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Ok, so, I guess that is time to get the issues in general with the Tier 5 profiles of legendaries, and a thing for Tier 2 as well.

Tier 5 issues

Now, my biggest issue is current Deoxys' speed rating:

Massively FTL+, possibly Infinite (Despite getting fodderized by Mega Rayquaza in raw power, managed to react to and dodge many attacks from it), higher in Speed Form

Now, this is pretty much both outlier and non-sense.

Because of this, both the Base and Mega Forms of Mewtwo and Rayquaza have the same speed rating, which is definitely dumb following the context of Mega Evolution, which boosts all the stats, and getting just the AP/Dura boosted to astronomical levels and not the speed is definitely off to me. So I'd definitely get rid of Deoxys saling to Tier 3s in speed, because of also Base Rayquaza not having any showing to blitzing the Primals, but only in Mega. However, Deoxys would still get this MFTL+ (9.862e5c) feat, and thus all the Tier 5 Pokémon characters (except Primals and Mega Eon Duo) would still scale to this.

Passing with Base Rayquaza's AP:

Planet level (Overwhelmed both Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre 1,000 years ago. Fought Deoxys on equal footing)

Ok, no. In the Deoxys Destiny movie Rayquaza stomped Deoxys so goddamn hard even there that the latter needed 4 years to regenerate from the full blast that Ray trew to it, while the latter couldn't make the same amount of damage even with Attack Forme. And were needed both the Deoxys to being able to fight Rayquaza (mind you that at the end of the second fight the barried created from the 1st Deoxys disappeared, meaning the superiority of Rayquaza over a single one of them). So I'd just put base Rayquaza at "At least Planet+ level, likely higher" to get some respect on the gap between it and Deoxys (given that Deoxys is close to Planet+ itself with Normal Forme already)

Now with the Primals

Planet level (Weaker than but still capable of fighting Rayquaza. Together with Primal Kyogre was heavily implied to be capable of stopping the Grand Meteor Delta)

Uhm, but it was stated in Rayquaza's profile that it easily stomped them in base. I'd simply remove the 1st sentence in AP

Second should get this as linked for proof

Tier 2 stuff

This is for the 2-A levels of they can simply get bigger in Range than baseline 2-A (not AP, it lacks proofs on that).

This should simply be pretty straight-foward.

The cosmology is at very least x2 baseline in size, because of Distortion World simply be separated from the Main Multiverse for obvious reasons (due of Dialga and Palkia's multiversal reset not reaching the DW, and Giratina being bandished outside the multiverse from sealing it in the DW)

However, if we should get more in details, it should be still x60 millions for the Main Multiverse. Why? Each Ultra Space has its own Necrozma and has its own Ultra Wormholes, with each Giovanni wanting to conquer his Multiverse in the cartridge with his own UBs. If Ultra Spaces were in the same infinity, they would have encountered each other, which would be pretty weird and non-sense given the plot of TRR Arc.

Ergo Main Multiverse and Distortion World would still be x60 million times baseline each in size, with True Arceus being >>the sum of both in size.

TLDR:
  • Deoxys and whoever scales from it becomes just MFTL+ with the new calc and the scaling from Mega Rayquaza gets yeeted
  • Base Rayquaza becomes Planet+, likely higher
  • Primals have their AP rating fixed
  • Cosmology still be at the million times 2-A in range
Edit: I'd link also this for Rayquaza's AP about beating the Primals in base.
 
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Was wondering when the 2-A things would come, and for the looms of it it's fine
Although I have a question about Deoxys speed
Isn't Deoxys and Rayqauaza portrayed as nemeses? Why would they "Somewhat" scaling to each other by an Outlier if that's the case?
The rest is fine
 
Isn't Deoxys and Rayqauaza portrayed as nemeses? Why would they "Somewhat" scaling to each other by an Outlier if that's the case?
Because Base Rayquaza and Mega Rayquaza for common sense can't have the same speed rating, and Deoxys got destroyed even against Base one. It scaling in speed from Mega Rayquaza is just dumb given that Mega in this case gives a stats boost to all the stats, and it's obvioulsy untrue that while it gives a boost from Tier 5 to Tier 3 it doesen't an insane boost to speed as well.
 
Right, I'm saying this now, I'm only here for the 2-A stuff that you really should have put in their own thread. First, put some scans to back up what you are saying, as it is right now it could easily be assumed to just be opinions and conjecture.

As for the arguments themselves, the stuff about having their own Necrozma and own Giovanni who wants to rule the multiverse does not matter for proving the size of the verse. And no, your opinions on it being nonsensical and weird does not matter because most people would assume that have more than one infinite multiverse would already mean they are bigger than one infinite multiverse, but that's not how the Wiki does it.

As for the Distortion World stuff, might be a bigger Range. Probably not.

Keep in mind this is not my opinion because I really couldn't care less about this multiple infinities aren't bigger stuff, but I'm just guessing this is what the people so focused on being "scientifically accurate" would say... Unless I'm wrong and this is all enough evidence, in which guess I hate you people (and no I won't clarify which group of people I actually hate)
 
Because Base Rayquaza and Mega Rayquaza for common sense can't have the same speed rating, and Deoxys got destroyed even against Base one. It scaling in speed from Mega Rayquaza is just dumb given that Mega in this case gives a stats boost to all the stats, and it's obvioulsy untrue that while it gives a boost from Tier 5 to Tier 3 it doesen't an insane boost to speed as well.
I see
Makes sense to me then
 
Because Base Rayquaza and Mega Rayquaza for common sense can't have the same speed rating, and Deoxys got destroyed even against Base one. It scaling in speed from Mega Rayquaza is just dumb given that Mega in this case gives a stats boost to all the stats, and it's obvioulsy untrue that while it gives a boost from Tier 5 to Tier 3 it doesen't an insane boost to speed as well.
The biggest problem I have with you reasoning is that MFTL+ is a tier that goes on forever and Infinite is...infinite.

Two characters can absolutely be in both and blitz each other endlessly because of that. All of them can be in those same tiers, be 'comparable' via feats, yet not 'equals'
 
The biggest problem I have with you reasoning is that MFTL+ is a tier that goes on forever and Infinite is...infinite.

Two characters can absolutely be in both and blitz each other endlessly because of that. All of them can be in those same tiers, be 'comparable' via feats, yet not 'equals'
I hope you do realize that in this wiki we don't make "below Baseline Infinity", right? Base Rayquaza doesen't have that kind of feats itself anyway, so moot point.
 
Right, I'm saying this now, I'm only here for the 2-A stuff that you really should have put in their own thread. First, put some scans to back up what you are saying, as it is right now it could easily be assumed to just be opinions and conjecture.

As for the arguments themselves, the stuff about having their own Necrozma and own Giovanni who wants to rule the multiverse does not matter for proving the size of the verse. And no, your opinions on it being nonsensical and weird does not matter because most people would assume that have more than one infinite multiverse would already mean they are bigger than one infinite multiverse, but that's not how the Wiki does it.

As for the Distortion World stuff, might be a bigger Range. Probably not.

Keep in mind this is not my opinion because I really couldn't care less about this multiple infinities aren't bigger stuff, but I'm just guessing this is what the people so focused on being "scientifically accurate" would say... Unless I'm wrong and this is all enough evidence, in which guess I hate you people (and no I won't clarify which group of people I actually hate)
Tbh, is pretty much already in the Profiles and Cosmology Blog, is just explaining what's already in the wiki.
 
Gee, if it's in the cosmology blog do you think maybe the people knowledgeable on this new unnecessary policy might have already known about this stuff when they told you that Pokémon's multiple multiverses did not give a higher Range or size.
 
Gee, if it's in the cosmology blog do you think maybe the people knowledgeable on this new unnecessary policy might have already known about this stuff when they told you that Pokémon's multiple multiverses did not give a higher Range or size.
😩 🤷‍♂️
 
I hope you do realize that in this wiki we don't make "below Baseline Infinity", right? Base Rayquaza doesen't have that kind of feats itself anyway, so moot point.
We already scale superior forms in the infinity range for the speed, specifically Necrozma itself as we consider all forms to have that speed rating.

Either Ultra is above baseline, and thus pokemon can downscale through the Zygarde scaling chain due to both 50% and 100% scaling (which is what I thought the feat was), or the feat is completely baseline and scaling through Ultra and into Zygarde needs fixed as a whole.

And how is it a moot point? The arguement is that Deoxys keeps up with both forms to at least avoid attacks. It gets wrecked by both, but it kept up, it only doesn't work if the speeds are impossible, otherwise all three can still be in the same ring yet clearly unequal.
 
We already scale superior forms in the infinity range for the speed, specifically Necrozma itself as we consider all forms to have that speed rating.

Either Ultra is above baseline, and thus pokemon can downscale through the Zygarde scaling chain due to both 50% and 100% scaling (which is what I thought the feat was), or the feat is completely baseline and scaling through Ultra and into Zygarde needs fixed as a whole.

And how is it a moot point? The arguement is that Deoxys keeps up with both forms to at least avoid attacks. It gets wrecked by both, but it kept up, it only doesn't work if the speeds are impossible, otherwise all three can still be in the same ring yet clearly unequal.
Mega Rayquaza is Infinite only because of it being superior to Mega Mewtwo who is baseline in itself. Plus, think about it. Mega Evolution gives an insane boost to all the statistics, and now you're telling me that a boost which makes a 5-B a Tier 3 doesn't amp the speed as well in this context? Especially when Rayquaza in base doesn't have any Infinite Speed feat? C'mon, is pretty obvious that it doesn't scale to its Mega Form, is simple common sense.
 
Mewtwo's infinite speed feat is from Zygarde 50%, who's is from 100%, who's is from Necrozma. What makes Mewtwo specifically baseline compared to the other members of that chain, very specifically the two that are the same pokemon...in different, unequal in stats forms?

It clearly ampped the speed, I never said it didn't. Base Ray does well against Deoxys but Mega Ray is clearly chasing it down and keeping it on the defensive the entire fight. Deoxys could 'keep up' with both, but Mega clearly had the advantage compared to base.

And yeah Mega Ray doesn't have an infinite speed feat either. It comes from scaling. Like it does for Mewtwo and Zygarde. Base has never done anything infinite, I don't see how that's relevant when the stats are comming from scaling to other pokemon?
 
Mewtwo's infinite speed feat is from Zygarde 50%, who's is from 100%, who's is from Necrozma. What makes Mewtwo specifically baseline compared to the other members of that chain, very specifically the two that are the same pokemon...in different, unequal in stats forms?
It was agreed in the recent Tier 3 scaling revision that Mega Mewtwo's feat of taking barely hits from Zygarde is at least on Base Necrozma levels, who is baseline.

And yeah Mega Ray doesn't have an infinite speed feat either. It comes from scaling. Like it does for Mewtwo and Zygarde. Base has never done anything infinite, I don't see how that's relevant when the stats are comming from scaling to other pokemon?
False equivalence. Mega Rayquaza has a solid point for having infinite speed, ergo being undoubtedly superior to Mega Mewtwo. Base one simply doesn't, except some weird backscaling from its Mega form which isn't supported from anything.
 
do i have to come in and mention every time that a weakened mewtwo tanked a crunch (blocking it with a psychic energy spoon), tanked a point blank dragon pulse and seemingly another one in the same sense whilst keeping his consciousness as he didn't de-mega evolve?
People keep phrasing it in such ways that multiple members end up thinking that Mew2 got instantly fodderized and it was probably an outlier despite the fact that he was able to tank multiple powerful attacks without getting knocked out whilst having a disadvantage of having it's mind connected and MMY restricted
 
do i have to come in and mention every time that a weakened mewtwo tanked a crunch (blocking it with a psychic energy spoon), tanked a point blank dragon pulse and seemingly another one in the same sense whilst keeping his consciousness as he didn't de-mega evolve?
People keep phrasing it in such ways that multiple members end up thinking that Mew2 got instantly fodderized and it was probably an outlier despite the fact that he was able to tank multiple powerful attacks without getting knocked out whilst having a disadvantage of having it's mind connected and MMY restricted
... that's why it got on Base Necrozma levels...
 
Yeah, I'd much rather have Deoxys scale to its own MFTL+ feat rather than infinite speed. Makes a lot more sense scaling-wise.

To be fair, Rayquaza blasting Deoxys was done with its then-strongest move, Hyper Beam, and there's still a 1.54x gap to get to Planet+. I'm in support of "At least Planet level, likely higher" though.

Primal stuff seems fine.

Not gonna touch the tier 2 stuff until I've fully understood the new standards myself.
 
Does Deoxys really scale to the meteor’s speed in reactions, for all we know the meteor just traveled in a straight line.
 
it's just because im a huge mewtwo fanboy and when people phrase it the wrong way, many people misinterpret it often as an outlier and i've seen like 3 revisions trying to nerf him despite the evidence being contradictory. So say "tanked hits from Zygarde" as otherwise it ends up bringing more doubt to people and i swear if i have to asnwer to one more attempted mewtwo and co nerf thread with half-assed evidence someone's gonna be needing a reviver seed
 
I actually have a slight issue with that Deoxys calc, not a huge deal as it'd still result in a ludicrous MFTL+ but still. But I also don't give enough of a **** for a ultimately negligible difference for this. MFTL+ either way.
Does Deoxys really scale to the meteor’s speed in reactions, for all we know the meteor just traveled in a straight line.
He was moving it telekinetically, and shifted its course multiple times.
Also Mega Ray would scale to it anyhow.
 
Does Deoxys really scale to the meteor’s speed in reactions, for all we know the meteor just traveled in a straight line.
Pretty much the first thing that happened in the delta episode was the meteor "suddenly" changing trajectory to crash into Earth.
 
To be fair, Rayquaza blasting Deoxys was done with its then-strongest move, Hyper Beam, and there's still a 1.54x gap to get to Planet+. I'm in support of "At least Planet level, likely higher" though.
Issue here is that it didn't just overpowered, it completely pulverized Deoxys, which is pretty enough to get >=5-B+ imo.
Does Deoxys really scale to the meteor’s speed in reactions, for all we know the meteor just traveled in a straight line.
Kinda the same reason why it scales from the AP + what Gyro and Chariot said
 
Ok for Pokemon it is at least 2x infinite multiverse
the distortion world is notably much harder to access then other universes it can keep in beings with range that is Multiversal+ from escaping not through any means other then being harder to access and escape
 
Just gonna jump into this for the range stuff real quick and then get out of her right away:
None of those qualifies. Those are just one multiverse being given lost of structures. Doesn't imply higher range.
The distortion world stuff is a simple issue of domain. Main multiverse is Dialga/Palkia domain, whereas distortion world is Giratina's domain and considered a separate group due to its nature. One could compare it to whole numbers. The positive numbers are their own things with their own properties. If you do something to the positive numbers, the negative ones would be unaffected. They are separated from the negative numbers and in a certain sense closed off.
Yet negative + postive numbers together is still same amount of universes and not a fundamentally bigger structure.
Basically, no definitive statement regarding range in that, more so statements about the natures of domains.

The Ultra space stuff is also not indicative of anything. Each ultra space can be in its own "infinity" and it would still not mean anything. Let's compare that to rational numbers. Each rational number is in its own interval between two whole numbers, together with infinite other rational numbers. So each interval is kinda like one infinite ultra space collection or whatever. Then all intervals together would be like infinite of those. Yet that structure is still the same as a basic infinite universe structure, as rational numbers are countable and can hence be rearranged into the whole numbers.

All the stuff in the OP tells us something about how the multiverse is structured, the nature of certain parts of it and which creatures hold powers about which fraction of the multiverse. However, a multiverse being able to be divided into parts of different properties doesn't tell us anything about range. You would need a statement mentioning range/distance here.
 
Just gonna jump into this for the range stuff real quick and then get out of her right away:
None of those qualifies. Those are just one multiverse being given lost of structures. Doesn't imply higher range.
The distortion world stuff is a simple issue of domain. Main multiverse is Dialga/Palkia domain, whereas distortion world is Giratina's domain and considered a separate group due to its nature. One could compare it to whole numbers. The positive numbers are their own things with their own properties. If you do something to the positive numbers, the negative ones would be unaffected. They are separated from the negative numbers and in a certain sense closed off.
Yet negative + postive numbers together is still same amount of universes and not a fundamentally bigger structure.
Basically, no definitive statement regarding range in that, more so statements about the natures of domains.

The Ultra space stuff is also not indicative of anything. Each ultra space can be in its own "infinity" and it would still not mean anything. Let's compare that to rational numbers. Each rational number is in its own interval between two whole numbers, together with infinite other rational numbers. So each interval is kinda like one infinite ultra space collection or whatever. Then all intervals together would be like infinite of those. Yet that structure is still the same as a basic infinite universe structure, as rational numbers are countable and can hence be rearranged into the whole numbers.

All the stuff in the OP tells us something about how the multiverse is structured, the nature of certain parts of it and which creatures hold powers about which fraction of the multiverse. However, a multiverse being able to be divided into parts of different properties doesn't tell us anything about range. You would need a statement mentioning range/distance here.
Dialga can still use it control over time in the distortion world
its not an issue of domain since if it was Dialga couldn’t use his time hax there which is tied to the domain of the multiverse and where its omnipresence is
 
You would need a statement mentioning range/distance here.
Wouldn't Necrozma and UBs being unable to reach other Ultra Spaces be enough? Since they can travel only in their Ultra Space/Multiverse without reaching others, it would be safe to assume that right because they have just baseline range, they can't access other Multiverses.
 
Alright, so from what I understand, to get range greater than "baseline Multiversal+", there needs to be an explicit mention of the range being superior to said baseline level. The example given seems pretty clear to what's said in the note: "For example, one multiverse being outside of the range of an effect or of the power of a character that can affect one infinite multiverse doesn't necessarily mean the multiverse is further away."

So I don't think Pokemon top tiers would get range beyond the typical 2-A range.
 
Deoxys fought pretty evenly with base rayquaza in the movie dunno about the manga
 
Honestly I found the new range standards to be a bunch of convoluted maths that makes 2-A unnecessarily stricter for no reason but I digress.

Anyway I agree with Deoxys using it's own speed feat for scaling, neutral on everything else.
 
Anyway, about the 5-B+ Rayquaza, take it like this.

Deoxys is only x1.54 from baseline 5-B+, right?

Its Attack Forme is stronger than that.

Rayquaza is much stronger than even the Attack Forme, given that not only Rayquaza can one-shot Deoxys, but even vaporize pieces of its body with random blasts, while Attack Forme couldn't deal such damage to Rayquaza.

I perfectly see Attack Form as even bordeline 5-B and being this close to 5-B+, but tbh, Base Rayquaza should be at very least 5-B+, given with how much ease it can destroy Deoxys' body and even being able to completely vaporize it with a charged attack.
 
Honestly I found the new range standards to be a bunch of convoluted maths that makes 2-A unnecessarily stricter for no reason but I digress.

Anyway I agree with Deoxys using it's own speed feat for scaling, neutral on everything else.
I’m barely even here anymore and even I came here to say “preach”
 
Don't care much about this thread so probably this will be my only reply here
The distortion world stuff is a simple issue of domain. Main multiverse is Dialga/Palkia domain, whereas distortion world is Giratina's domain and considered a separate group due to its nature. One could compare it to whole numbers. The positive numbers are their own things with their own properties. If you do something to the positive numbers, the negative ones would be unaffected. They are separated from the negative numbers and in a certain sense closed off.
Yet negative + postive numbers together is still same amount of universes and not a fundamentally bigger structure.
Basically, no definitive statement regarding range in that, more so statements about the natures of domains.
How characters with baseline 2-A range can manage to reach Giratina's domain when they're inside Dialga/Palkia domain?I mean those characters need to go outside,or have abilities to affect infinite multiverse that's outside Dialga/Palkia domain(self-explanatory) to do that,which is impossible for characters that are baseline since they can't affect anything outside their own multiverse(also self-explanatory)

The amount universes of baseline 2-A and Pokemon multiverse is same,there is no need to debate about it but 2-A sets in Pokemon are seperate,they don't interfere with each others(if I don't miss something) while baseline in range is not like that,your explanation can work only if we take all universes out of each set in Pokemon then put them in the same place instead of being seperately like current

Edit:It's like saying one character that can affect one universe with infinite size would be 2-A just because infinite universes are still infinite lol,although it's completely wrong since each universe in 2-A construct exists seperately with each other instead of being the one
 
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I don't have time rn to argue as I have work soon but I disagree with the tier 5 stuff. Mostly Deoxys's speed downgrade. I'll elaborate later.
 
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