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Pokemon Upgrade: Necrozma and High 3-A

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in the original necrozma upgrade thread kukui did a wonderful job explaining why mewtwo wasn't so greatly outclassed by him. mewtwo was weakend due to being linked with blaine and lacked his superior MMY forme which Giovanni exploited to take him down. If you read carefuly and not speed through you can notice that not only mewtwo tanked the crunch but he also tanked many attacks off panel and survived and didn't get fully knocked out by a point blank dragon pulse from zygarde, still maintaining his mega evolution. He is below 50% zygarde, yes but not by a large margin
 
Not everyone agreed with that argument, and we don't know what happened to mewtwo while it was offscreen, he could have been knocked out, used recover, and then mega evolved again, the fight is so brief and so much of what happened isnt seen so it's hard to say how close to zygarde mewtwo is, a possibly is far more sensible.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
In my opinion, it'd be best for Kukui to explain it since he made the thread and explained it in the OP, but based on my understanding:

Since the Pokemon multiverse has been accepted as a likely 2-A structure, Ultra Space now becomes a likely infinite-sized structure. Because of this, the feat of Necrozma lighting up Ultra Space (which was calculated to be 3-C) can now become likely High 3-A since it's lighting up the entirety of an infinite structure. Also because of this, the feat (which is Massively FTL+) can be likely Infinite because the light is covering an infinite distance in a finite amount of time.

As such, we can upgrade those who scale to the feat to:
At least 3-C, likely High 3-A (AP)
At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Speed)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the summary, but are everybody absolutely certain that these are not outliers?
 
This shouldn't be an outlier, as the updated cosmology supports this and it causes no inconsistencies throughout the verse.
 
Okay. I suppose that it is probably fine then.
 
Okay, so I think we can apply these changes soon. It looks like they've been accepted and we know how each affected Pokemon scales
 
I was told to come give another summary of the reasons for the upgrades, but:
DragonGamerZ913 said:
In my opinion, it'd be best for Kukui to explain it since he made the thread and explained it in the OP, but based on my understanding:

Since the Pokemon multiverse has been accepted as a likely 2-A structure, Ultra Space now becomes a likely infinite-sized structure. Because of this, the feat of Necrozma lighting up Ultra Space (which was calculated to be 3-C) can now become likely High 3-A since it's lighting up the entirety of an infinite structure. Also because of this, the feat (which is Massively FTL+) can be likely Infinite because the light is covering an infinite distance in a finite amount of time.

As such, we can upgrade those who scale to the feat to:
At least 3-C, likely High 3-A (AP)
At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Speed)
Click to expand...
Dragon already beat me to the punch. This sums up the reasons for the upgrade nicely.
 
Also, just to respond to the small Mewtwo stuff above^

Waka1979 said:
Not everyone agreed with that argument, and we don't know what happened to mewtwo while it was offscreen, he could have been knocked out, used recover, and then mega evolved again, the fight is so brief and so much of what happened isnt seen so it's hard to say how close to zygarde mewtwo is, a possibly is far more sensible.
Click to expand...
Mewtwo mega evolving again off screen is an impossibility since Mewtwo already used up both of it's mega evolutions. He lost his mega Y form when Lysandre took advantage of Blaine's link with Mewtwo (aka a weakness) to indirectly harm the latter. And then Mewtwo quickly became his Mega X form afterwards to protect Blaines and continue the fight. It's made clear that Mega Evolution could only be used once per mega stone at a time. Mega Mewtwo X was the only exception to this since Blaines had Mewtwo's other mega stone on his person to go around that limitation. On top of everything else, with Mewtwo getting right back up the very next chapter with no notable damages, the difference between him and Zygarde is not as drastic as it was initially presented before.

That being said, Waka is still right about Mewtwo only getting "Possibly" from this. The point of my debunk was to disprove Mewtwo being drastically weaker than Zygarde, not that Mewtwo is very close to him. The difference is too unknown to say Mewtwo is close enough to get a "Likely", so getting a "Possibly" is much more viable and reasonable.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Does this mean the thread can be closed, too? It looks like we arrived at a consensus.
 
Well I'm already in the process of editing Necrozma since he's the one that starts this chain (also dibs on Ash's Pikachu)

Edit: Scratch that, Necrozma's profile is locked.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Current Vote count:

Agree: 27 (DragonGamerZ913, Pink999999, Lou_change, Gohanblancko217, thelastmlg, it_is_i_wyatt, Kieranh10, Firestorm808, XSOULOFCINDERX, Zencha9, ZoroNotZolo, Starter_Pack, Mozzada, Lou_Change, Arceus0x, Theultimate, GiverTheProtoAngel, Greenshifter, Rikimarox2, Psychomaster35, Garchomp777, Crimson_Shadow101, GlaceonGamez471, StrymULTRA, Planck69, Waka1979, ArchangelSiege)

Disagree:

Neutral: 5 (Yar_R_agi_7k, SamanPatou, DarkDragonMedus, NeoZex6399, The_real_cal_howard) though Cal said he didn't care so....unsure if vote counts or not but listing his anyway as neutral.

While Ion gave disagreement, I didn't count it due to his argument getting very quickly countered by the majority.

The Agreed Solution:

The upgrade, IF it goes through, is agreed to apply "Likely" to some and "Possibly" to everyone else. This is the new compromise instead of everyone getting a "Likely" from the upgrade.

The one's getting "Likely" High 3-A & Infinite Speed: Necrozma, the Light Trio, the Tapu, the Ultra Beast's, Melmetal, Sivally, Zeraora, Ash and Pikachu's Z-move, Beware (Anime) and the Aura Trio.

Reasons:

-Necrozma: Self-explanatory, he's the one doing the feats
-The Light Duo: Solgaleo & Lunala directly scale from Necrozma
-The Aura Trio: Yveltal, Xerneas, 50% and Perfect 100% Zygarde scale directly from Necrozma
-The Tapu Guardians: They scale directly from Solgaleo and Lunala
-The Ultra Beasts: They scale from the Tapu
-Sivally: He scales from the Ultra Beasts for being specifically created to fight and defeat them
-Zeraora: He scales from the Ultra Beasts for fighting one of them
-Melmetal: He scales from Sivally
-Pikachu's Z-Move: Pikachu himself does not scale to any of this, but his Z-move scales for defeating an Ultra Beast and Tapu Koko
-Ash: Ash gets these upgrades from having Melmetal and Naganadel, the latter who is an Ultra Beast, on his team along with Pikachu and their Z-Move
-Beware (Anime): This specific Beware scales from the Ultra Beasts and is far superior to an ordinary Beware, so it's scaled separately from its species

The rest of the legendaries who scale receive "Possibly" for downscaling to lesser extents than the Pokemon listed above.
Click to expand...
Just quoting this for easier access while we edit.
 
Hold on, is base mewtwo getting 3-C possibly High 3-A? and then Mega mewtwo gets 3-C, likely High 3-A? or are they both possibly?
 
I finished the Gen 6 legendaries and Ash's Pikachu, just need to hit save and that's it.

Edit: Never mind, forgot it's more than just Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
But Mega Mewtwo gets the Tier 3 upgrade, correct?
Click to expand...
Yup. It would be this:

"5-B | At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A | 4-A, at least 3-C, possibly High 3-A as Shadow Mega Mewtwo X

"Planet level (Despite being marginally weaker than Normal Forme Deoxys, it was still capable of impaling it with its spoon) | At least Galaxy level, possibly High Universe level (Vastly superior to its base form. Fought Zygarde as Mega Mewtwo X and Y in the manga, who is comparable to Yveltal and Xerneas in it's 50% state) | Multi-Solar System level (Created his realm that contains multiple stars), at least Galaxy level, possibly High Universe level as Shadow Mega Mewtwo X

At least Massively FTL+, possibly Infinite (Blitzed Articuno. Far superior to Lugia in speed and kept up with Deoxys in its various Formes) | At least Massively FTL+, possibly Infinite (Could react to a bloodlusted Zygarde) | At least Massively FTL+, possibly Infinite"

Shadow Mewtwo would probably need to have his base and Shadow Mega X form split to be formatted better, but this is how Mewtwo's page would look post-upgrade.
 
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