The description for acausality type 4 doesn't mention a resistance to time manipulation because that's needless to write.

She can also just BFR Monika into a Story Book World or Digital World with her OE
She has multiple methods of BFR not just sending people across manga panels
Both methods of BFR are painless and would not do a slight amount of damage to monika to trigger Resurrection

How in character is it for Arale to do that as opposed to hitting Monika though?

 

[Ss3micah]

but... Mind manipulation is a subset of Broadway force.

Where you getting this information from?
Certainly not the Mind and Broadway force pages because Neither states that Mind Manipulation is a subset of Broadway force and Vice Versa.
Despite there applications being similar in controlling peoples actions, Mind Manipulation and Broadway Force are different abilities with different requirements, set ups and executions.

One Involves hacking into a Persons mind and directly controlling it thus controlling their actions
And the other involves influencing a character to sing and dance spontaneously and uncontrollably without the need of mind hacking and is done solely through Music.

Mortality manipulation is a subset of mind manipulation.

This is true enough and having resistance to Mind Hax can grant resistance to Morality Hax but only if the context of the Mind Resistance matches with the Mortality Effect. Mind Resistance by itself doesn't mean Automatic Resistance to Morality Resistance unless the context of how the Mind Resistance functions and how the Morality effect in question aligns.

Body puppetry might work in a way against Monika's physical form since she's just a normal human, but if it affects the mind then no it wouldn't work since that aspect would basically just be mind manipulation.

Unless Monika has a clear and valid resistance to mind manipulation then she is not resisting any form of mind hax
We have had many Monika related debates and never has it been argued that she can resist Mind Hax by sheer resistance of Plot Manipulation
Monika being able to break free of the script of her world =/= her mind in immutable against mind hax
Your literally the first person to ever argue this

The script of Doki Doki Literature Club dictates how the story will go and how the NPCs behave. If Arale can use plot manipulation to manipulate Monika's behavior, it'd work if it's of higher potency than Monika's resistance, but raw baseline Broadway force is useless against a character who resists being forced to believe and behave a certain way on a metafictional scale.

First off
Arale's Broadway force has affected numerous characters from her own verse.
All of which have 4th Wall Awareness on the Metafiction scale and most of which are aware they are fictional characters and have complete awareness of the plot
Secondly, Broadway Force is layered as she has affected a character that is resistant to Broadway force before
Third, ask anyone here..... if being aware of a fictional setup can give you mind resistance of being free from the script also gives you Mind Resistance
They will all tell you "No"

I wrote that maybe Monika wouldn't care about Arale's charm since Monika sees other fictional characters like we do, except she's also one and stuck with them.

This places no weight nor any factor on the fight
Monika seeing Arale like how you and I see here influences the fight in no way other than Monika knowing Arale is a fictional character
And Arale is pretty much the same since her 4th wall awareness would let her know Monika is a fictional game character and see her as such as well

Social influencing isn't supernatural so an opponent could avoid it if their thoughts are in a certain way.

In Monika's case
There is nothing she can do to stop nor counter social influencing
Especially considering that naturally, Monika in human form does not start of hostile nor malevolent
And Social Influencing not being Supernatural in nature is gonna stop it from working since Social Influencing works through being Illogical

We still have the fact that Monika's abilities that function the same regardless of if her physical body is alive or not are beyond the script, history, et cetera, which is better than a resistance to time stop. I thought of it wrong at first, but I'm trying to explain to you the general idea that Monika could fight back even if Arale stopped time.

Unless their is some definite reason of why she can resist Time Stop here then she cant
And their is no time stop resistance on Monika's profile so arguing she can resist time stop is unnecessary and irrelevant since the Rules of the Wiki states you cant argue abilities or resistances that are not present on profile

If you wanna give Monika some level of Time Stop resistance then make a CTR to have it added otherwise stop arguing that she can because going by the profile she cannot

If you write it like that, then you'll probably get agreements, but those would be inaccurate, because the people wouldn't know the full context. Just the individual detail of resisting plot manipulation isn't enough to resist Broadway force. It's also definitely not a resistance to toon force, as in the entire idea of that force, because like I wrote, that has a lot of nuance. Broadway force is far more specific.

Their is nothing on Monika's profile that specifically inclines she could resists Broadway force at all
Nothing explicit nor anything implied. Monika plot resistance simply allows her to break her from the scrip of the world (The PLOT of the world) and essentially your trying to action Nuance connection plot manipulation ties into Broadway force then she can resist that. SHE CAN'T
Unless their is something explicit that states or implies that Monika can resists Broadway Force then she cant and having Plot Resistance only means she cant be affected by Plot Based Powers. Broadway Force has more Nuance to Toon Force more than anything else and connecting Broadway Force to Plot Manipulation is an unsupported claim here that you cant provide IN VERSE context or statements to provide back up for.

Causality has an important connection to time. The description for acausality type 4 doesn't mention a resistance to time manipulation because that's needless to write.

Do I need to make another Q and A to prove that Acausal 4 do not resist Time Manipulation and Time Stop?
Because clearly your pushing a narrative that literally no one supports
Acausal 4 do not resist Time Manipulation nor Time Stop innately
In verse context needs to be brought forward to support that claim

Not sure why this is being discussed here when Monika doesn't even start with Acausal 4 regardless

How in character is it for Arale to do that as opposed to hitting Monika though?

Very
Considering every time arale gets a new toy (Optional Equipment) her first instinct is to spam it to no end

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Where you getting this information from?
Certainly not the Mind and Broadway force pages because Neither states that Mind Manipulation is a subset of Broadway force and Vice Versa.
Despite there applications being similar in controlling peoples actions, Mind Manipulation and Broadway Force are different abilities with different requirements, set ups and executions.

One Involves hacking into a Persons mind and directly controlling it thus controlling their actions
And the other involves influencing a character to sing and dance spontaneously and uncontrollably without the need of mind hacking and is done solely through Music.

That "influencing a character to sing and dance spontaneously and uncontrollably" describes the ability affecting their mind, unless the character being influenced shows that they don't want to be dancing, which in that case would signify that the ability is similar to body puppetry without the mental control aspect. Often Broadway force is inducing a character to have the urge to willingly dance. The ability to supernaturally induce an urge in a character is mind manipulation.

This is true enough and having resistance to Mind Hax can grant resistance to Morality Hax but only if the context of the Mind Resistance matches with the Mortality Effect. Mind Resistance by itself doesn't mean Automatic Resistance to Morality Resistance unless the context of how the Mind Resistance functions and how the Morality effect in question aligns.

Yeah, which is the same concept as Monika's resistance to plot manipulation involving the same kind of functions as Broadway force.

Unless Monika has a clear and valid resistance to mind manipulation then she is not resisting any form of mind hax
We have had many Monika related debates and never has it been argued that she can resist Mind Hax by sheer resistance of Plot Manipulation
Monika being able to break free of the script of her world =/= her mind in immutable against mind hax
Your literally the first person to ever argue this

It's something I just realized, because it's not clearly described on Monika's profile. I'm still using accepted information that's on the profile, as demonstrated by what I wrote in the next section: "The script of Doki Doki Literature Club dictates how the story will go and how the NPCs behave. [...] raw baseline Broadway force is useless against a character who resists being forced to believe and behave a certain way on a metafictional scale."

First off
Arale's Broadway force has affected numerous characters from her own verse.
All of which have 4th Wall Awareness on the Metafiction scale and most of which are aware they are fictional characters and have complete awareness of the plot
Secondly, Broadway Force is layered as she has affected a character that is resistant to Broadway force before
Third, ask anyone here..... if being aware of a fictional setup can give you mind resistance of being free from the script also gives you Mind Resistance
They will all tell you "No"

Being fourth wall aware doesn't mean a character has a resistance to plot manipulation unless the fictional work provides that added context, which is the case for Monika. What you wrote here doesn't answer: "The script of Doki Doki Literature Club dictates how the story will go and how the NPCs behave. [...] raw baseline Broadway force is useless against a character who resists being forced to believe and behave a certain way on a metafictional scale." Arale successfully using Broadway force against fourth wall aware characters is meaningless if those fourth wall aware characters don't have a resistance to plot manipulation.

This places no weight nor any factor on the fight
Monika seeing Arale like how you and I see here influences the fight in no way other than Monika knowing Arale is a fictional character
And Arale is pretty much the same since her 4th wall awareness would let her know Monika is a fictional game character and see her as such as well

In Monika's case
There is nothing she can do to stop nor counter social influencing
Especially considering that naturally, Monika in human form does not start of hostile nor malevolent
And Social Influencing not being Supernatural in nature is gonna stop it from working since Social Influencing works through being Illogical

It definitely factors into the fight. If a character's win condition is to be charming because of innocence, humorously displaying their illogical capabilities, et cetera, without that tactic directly supernaturally influencing the opponents emotions, then the opponent can absolutely just not be affected by that at all if they have a mindset that allows them to see through that tactic. Claiming that Monika would be charmed by Arale in a way that lets Arale win is like writing that a real life person would want to genuinely be friends with Arale because they like her style, which is out of character for Monika. Monika sees her club members like fictional character she has fond memories of, and she regarded their deletions as like her killing fictional characters in a video game instead of killing people equal to her. Monika would see Arale's social influencing as something cute like how you or I would, not like in a way that would want her to stop fighting Arale and be friends with her.

Unless their is some definite reason of why she can resist Time Stop here then she cant
And their is no time stop resistance on Monika's profile so arguing she can resist time stop is unnecessary and irrelevant since the Rules of the Wiki states you cant argue abilities or resistances that are not present on profile

If you wanna give Monika some level of Time Stop resistance then make a CTR to have it added otherwise stop arguing that she can because going by the profile she cannot

I already moved on from that; what you quoted was me writing about acausality type 4. Although the profile only states that it applies to her nonexistent/incorporeal state, that's only related to whether or not she is physical. Monika's ability to influence the command-line interface logically should function in a way that's acausal.

Their is nothing on Monika's profile that specifically inclines she could resists Broadway force at all
Nothing explicit nor anything implied. Monika plot resistance simply allows her to break her from the scrip of the world (The PLOT of the world) and essentially your trying to action Nuance connection plot manipulation ties into Broadway force then she can resist that. SHE CAN'T
Unless their is something explicit that states or implies that Monika can resists Broadway Force then she cant and having Plot Resistance only means she cant be affected by Plot Based Powers. Broadway Force has more Nuance to Toon Force more than anything else and connecting Broadway Force to Plot Manipulation is an unsupported claim here that you cant provide IN VERSE context or statements to provide back up for.

It's the same concept as morality manipulation being a subset of mind manipulation, so characters who resist mind manipulation usually don't get affected by morality manipulation. The fashion in which Monika resists plot manipulation means she probably resists Broadway force too. This detail doesn't need to be spoon-fed to us by the fictional work for it to be true. Similarly to toon force, plot manipulation has nuance. You wouldn't write that a character doesn't resist transmutation if they resisted plot manipulation that is used to turn characters into different objects, right? The reason Monika was able to use empathic manipulation on Sayori and Yuri is because she edited them to amplify their negative traits, and Monika's actions being beyond the script of the Doki Doki Literature Club world means she's beyond this kind of supernatural behavioral editing. If Monika didn't resist plot manipulation, then the game would have kept her beliefs and behavior in check as the "class star" character giving guidance to the player about literature and socially interacting with the other members of the club. Monika's profile doesn't give a huge list of all the abilities Monika resists as a result of her resistance to plot manipulation because that's needless to write.

Do I need to make another Q and A to prove that Acausal 4 do not resist Time Manipulation and Time Stop?
Because clearly your pushing a narrative that literally no one supports
Acausal 4 do not resist Time Manipulation nor Time Stop innately
In verse context needs to be brought forward to support that claim

This doesn't answer what I wrote. I wrote that a character having acausality type 4 means they have an irregular causality and they have a resistance to causality manipulation, which the Acausality page states, which you acknowledged, and I'm telling you that having those attributes that the Acausality page states means that a character has a resistance to time manipulation, because causality and time have an important connection to each other. There can be no effects without a flow of time to turn causes into them. There's no need to make a Q&A thread asking about this. A character having irregular causality means they function on a different system of causality, meaning they aren't bound to the fact that, in a normal world, causes lead to the present going further in the timeline to lead to certain effects while making the future the new present.

The previous paragraph applies to Monika's mental ability to affect the command-line interface. The command-line interface is beyond the DDLC universe, being able to affect history across the whole game, control the very information in the game (universe), et cetera. Monika being able to mentally influence the command-line interface when she doesn't have a brain as a nonexistent entity means her mind can use the abilities regardless of physique, and her nonexistent physiology/incorporeality has acausality type 4 listed on her profile. So, because of her irregular causality, Monika would be able to use her mind and non-physical abilities even if Arale were to stop time.

Very
Considering every time arale gets a new toy (Optional Equipment) her first instinct is to spam it to no end

Aha, so Arale does have a way to win then, if this is true. I'm leaning more towards her winning then. Arale seems more experienced with this stuff anyway.

 

[Ss3micah]

That "influencing a character to sing and dance spontaneously and uncontrollably" describes the ability affecting their mind, unless the character being influenced shows that they don't want to be dancing, which in that case would signify that the ability is similar to body puppetry without the mental control aspect. Often Broadway force is inducing a character to have the urge to willingly dance. The ability to supernaturally induce an urge in a character is mind manipulation.

The fact your assuming that Broadway Force is some form of Mind Manipulation is completely unsubstantiated considering that the page itself mentions that the Roots of Broadway force is unknown
Quote from the Page:
It is unknown whether or not it is a telepathy power, a hypnotic tune, or a magic enchantment, but for everything in between, we have The Broadway Force.

Broadway Force being some form of Mind Manipulation of Body Puppetry is an assumption on your part considering the Wiki's own page states that the Roots for Broadway force is pretty much Unknown. I WILL ADMIT that Broadway Force has some supernatural aspect (somewhat) but stating that Broadway Force is some form of Mind Manipulation is an unfounded notion that is not supported by anyone. You definitely wont be hearing people call Broadway Force some inherit mind manipulation and even then Monika doesn't resist Mind Manipulation so Moot Point

Yeah, which is the same concept as Monika's resistance to plot manipulation involving the same kind of functions as Broadway force.

...
Monika's resistance reads:
Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall.

Broadway Force reads:
Is a power certain people can tap into by spontaneously breaking into song and dance, causing everyone and everything around them to became bound by it, and compelled to join in.

Help me understand because Im not seeing it:
What part of "I'm resistant to the script of the game" automatically means "I can resist another characters ability to force me to sing and dance" or "I can resist another characters ability to force control over my mind and/or my body to make me commit actions I dont want to"

Again this is not how it works here. I can get staff here to confirm this that unless Monika's Plot RESISTANCE has explicit ties to Broadway Force or Mental Manipulation powers then she is not gonna resist them at all. Plot Resistance is only meant to resist exactly that...... plot based powers. And this roundabout argument your making for Monika to resist Broadway Force is not substantiated nor proven but rather something Semantic.

Call Staff
I dare you call any staff
They will back up what I'm saying here

It's something I just realized, because it's not clearly described on Monika's profile. I'm still using accepted information that's on the profile, as demonstrated by what I wrote in the next section: "The script of Doki Doki Literature Club dictates how the story will go and how the NPCs behave. [...] raw baseline Broadway force is useless against a character who resists being forced to believe and behave a certain way on a metafictional scale."

You know what.....
Playing devil's advocate here....
This still would do no good against Arale considering her Broadway Force is Layered as it has worked on Characters that resist Broadway Force and has worked against other characters that Resist Layers of Plot Manipulation such as Gatchan

So again....
Why is Monika resisting Broadway Force exactly when her Plot Resistance is only Baseline and again..... no clear and explicit resistance to Mind Hax nor Body Puppetry nor Broadway Force

It definitely factors into the fight. If a character's win condition is to be charming because of innocence, humorously displaying their illogical capabilities, et cetera, without that tactic directly supernaturally influencing the opponents emotions, then the opponent can absolutely just not be affected by that at all if they have a mindset that allows them to see through that tactic. Claiming that Monika would be charmed by Arale in a way that lets Arale win is like writing that a real life person would want to genuinely be friends with Arale because they like her style, which is out of character for Monika. Monika sees her club members like fictional character she has fond memories of, and she regarded their deletions as like her killing fictional characters in a video game instead of killing people equal to her. Monika would see Arale's social influencing as something cute like how you or I would, not like in a way that would want her to stop fighting Arale and be friends with her.

You have completely misunderstood how Social Influencing works
In general, Social Influencing works in accordance to how the user uses it in their own Verse
For Example Sally Acorn
Take a look at her feats of Social Influencing

Social Influencing Interrupted and defused a fight[29] between Sonic and Monkey Khan, who both carried over their conflict from over a year ago.[3] Held her hatred back and easily fished information out of Drago Wolf,[30] who she still held resentment towards for years after he planned an assassination attempt on her[31] and setting her love interest Sonic up to take the fall for the murder,[32] knowing to prioritize the mission over her own emotions. Convinced Monkey Khan to act more selflessly and be a true hero (while he was kidnapping her).[33] Convinced Geoffrey to stop fighting back on her first try[34] with blunt reasoning, after seeing his martial arts capabilities outperformed her Freedom Fighters (minus Sonic). Turned her own kidnapping around on Nack,[23] leaving behind a mental scar.[35] Eased the brutality brought on from King Shadow’s[36] regime with her influence. Confronted and negotiated with Enchantra to send herself and Sonic home and to leave their reality alone[37] while at the same time, stopping Sonic from acting on his anger. Talked her way out of being charged for treason by the Council of Acorn.[1] Reconciled two generational warring factions of their differences for peace,[30] which annoyed Dr. Eggman when he would arrive to invade the region.[27] Denied Ixis Naugus’s claims to the Kingdom of Acorn as their King as soon as she heard about it,[38] giving solid reason for why. Naugus would later return using the same claim to the Crown[39] successfully in Sally’s abstinence as Mecha Sally, with assistance from the Council of Acorn despite Sonic's best efforts.[34] Ended a Civil War led by Elias Acorn (who is King at this point) and Amadeus Prower at its infancy, on top of establishing a new form of government to unite the 2 sides at the same time, which led to the formation of the Council of Acorn, a government structure based on the system Sally herself created during the 1st Robotnik War as a child. Tricked Dr. Robotnik Prime into believing his dangerous Auto-Automatons were flawed, when they were actually perfect. They would not show up again in any form till his successor Dr. Eggman Mach 2, having the Auto-Automatons in his past, created the Infiltrators from scratch.

Her Social Influencing is not some supernatural ability that allows her to talk her way into winning. Her social influencing is her putting her Voice, Speech, Leadership and Diplomacy skills into effect. Its not some mind manipulation or of any kind. Its exactly how the page describes it:
Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm. This has several uses in the form of manipulation. Whether it be to manipulate how an opponent fights, thinks, or to get info from them that the user would want or need. This can be used in a number of ways via their looks, natural charm, or their way of speaking.

Sally DOES NOT supernaturally affect her opponents in anyway. Its just through her way of speaking, acting and thinking, she can influence the actions of highly intelligent characters and supernatural beings with resistance to mind manipulation and turn any situation around.

In Arale's Case, she uses her innate stupidity to influence those around her into being her friends and following her commands
Characters can be defiant towards her, apprehensive towards her, aggressive towards her and even malevolent towards her and her stupidity will always immediately influence them into being her friends and following her commands. And even more than Sally, Arale's Social Influencing is an Illogical Ability which I guess you can call super natural.

Point being, how a character uses Social Influencing and its feats will always take precedence. If Monika were challenging Sally, you could not argue that since Sally Social Influencing is not supernatural then it wouldn't work against Monika if all Monika had to do was say "No" to it. Monika would be influenced completely by Sally according to Sally's feats of Influencing characters more smarter, haxier, more Bloodthirsty and powerful than Monika even thou Sally's Social Influencing has NO supernatural inclinations

Arale on the other hands whose Social Influencing is tied to her Illogical Nature (Toon Force) and Stupidity has Supernatural Inclinations to say the least and for Monika to resist she would need feats of either resisting or beating another characters social influencing or be in a state of mind that Arale has no feats of influencing. Monika naturally is not hostile nor malevolent so she would be influenced easily and even if she was Arale has influenced those actively trying to bring her harm numerous times before. And Monika has no feats of resisting being socially influenced so GG. FEATS matter here you know..... not semantic assumptions but SOLID feats and in terms of being influenced..... Monika has no feats of resisting Social Influence in any degree. Natsuki and Yuri have no social influencing to speak of so they dont even factor here either. It doesn't matter what Monika would see it as it matters if Monika has the feats to resist and she does not. Monika seeing Arale as a fictional character like Natsuki and Yuri would not make her chances of resisting an ability she has no feats of resisting any better either. Unless you have ACTUAL feats of Monika resisting Social Influencing then you literally cannot argue that she can. Be it the Social Influencing have any form of Supernatural Inclination or Not

I already moved on from that; what you quoted was me writing about acausality type 4. Although the profile only states that it applies to her nonexistent/incorporeal state, that's only related to whether or not she is physical. Monika's ability to influence the command-line interface logically should function in a way that's acausal.

I've said it before and I'll say it again
Monika in her human form does not have Acausal 4
And unless she has feats, then being in a timeless area doesnt give her Time Stop resistance either
Their is nth concrete here that you can produce to say Monika resists Time Stop so guess what...
She does not

It's the same concept as morality manipulation being a subset of mind manipulation, so characters who resist mind manipulation usually don't get affected by morality manipulation. The fashion in which Monika resists plot manipulation means she probably resists Broadway force too. This detail doesn't need to be spoon-fed to us by the fictional work for it to be true. Similarly to toon force, plot manipulation has nuance. You wouldn't write that a character doesn't resist transmutation if they resisted plot manipulation that is used to turn characters into different objects, right? The reason Monika was able to use empathic manipulation on Sayori and Yuri is because she edited them to amplify their negative traits, and Monika's actions being beyond the script of the Doki Doki Literature Club world means she's beyond this kind of supernatural behavioral editing. If Monika didn't resist plot manipulation, then the game would have kept her beliefs and behavior in check as the "class star" character giving guidance to the player about literature and socially interacting with the other members of the club. Monika's profile doesn't give a huge list of all the abilities Monika resists as a result of her resistance to plot manipulation because that's needless to write.

Sir
On the Wiki
We use feats here
If there is no supporting feats or implications that she can resist Broadway Force other than
She can resist Plot Manipulation that allows her to break the script of the world
Then she gets affected
Like Mind Hax, Like Body Puppetry, Like Any Other power of Mental or Physical Manipualtion

I dont expected to spoonfed but we have rules here and they are to be followed
One of those is that we dont allow character to resist abilities not on their profile
Another is assuming that because Plot Manipulation has Nuance then resisting Plot means you resist Broadway Force when your resistance never implies anything to do with Broadway Force.
Nuance is not something we allow here Typically
The evidence for a claim needs to be based on solid evidence or at least partial solid evidence AND ONCE THAT IS CONFRMED it needs to be APPLIED to the profile THEN it can be used.
Monika has NOTHING DEFINITE KEY WORD DEFINITE to state she can resist Broadway Force or any other Mental Powers and your only argument that she can is via the nuance between Plot Manipulation and Broadway Force and again............ Monika's Plot resistance never mentions nor remotely implies Broadway force being apart of it.

We use Evidence here Sir and unless you have something solid to bring to the table and apply to Monika that she can resist Broadway Force then guess what...
She can't
And I Dare you to bring any staff here
They will support my point here

This doesn't answer what I wrote. I wrote that a character having acausality type 4 means they have an irregular causality and they have a resistance to causality manipulation, which the Acausality page states, which you acknowledged, and I'm telling you that having those attributes that the Acausality page states means that a character has a resistance to time manipulation, because causality and time have an important connection to each other. There can be no effects without a flow of time to turn causes into them. There's no need to make a Q&A thread asking about this. A character having irregular causality means they function on a different system of causality, meaning they aren't bound to the fact that, in a normal world, causes lead to the present going further in the timeline to lead to certain effects while making the future the new present.

A made the Q and A and guess what
Staff has supported my stance yet again that unless their is EXPLICIT in verse context then innately
Acausal 4 DOES NOT resist Time Stop and Time Manipulation

The previous paragraph applies to Monika's mental ability to affect the command-line interface. The command-line interface is beyond the DDLC universe, being able to affect history across the whole game, control the very information in the game (universe), et cetera. Monika being able to mentally influence the command-line interface when she doesn't have a brain as a nonexistent entity means her mind can use the abilities regardless of physique, and her nonexistent physiology/incorporeality has acausality type 4 listed on her profile. So, because of her irregular causality, Monika would be able to use her mind and non-physical abilities even if Arale were to stop time.

Time Stop would not affect Monika in her nonexistent state but NOT for that reason
But because Monika has BDE which makes her naturally resistant to Time Manipulation
Human Monika however? Good Luck

Aha, so Arale does have a way to win then, if this is true. I'm leaning more towards her winning then. Arale seems more experienced with this stuff anyway.

She has alot of ways to win thats for sure

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

The fact your assuming that Broadway Force is some form of Mind Manipulation is completely unsubstantiated considering that the page itself mentions that the Roots of Broadway force is unknown
Quote from the Page:
It is unknown whether or not it is a telepathy power, a hypnotic tune, or a magic enchantment, but for everything in between, we have The Broadway Force.

Broadway Force being some form of Mind Manipulation of Body Puppetry is an assumption on your part considering the Wiki's own page states that the Roots for Broadway force is pretty much Unknown. I WILL ADMIT that Broadway Force has some supernatural aspect (somewhat) but stating that Broadway Force is some form of Mind Manipulation is an unfounded notion that is not supported by anyone. You definitely wont be hearing people call Broadway Force some inherit mind manipulation and even then Monika doesn't resist Mind Manipulation so Moot Point

The official page considering Broadway force's exact nature unknown doesn't mean there aren't valid interpretations, such as the possible ones it lists. I didn't claim that it's inherently mind manipulation; like I wrote before, sometimes it's akin to body puppetry without the mental manipulation, since sometimes we see characters affected by Broadway force confused as to why they're dancing.

...
Monika's resistance reads:
Managed to break out of the script of the game via her knowledge of the Fourth Wall.

Broadway Force reads:
Is a power certain people can tap into by spontaneously breaking into song and dance, causing everyone and everything around them to became bound by it, and compelled to join in.

Help me understand because Im not seeing it:
What part of "I'm resistant to the script of the game" automatically means "I can resist another characters ability to force me to sing and dance" or "I can resist another characters ability to force control over my mind and/or my body to make me commit actions I dont want to"

Again this is not how it works here. I can get staff here to confirm this that unless Monika's Plot RESISTANCE has explicit ties to Broadway Force or Mental Manipulation powers then she is not gonna resist them at all. Plot Resistance is only meant to resist exactly that...... plot based powers. And this roundabout argument your making for Monika to resist Broadway Force is not substantiated nor proven but rather something Semantic.

Call Staff
I dare you call any staff
They will back up what I'm saying here

You're underestimating what the "script" is that Monika is unaffected by. If you call a reliable staff member for input about this matter, they would write something like that it depends on the nature of the plot manipulation, which means I'm correct. If they would write that you're correct because a resistance to plot manipulation doesn't necessarily mean a resistance to Broadway force or mind manipulation, then they didn't look deep enough into what the resistance to plot manipulation is in this case.

You know what.....
Playing devil's advocate here....
This still would do no good against Arale considering her Broadway Force is Layered as it has worked on Characters that resist Broadway Force and has worked against other characters that Resist Layers of Plot Manipulation such as Gatchan

Is it on a conceptual level and cosmological informational level though? It being layered on a narrative level doesn't mean it covers all the requirements for killing Monika. I'm pretty sure this is the only reason this matchup isn't a stomp in Arale's favor.

So again....
Why is Monika resisting Broadway Force exactly when her Plot Resistance is only Baseline and again..... no clear and explicit resistance to Mind Hax nor Body Puppetry nor Broadway Force

It's because of how the script works in the Doki Doki Literature Club world. Can you please not continuously multiply the amount of sections I need to reiterate this in? We're already discussing this in other sections.

You have completely misunderstood how Social Influencing works
In general, Social Influencing works in accordance to how the user uses it in their own Verse
For Example Sally Acorn
Take a look at her feats of Social Influencing

Social Influencing Interrupted and defused a fight[29] between Sonic and Monkey Khan, who both carried over their conflict from over a year ago.[3] Held her hatred back and easily fished information out of Drago Wolf,[30] who she still held resentment towards for years after he planned an assassination attempt on her[31] and setting her love interest Sonic up to take the fall for the murder,[32] knowing to prioritize the mission over her own emotions. Convinced Monkey Khan to act more selflessly and be a true hero (while he was kidnapping her).[33] Convinced Geoffrey to stop fighting back on her first try[34] with blunt reasoning, after seeing his martial arts capabilities outperformed her Freedom Fighters (minus Sonic). Turned her own kidnapping around on Nack,[23] leaving behind a mental scar.[35] Eased the brutality brought on from King Shadow’s[36] regime with her influence. Confronted and negotiated with Enchantra to send herself and Sonic home and to leave their reality alone[37] while at the same time, stopping Sonic from acting on his anger. Talked her way out of being charged for treason by the Council of Acorn.[1] Reconciled two generational warring factions of their differences for peace,[30] which annoyed Dr. Eggman when he would arrive to invade the region.[27] Denied Ixis Naugus’s claims to the Kingdom of Acorn as their King as soon as she heard about it,[38] giving solid reason for why. Naugus would later return using the same claim to the Crown[39] successfully in Sally’s abstinence as Mecha Sally, with assistance from the Council of Acorn despite Sonic's best efforts.[34] Ended a Civil War led by Elias Acorn (who is King at this point) and Amadeus Prower at its infancy, on top of establishing a new form of government to unite the 2 sides at the same time, which led to the formation of the Council of Acorn, a government structure based on the system Sally herself created during the 1st Robotnik War as a child. Tricked Dr. Robotnik Prime into believing his dangerous Auto-Automatons were flawed, when they were actually perfect. They would not show up again in any form till his successor Dr. Eggman Mach 2, having the Auto-Automatons in his past, created the Infiltrators from scratch.

Her Social Influencing is not some supernatural ability that allows her to talk her way into winning. Her social influencing is her putting her Voice, Speech, Leadership and Diplomacy skills into effect. Its not some mind manipulation or of any kind. Its exactly how the page describes it:
Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm. This has several uses in the form of manipulation. Whether it be to manipulate how an opponent fights, thinks, or to get info from them that the user would want or need. This can be used in a number of ways via their looks, natural charm, or their way of speaking.

Sally DOES NOT supernaturally affect her opponents in anyway. Its just through her way of speaking, acting and thinking, she can influence the actions of highly intelligent characters and supernatural beings with resistance to mind manipulation and turn any situation around.

In Arale's Case, she uses her innate stupidity to influence those around her into being her friends and following her commands
Characters can be defiant towards her, apprehensive towards her, aggressive towards her and even malevolent towards her and her stupidity will always immediately influence them into being her friends and following her commands. And even more than Sally, Arale's Social Influencing is an Illogical Ability which I guess you can call super natural.

Point being, how a character uses Social Influencing and its feats will always take precedence. If Monika were challenging Sally, you could not argue that since Sally Social Influencing is not supernatural then it wouldn't work against Monika if all Monika had to do was say "No" to it. Monika would be influenced completely by Sally according to Sally's feats of Influencing characters more smarter, haxier, more Bloodthirsty and powerful than Monika even thou Sally's Social Influencing has NO supernatural inclinations

Arale on the other hands whose Social Influencing is tied to her Illogical Nature (Toon Force) and Stupidity has Supernatural Inclinations to say the least and for Monika to resist she would need feats of either resisting or beating another characters social influencing or be in a state of mind that Arale has no feats of influencing. Monika naturally is not hostile nor malevolent so she would be influenced easily and even if she was Arale has influenced those actively trying to bring her harm numerous times before. And Monika has no feats of resisting being socially influenced so GG. FEATS matter here you know..... not semantic assumptions but SOLID feats and in terms of being influenced..... Monika has no feats of resisting Social Influence in any degree. Natsuki and Yuri have no social influencing to speak of so they dont even factor here either. It doesn't matter what Monika would see it as it matters if Monika has the feats to resist and she does not. Monika seeing Arale as a fictional character like Natsuki and Yuri would not make her chances of resisting an ability she has no feats of resisting any better either. Unless you have ACTUAL feats of Monika resisting Social Influencing then you literally cannot argue that she can. Be it the Social Influencing have any form of Supernatural Inclination or Not

I'm not writing what you think I am. My entire point is that social influencing is not supernatural, in fact. If it's an illogical ability for Arale, making it supernatural, then it's more than just social influencing. In the case that it's not supernatural and just social influencing, which is what I was thinking of it as, I wrote that characters are capable of disregarding social influencing if they have the right mindset to do so. Your answer completely ignored that, plus it ignored me describing Monika's outlook in relation to other characters. Monika wouldn't be affected by Sally Acorn's social influencing, but that's not simply because she could just say no, it's because she has the right mindset to simply say no, and would know that anything Sally would say is just her following the script of something greater than her, which Monika thinks is depressing. Monika would take someone seriously if they are "real" to the standards that she is fictional. Also, don't misinterpret this as me claiming that a character being fourth wall aware gives them a resistance to social influencing; I'm writing that Monika in particular would behave this way because of the outlook she has demonstrated.

On the topic of a character needing feats, a character doesn't need to be against an opponent to demonstrate a mindset that could potentially be used against one. When information is stated, it can be used as evidence, especially when it's clear. As a simple comparison, if a professional fighter character is stated to never give in to temptation in battle, but has never demonstrated this due to none of their opponents trying such a tactic, we can still infer that if the character were to be up against an opponent manipulatively offering a gift as social influencing, which has been shown to pacify random street goons or something lesser than the professional fighter character, the professional fighter character wouldn't abandon their sentiment just because they lack feats of directly denying the social influencing of opponents.

I should point out that Standard Battle Assumptions state that the combatants view each other as enemies in a battle, so don't write that Monika isn't hostile by default. The combatants wouldn't be discovering that they're enemies, they'd be going at each other as soon as the battle starts.

I've said it before and I'll say it again
Monika in her human form does not have Acausal 4
And unless she has feats, then being in a timeless area doesnt give her Time Stop resistance either
Their is nth concrete here that you can produce to say Monika resists Time Stop so guess what...
She does not

I've already explained how Monika's acausality type 4 can be deduced to apply to her mind, and how it applies to her abilities.

Sir
On the Wiki
We use feats here
If there is no supporting feats or implications that she can resist Broadway Force other than
She can resist Plot Manipulation that allows her to break the script of the world
Then she gets affected
Like Mind Hax, Like Body Puppetry, Like Any Other power of Mental or Physical Manipualtion

I dont expected to spoonfed but we have rules here and they are to be followed
One of those is that we dont allow character to resist abilities not on their profile
Another is assuming that because Plot Manipulation has Nuance then resisting Plot means you resist Broadway Force when your resistance never implies anything to do with Broadway Force.
Nuance is not something we allow here Typically
The evidence for a claim needs to be based on solid evidence or at least partial solid evidence AND ONCE THAT IS CONFRMED it needs to be APPLIED to the profile THEN it can be used.
Monika has NOTHING DEFINITE KEY WORD DEFINITE to state she can resist Broadway Force or any other Mental Powers and your only argument that she can is via the nuance between Plot Manipulation and Broadway Force and again............ Monika's Plot resistance never mentions nor remotely implies Broadway force being apart of it.

We use Evidence here Sir and unless you have something solid to bring to the table and apply to Monika that she can resist Broadway Force then guess what...
She can't
And I Dare you to bring any staff here
They will support my point here

I am using feats. Like I wrote in a previous section, you're underestimating what it means for Monika to be unbounded by the script of the Doki Doki Literature Club world. I've explained it in previous messages, so I recommend that you retrospect my messages. My analogy still holds up regardless of what you wrote. If a character has a resistance to mind manipulation in a way that would suggest a resistance to morality manipulation, a fictional work doesn't have to spoon-feed you information and explicitly state that a resistance to morality manipulation also falls under that resistance for it to be true. Likewise, if a character has a resistance to plot manipulation which was used to control the beliefs and behaviors of characters, a fictional work doesn't have to spoon-feed you information and explicitly state that a resistance to other similar abilities also fall under that resistance for it to be true.

Nuance is certainly something typically allowed here. Many abilities featured on the VS Battles Wiki fundamentally have nuance as a result of them having no real life concept to be compared to or them having extremely vast applications.

What I wrote about your first dare to call staff for clarification in a previous section also applies to this one.

A made the Q and A and guess what
Staff has supported my stance yet again that unless their is EXPLICIT in verse context then innately
Acausal 4 DOES NOT resist Time Stop and Time Manipulation

Time Stop would not affect Monika in her nonexistent state but NOT for that reason
But because Monika has BDE which makes her naturally resistant to Time Manipulation
Human Monika however? Good Luck

I saw the thread, and you only included my claim, without the justification, so no one needed to think outside the box. Perhaps, having irregular causality technically doesn't inherently come with being beyond time, but it's extremely rare to find a character who doesn't have that context. Like I expect from most characters, the acausality type 4 that applies to Monika does have the context of being beyond time, and not just because of beyond-dimensional existence, but because of being beyond the script of the DDLC world which is also being beyond its time (regardless of if it's deleted or not). (Hopefully you recognize that this is another instance of you underestimating what it means to be beyond the script.) It indeed doesn't apply to her physique, but I've explained how it can be deduced that it applies to her mind.