Devil's Advocate:
This here, is essentially giving Monika resistance to a power that has NEVER been displayed by anyone within the scope of her own verse, resistance to a Power Monika is NOT aware of due to it not existing in her own verse and resistance to a Power without FEATS to suggest she counteract it. How do we know Monika can effectively a character like Sally's social influencing? Just because she would know she's a fictional character and in her mind she's adhering to some script that Monika would know about? The idea has Merit but BY ITSELF it's not enough
Social influencing isn't a power. Having a resistance to it and being able to circumvent it are not the same. A fictional work has to have zero dialogue for social influencing to be beyond its scope.
I could stop at the previous three sentences, but I need to address this in a more detal, and in a serious and general way, because your idea has an issue beyond character debate. Your idea is essentially like asserting that someone who's depressed can just cheer up with simple pleasure, which is incorrect. Monika is a character who has existential personal conflict as a result of her divine knowledge. Her epiphany caused her to realize that the world she once viewed as real was a mere simulation, and aside from her attempts at spending time with the player, she was very sad.
She even said that she would've decided to stop continuing to live if the player hadn't arrived. Wouldn't you feel miserable if life were a simulation and you realized that fact, and that your friends are robots with no free will, while you're objectively unique in a way no one could sensibly believe, aside from one person with a special connection to your special knowledge? If someone is suicidal based on their cosmic beliefs, unless they interact with their one and only savior who is directly relevant to those cosmic beliefs, then a random person can't simply change those feelings by being a quirky and charming new friend, who so happens to have feats of being able to pacify malevolent characters. I hope that you realized by now that what you've been writing is an example of some people being so fixated on feats of characters that they forget that characters aren't mere info sheets, and, when well-written, are accurate to humans feelings, because they were written by humans.
(Read the next section before answering this one.)
Angel's Advocate:
Let's say your right and that Monika's mind set CAN resist Social Influencing just by Virtue 4th Wall Awareness letting her see the actions of other characters as fake and unnatural. Arale counters this because she also has 4th Wall Awareness that's cranked all the way up to 11 and could easily tell Monika that she knows she's a fictional character as well, point of stuff in the script given that Arale can casually read and know the entire script of the world or act incoherently from the script as she and other characters do multiple time. Monika Clairvoyance would instantly show her that Arale is not "Fake and Unnatural" and is in a sense just as "Real" as her given that Arale just like Monika can break the script of her own world and disregard the plot. So given both characters 4th wall Awareness and Plot Resistance counteracts each and places them on the EXACT same wavelength, Arale's social influencing would not be something Monika can dismiss as "a fake and unnatural action arale is doing because the script makes her do it" and would work on her because that's the only reason Monika has for resistance according to you and with that resistance gone she has nothing else.
I very clearly wrote that I'm not describing that this is a matter of a virtue of being fourth wall aware. This is a matter of Monika's mindset that she in particular has demonstrated. Take into consideration what I wrote in the previous section, plus the fact that Arale is fourth wall aware for the purpose of being a gag character. These two combatants are surprisingly not on the same wavelength, for the most part. The potency of the fourth wall awareness isn't important when I'm referring to how the characters socially feel as a result of their awareness, because psychology doesn't have potencies in that sense. On the surface, the idea of Arale revealing to Monika that she's fourth wall aware seems like useful social influencing, but it actually either isn't or it wouldn't happen in a way that would be useful. Monika's clairvoyance isn't telepathy, and Arale wouldn't be striking up a friendly conversation about the fourth wall with Monika, she'd be fighting her as an enemy. Arale using her abilities for fighting as an enemy would already be revealing that she's fourth wall aware to Monika, but that wouldn't be trying to be on the same page as Monika on a personal level via their common knowledge of the fourth wall. Like I wrote, if Arale were to so happen to say the right things, like that she's friends with Tori-bot, then her social influencing could potentially be successful against Monika, but in a battle something like that is highly unlikely to be a topic.
Devil's Advocate:
Okay I'll let you know that you are the first and only person on this entire site that has ever considered Monika's Plot Resistance to work in such an NFL way. Let me give you an example if what I mean. You say here that the script hinders characters from denying predetermined actions and behaviors and Monika can defy the script of her world and in doing so Monika's plot manipulation be described as a resistance to being forced to behave in a certain way and believe a certain truth. Alright
Here's what you seem to not get. Monika defying the plot of her own world is VALID and to say that she can use that Resistance to resist being forced to behave in certain ways and not take predetermined actions according to the script which is also VALID. What Staff will then tell you at that their is a LIMIT to what Monika can and cannot resist because of said Plot Manipulation and that limit is according to what is shown and displayed in Monika's OWN VERSE. Monika resisting commands and being forced to act a certain way and make predetermined actions is all within the confines of the Verse's Script hence why she resists Plot Manipulation. The "Script" is something she is aware of and can defy. BUT there is a limit. Allow me to demonstrate that.........
It's not a fallacy. It's simple.
Step 1: We know that Monika resists the supernatural ability to be forced to behave a certain way.
Step 2: We acknowledge that Broadway force is a supernatural ability involving forcing a character to behave a certain way.
Step 3: The deduction is made that Monika could resist Broadway force as long as the potency isn't higher than her resistance.
Just because the resistance lists "Plot Manipulation" instead of "Broadway Force", doesn't mean the latter isn't part of the resistance, because Broadway force can be a subset of plot manipulation or many other abilities that can also be subsets of plot manipulation, which itself can also be a subset of other abilities, and so on. My claim is not that Monika resists literally every manipulative ability just because it can be part of the plot, it's that she can resist the ability of forcing behavior to the extent she showed to resist it, therefore I'm not assuming no limit.
Charles Mind Manipulation. Charles has no 4th Wall Awareness nor any resistance to Plot Manipulation but has Mind Manipulation powers that can affect Cosmic, Celestial and Abstract Beings. Your argument here would be that because Monika's Plot Resistance can make it so that THE SCRIPT cannot sway her thought and actions AND because Monika sees Charles as a Fictional Character then she can resist Direct Mind Manipulation (EVEN THOUGH Mind Manipulation is NOT a power that Monika has ever encountered before neither has she resisted it before) because Charles' Mind Manipulation would cause her to think and act in ways she does not want and because Charles is bound by the script and she is not then she can resist Charles Hax because his Hax would be apart of the Script that she defies thus resisting his Mind Manipulation. Is that about right?
Amon Body Puppetry. Amon has no 4th Wall Awareness nor resistance to Plot Manipulation but has Body Puppetry that directly manipulates and controls the Blood of his opponents making them take any action he desires. Your argument here would be that because Monika's Plot Resistance can make it so that THE SCRIPT cannot sway her thought and actions AND because Monika sees Amon as a Fictional Character then she can resist Direct Body Puppetry (EVEN THOUGH Body Puppetry is NOT a power that Monika has ever encountered before neither has she resisted it before) because Amon's Body Puppetry would cause her to act in ways she does not want and because Amon is bound by the script and she is not then she can resist Amon's Hax because his Hax would be apart of the Script that she defies thus resisting his Body Puppetry. Is that about right?
Charles and Amon. Attacks on Monika's Mind and Attacks on her Body. Abilities that Monika has never faced within the scope of her own verse nor has feats of resisting. Your argument that Monika resists this is because she sees Charles and Amon as fictional characters following the script and she defies it and this because their hax are apart of the script they cant affect her.......... Is that about right?
If that's your argument here then the Staff here on VSB will tell you upfront your making NLF claims that is unsupported, unproven and cant be used.
If you mean type 1 abstract existence, that the character exists purely as an abstraction and not an embodiment of one, then Charles being able to control one seems to be beyond the extent of Monika's resistance to behavior being forced, so she would get affected by that. It doesn't matter if Charles doesn't break the fourth wall while doing so, since I don't recall the
DDLC script being beyond abstractions.
I already told you that body puppetry might work on Monika, because the ability has to do with physically moving a character a lot of the time. For Amon in particular, I don't even need to read beyond "has Body Puppetry that directly manipulates and controls the Blood of his opponents", because that already means it would work against Monika. It affects her biology in a way that she can't resist, because physically she's just a normal human.
Angel's Advocate:
But let's say your right and that she can resist that kind of stuff through Plot Resistance, she can make it that anything that would force her to think and act in ways she does not intend to think and act would not affect her....... This is a Moot Point to Arale anyways because again, Arale can Broadway Force characters who, Like Monika, has 4th wall awareness that allows her to perceive the world for the fiction it is and Monika for the fictional character she is and Arale can Broadway Force characters with both Broadway Force resistance AND Plot Resistance that makes them essentially unaffected by the Script. With that said, and with said what other reasons does Monika have that would prevent her from being Broadway force because having plot resistance wont save her and her 4th wall awareness wont help her either as Arale counteracts it with her own.
This answer has aspects of previous sections which I already addressed, so it should be skipped.
Devil's Advocate:
This is the most blatant form of genuine WTH I have ever witnessed. "When Monika is nonexistent/incorporeal, she doesn't have a brain nor any body parts, yet she can still talk and use abilities, so it can be deduced that she has a consciousness that isn't bound to her physical body". Yeah no shit sherlock. I mean pretty much every common ghost on the Wiki don't have a brain or any body parts either and can still talk and use abilities so I guess it can be deduced that their consciousness is not bound to a physical body as well. And where did you get consciousness is bound to the Physical Body? That is not a premise here. We don't push the narrative that a persons consciousness is bound to their physical body. That would completely contradict Low-Godly regen as those who have Low-Godly can regen from COMPLETE destruction of the physical body from their mind, soul and disembodied consciousness
Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
If what you were saying were try and that a consciousness is bound to its body then complete destruction of the physical body should take out the consciousness as well as the consciousness should NOT be able to survive after the destruction of what it is BOUND to and thus make our Standards for Low Godly Regeneration a complete contradiction. Even simple animes like Dragon Ball, Naruto and Jojo or Cartoons like Tom and Jerry and Looney Toons should be able to tell you that the consciousness lives on even after complete destruction of the body..... unless you wanna make the argument that Souls are devoid of consciousness. Consciousness is NOT bound to the body given we all know it can survive complete destruction of the body....... instead it is bound to the mind and/or soul.
"Her ability to access the command-line interface, which is the black text box at the top left of the screen that she used for some reality warping purposes, works the same way regardless of if her physical body is alive or not, and regardless of if the DDLC universe exists or not."
This here literally says nothing. Monika being able to use her abilities in both human and NEP form does not prove in any degree that her Mind is Non-Existent nor that her Mind is Acausal 4. Acausal 4 btw is a STATE OF BEING lol not a STATE OF MIND.
If that's the case, then my point should be even more intuitive. Now that you established what you wrote here, my point can be described in an even simpler way than how I initially did. The case is that consciousness is non-physical, being sperate from a character's physiology, and Monika's consciousness can exist even without her character file, therefore it can be deduced that Monika's consciousness isn't bound to reality, time, causality, script and so on, for the same reason her nonexistent/incorporeal state is. So, if Monika gets time stopped or if her physical body dies, her consciousness would still be available, so she would still be able to use abilities regardless of the setback.
I didn't claim that acausality is a state of mind, if you mean it in the sense that it's an emotion or something like that. I'm referring to the state of being that Monika's consciousness is in. I was using "mind" and "consciousness" synonymously.
Let me show you another example to bring forth how wrong you are....
Knuckles: at his final stage, he gains Abstract Existence and Higher Dimensional Existence due to becoming one with the Chaos Force which is basically Bigger than the Multiverse Itself. In this state he has all his previous abilities and his Mind commands the Entire Chaos Force and can use Chaos Control to Manipulate and Control the Fabric of space and time. The Ability, chaos control..... that Knuckles in his abstract state uses to control space and time is the same power he can use to the same effectiveness in his prior forms (Hyper Knuckles and Chaos Knucles) as well. DO YOU THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE ABSTACT KNUCKLES AND PRIOR FORMS OF KNUCKLES CAN USE THE SAME ABILITY TO THE SAME EFFECTIVENESS MEANS IN ANY REGARD THAT PRIOR FORMS OF KNUCLKES HAS AN ASTRACT OR HIGHER-DIMENSIONAL MIND? OF COURSE NOT. This is the FIRST time I have ever encountered an argument as ludicrous as this. Monika's NEP form having no physical body (obviously because she has NEP1) and being able to talk and use her abilities in her NEP form DOES NOT in anyway shape nor form means she has an Acausal 4 mind nor an NEP mind in Human Form. Acausal 4 and NEP are states of being that applies itself to the characters ENTIRE being not something that a character can get because "my NEP from has no body and I can use my abilities in my NEP form so my Human form must also have an NEP and Acausal 4 Mind since my Human Mind and NEP Mind is the same Mind". Like seriously? No one AND I MEAN NO ONE accepts this kind of logic in any regard. There isn't even a single character I can think of on this site that has an Acausal 4 mind just because another form of theirs has Acausal 4.
This is Ridiculously Bad Logic
I know
Sonic the Hedgehog, so I can explain this. What you're explaining is because Chaos Control is a technique that doesn't use the full power of the Chaos Force in most cases, and instead only draws energy from it. It'd be ridiculous to claim that Shadow's Chaos Spear is of the same potency as Super Genesis Wave or Chaos Knuckles' ability to command the Chaos Force when he became one with it, because this ignores very important context about the Chaos Force's role in the fictional work. Knuckles doesn't have the same context as Monika. Monika is naturally and directly involved with her abilities that come with her breaking the fourth wall, and she can do so in her base form, so it's not ridiculous to make the sensible connections that I'm making.
Angel's Advocate:
Assuming that was even the case that Monika supposedly has an Acasual 4 mind how does that help? Acausal 4 DOES NOT resist Time Stop unless their is some in context statement or context that states specifically thats the case and in Monika's case she neither has the context and Time Stop resistance does not exist anywhere on her profile outside of BDE which is only useable in NEP form
I already explained how there is context of this in previous messages. In this message, it's in the section before the Knuckles analogy.
