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Pokemon Upgrade: Necrozma and High 3-A

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i'd say rather that it ONLY defeated opponents who fall under the tier. If it was used randomly it would probs be an outlier but it literally was used to one shot lusamine and overpower z move tapu koko..
Anyways back to high 3-A revisions

How are the 3-C revisions coming along? We are already talking about high 3-A but we don't even have 3-C yet
 
Arceus0x said:
i'd say rather that it ONLY defeated opponents who fall under the tier. If it was used randomly it would probs be an outlier but it literally was used to one shot lusamine and overpower z move tapu koko..
Anyways back to high 3-A revisions

How are the 3-C revisions coming along? We are already talking about high 3-A but we don't even have 3-C yet
Click to expand...
3-C already got accepted in its own thread before this one.
 
I've thought about it for a while, and have decided that I want to debunk Ion a bit more thoroughly.

"Something can't be infinite AND expanding, since expanding means it is stil growing in size, automatically meaning it isn't infinite."

Everything from the fundamentals of the VSBW to the leading global authorities on astrophysics says otherwise.

"Something not expanding =/= its size is infinite. The Earth isn't expanding and that doesn't mean it is infinite in size."

Nobody is arguing that. Besides, the Earth actually is expanding, just like everything else in our infinite universe. It's just not expanding fast enough to overcome its own gravity. At the current time, only intergalactic distances are expanding fast enough to overcome the fundamental forces keeping them together. Though, this is just semantics.

Swapping the next two arguments around for the sake of context.

"From the fact something can't have sides if it doesn't have edges. You can look at any geometrical figure for reference, only something without an edge can lack sides since that means there's nothing limiting its size."

This would have been a good argument, if the Pokemon Multiverse wasn't a 4D Hyperspace. But since it is, all this is arguing is that Ultra Space is a 3D Space within 4D Hyperspace, and that it isn't shaped like a Klein Bottle, the former of which is an assumption of the OP (otherwise it would have been a tier 2 upgrade), and the latter is irrelevant. Any other 3D shape (even though the Klein Bottle is technically a 4D shape, but again, semantics), even if infinite in size, will always have both edges and sides in 4D, per definition, even if said sides may have a size of 0. Still more than enough room for the "Other Side".

"Necrozma's feat isn't in the Pokémon World, it's in Ultra Space. Besides, even if it was in the Pokémon World, the individual universes aren't infinite in size either."

Yes. But now there's absolutely no evidence that Ultra Space is finite. And due to the Pokemon Multiverse now being Likely 2-A, even if Ultra Space only has portals for an infinitesimal number of the available Universes, it still contains infinite portals, because infinity is weird like that. And so, Occam's Razor claims that Ultra Space contains infinite portals, and is therefore infinite in size. Any other claim requires an unknown mechanism for how only the portals to a finite amount of infinite universes would exist within Ultra Space. And since the distance between Ultra Wormholes is finite, that cannot be that mechanism.

""Infinite power" is the absolute most common hyperbole ever. Tons of characters have "infinite power" statements and that doesn't make them High 3-A, you can read our standards regarding statements and see this."

It is true that infinite power is the absolute most common hyperbole ever. But now we have not just one, but two, infinite feats from Necrozma. Solgaleo/Lunala/Zygarde scale directly, and Xerneas/Yveltal scale almost directly.

But at least Victini's, Mewtwo's, and Eternatus' infinite power statements might still be hyperbole.
 
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btw i wanna backtrack a bit. About the infinity not being capable of havings sides and edges...Infinity has a 0. Even if something is expanding it will be expanding from some point. Thus unless it's also begginingless then it will have a certain point. If it is expanding in two places or omnidirectionally then it will have the point as a sort of 'middle' so that was a pointless argument way before.
 
Can somebody experienced write down a precise tally for who agree with what solution in this thread please?
 
last tally was
a17
d0
n4
and considering it is late and i might misinterpret sth ill let yall handle it sorry.
 
That isn't a nearly enough elaborate summary.
 
Current Vote count:

Agree: 27 (DragonGamerZ913, Pink999999, Lou_change, Gohanblancko217, thelastmlg, it_is_i_wyatt, Kieranh10, Firestorm808, XSOULOFCINDERX, Zencha9, ZoroNotZolo, Starter_Pack, Mozzada, Lou_Change, Arceus0x, Theultimate, GiverTheProtoAngel, Greenshifter, Rikimarox2, Psychomaster35, Garchomp777, Crimson_Shadow101, GlaceonGamez471, StrymULTRA, Planck69, Waka1979, ArchangelSiege)

Disagree:

Neutral: 5 (Yar_R_agi_7k, SamanPatou, DarkDragonMedus, NeoZex6399, The_real_cal_howard) though Cal said he didn't care so....unsure if vote counts or not but listing his anyway as neutral.

While Ion gave disagreement, I didn't count it due to his argument getting very quickly countered by the majority.

The Agreed Solution:

The upgrade, IF it goes through, is agreed to apply "Likely" to some and "Possibly" to everyone else. This is the new compromise instead of everyone getting a "Likely" from the upgrade.

The one's getting "Likely" High 3-A & Infinite Speed: Necrozma, the Light Trio, the Tapu, the Ultra Beast's, Melmetal, Sivally, Zeraora, Ash and Pikachu's Z-move, Beware (Anime) and the Aura Trio.

Reasons:

-Necrozma: Self-explanatory, he's the one doing the feats
-The Light Duo: Solgaleo & Lunala directly scale from Necrozma
-The Aura Trio: Yveltal, Xerneas, 50% and Perfect 100% Zygarde scale directly from Necrozma
-The Tapu Guardians: They scale directly from Solgaleo and Lunala
-The Ultra Beasts: They scale from the Tapu
-Sivally: He scales from the Ultra Beasts for being specifically created to fight and defeat them
-Zeraora: He scales from the Ultra Beasts for fighting one of them
-Melmetal: He scales from Sivally
-Pikachu's Z-Move: Pikachu himself does not scale to any of this, but his Z-move scales for defeating an Ultra Beast and Tapu Koko
-Ash: Ash gets these upgrades from having Melmetal and Naganadel, the latter who is an Ultra Beast, on his team along with Pikachu and their Z-Move
-Beware (Anime): This specific Beware scales from the Ultra Beasts and is far superior to an ordinary Beware, so it's scaled separately from its species

The rest of the legendaries who scale receive "Possibly" for downscaling to lesser extents than the Pokemon listed above.
 
So all in all

those who recieve the likely are listed but what about the possibly ones?

ill try to list em but idk if it will end up being complete.
ik we already have the list for 3-C characters and it is gonna be the same here but i'll just give a summary

-Mega Mewtwo (Shadow mewtwo transformation too as it has been shown to be notably superior)
-mega Rayquaza
-the BW dragon trio (kyurem, zekrom and reshiram)
-Viktini (scales to the dragons)
-The blades of justice
-Keldeo
-Shiny Genesect
-Mew (Z-move only)

Anyone else?
 
Arceus0x said:
So all in all

those who recieve the likely are listed but what about the possibly ones?

ill try to list em but idk if it will end up being complete.
ik we already have the list for 3-C characters and it is gonna be the same here but i'll just give a summary

-Mega Mewtwo (Shadow mewtwo transformation too as it has been shown to be notably superior)
-mega Rayquaza
-the BW dragon trio (kyurem, zekrom and reshiram)
-Viktini (scales to the dragons)
-The blades of justice
-Keldeo
-Shiny Genesect
-Mew (Z-move only)

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
We already have this list in the OP.
 
Before these changes are likely applied, can somebody summarise the reasons for High 3-A and infinite speed please?
 
In my opinion, it'd be best for Kukui to explain it since he made the thread and explained it in the OP, but based on my understanding:

Since the Pokemon multiverse has been accepted as a likely 2-A structure, Ultra Space now becomes a likely infinite-sized structure. Because of this, the feat of Necrozma lighting up Ultra Space (which was calculated to be 3-C) can now become likely High 3-A since it's lighting up the entirety of an infinite structure. Also because of this, the feat (which is Massively FTL+) can be likely Infinite because the light is covering an infinite distance in a finite amount of time.

As such, we can upgrade those who scale to the feat to:
At least 3-C, likely High 3-A (AP)
At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite (Speed)
 
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