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Pokemon: Our Non-Legendary Profiles Aren't Good

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Magikarp, Feebas, Singular Wishiwashi, and Wimpod at 10-C (Magikarp with High 8-C durability via in-game feat)

Baby Pokemon (excluding Magby, Elekid, Riolu, and Munclax) at 9-B

First forms (excluding Pokemon like Scyther and Onix, who gained a second form), the excluded babies, and the second forms of the included babies at High 8-C. Also probably includes BoG trash like Raticate, Linoone (not trash but still fits), and Bibarel.

"Adolescent forms" (Pidgeotto, Charmeleon, Haunter), most non-evolving, and most final 2nd stage Pokemon, early evolving bugs (except Beedrill and Butterfree, the former because its feared like a normal 3 formed Pokemon and has a Mega, and the latter because it scales to normal Beedrill) final forms of babies, and powerful 1st forms (like Scyther and Onix) at 8-A+.

Final 3rd forms, Beedrill and Butterfree, and some 2nd form Pokemon (Snorlax, Lucario, Froslass) at "At least 7-C, likely 7-B"

Late evolving Pokemon (like Walrein, Aggron) ???. Likely what's above

Megas at "At least 7-B+"

Pseudos at (debatably) At least 7-A (I'm not gonna touch those yet, and just currently move them up to where final 3rd forms are.)
 
Late Evolution Pokemon and Pseudo-Legendaries are kind of similar there


They may scale from either "At least 7-B" Tyranitar or 7-B+ Volcarona
 
@Dragon. You right. Linoone is the good one of the bunch ovo.

@Aiden. They should likely scale to the higher Volcarona, but I wouldn't change Tyranitar's page yet. However, I would change the gen II dogs and the gen VII Tapus, UBs, and legendaries(?)
 
IDK about scaling to Volcarona as it could be possible that it is just stronger than the rest.
 
@Dragon


Actually, Rattata, Zingzaggon and others would be handle like Pidgey, but without the Tier 7 (Basically, High 8-C and 8-A for final form)
 
That begs the question though. How do we rank Pokemon with only two forms (that aren't seen as super Powerful like Snorlax and Scizor and Steelix or any of the gen 4 end-of-pokedex evolutions), like Muk, Electrode, Dugtrio, Exeggutor, Donphan, Grumpig, Vespiquen, etc.

Also, how on earth will we rank Wobbufett?
 
For pokemon with only two Evolutions, it would depends in both parts. If the first form is very weak, then the final form should just be 8-A+. Except cases like Gyarados and maybe Manetric.


For Wobbuffet, he is literally a punching bag. Wynaut should be 8-A+ and Wobbufett "At least 7-C, likely 7-B" in durability, based on how much they can take
 
The non-evolving Pokemon that I think are above the normal 8-A are the ones with Megas (Pinsir, Kangaskhan, Heracross, Sableye, Mawile, and Absol. Audino (including its Mega) is a different situation altogether.), Pokemon that are seen as stupid strong, (Tauros, Aerodactyl, Zanzgoose and Seviper (potentially), Spiritomb, Rotom, Druddigon (also potentially)) and Turtonator (also also potentially), or have scaling to support it (Wishiwashi (school) and Dhelmise)
 
Maybe someone should make a list to sort all of the pokemon into their respective tiers? I'd be willing to do so when I get home if no one else wants to.
 
I think he means something like compile a blog which details what Pokémon goes where. I'll do it but it will take forever.
 
For the most part I'm okay with the whole "give rankings based on evolution stages" thing.

Except for one thing...

High 8-C Caterpie, Weedle, Wurmple, Sunkern, Luvdisc, etc.?

8-A Metapod, Kakuna, Silcoon, Cascoon, etc.?

Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this is absolutely ridiculous. For the most part I'm okay with the upgrade, but the Pokemon I mentioned above being Tier 8 has nothing to support other than "it's not Magikarp" or "they're 2nd stage Pokemon, therefore they're comparable to 2nd stage starters". It's giving clearly inferior Pokemon inflated rankings based on arbitrary reasons and honestly I almost want to call it a baseless assumption.
 
I honestly don't think the rankings Cal suggests are too much of a stretch, but they seem pretty baseless to me.

Unfortunately, with Pokemon being such an inconsistent mess and all, that's just what we have to resort to if we want a baseline for scaling.
 
It's an attempt to make the ratings make more sense.

Though now that you bring this up... Yeah, you got a point...
 
I almost forgot bugs. They're scaled to baby Pokémon, and their final forms are that of second forms if were being generous with the exception of Butterfree and Beedrill, who will be treated as normal 3rd form Pokémon.

Luvdisc will be scaled like all non-evolving Pokémon. It's not necessarily weak. Sunkern however is on the level of Magikarp.
 
For example, Weedle-Mega Beedrill

9-B | 9-B | At least 7-C, likely 7-B | 7-B

As opposed to Wurple-Beautifly/Dustox

9-B | 9-B | 8-A
 
If you're asking why Beedrill and Butterfree are exceptions, it's that the non-mega forms of all Megas will be scaled to the 7-C, likely 7-B (except Audino, who's not a fighter in any form). Beedrill has a Mega, and Butterfree is equal.

If you're asking why bugs are that weak, it's because they're pretty baseline Pokémon, even to early game. And their cocoon forms are supposed to stagnate in AP and not get stronger until final form. And Sunkern is statistically the weakest of all Pokémon, including Magikarp.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
They aren't gonna be 8-C or 8-A.
Click to expand...
Why not? Caterpie is as básic as Pidgey, Rattata and your starter. I can agree than the cacoons should only have a durability stat and that Beedrill/Butterfree and others shouldn't be 8-A+ (Tho they can't too far either).
 
@Aiden. I thought Caterpie, Wurple, and the like are seen as actual fodder to Pidgey and Tailow. Not even Pidgeotto/Swellow, but the first forms.
 
@Arbitrary


The only thing the pokemon you listed have to justify them to not be High 8-C is because they look weak/have low stats. But neither of those are relevant for the scaling.
 
The real cal howard said:
I almost forgot bugs. They're scaled to baby Pokémon, and their final forms are that of second forms if were being generous with the exception of Butterfree and Beedrill, who will be treated as normal 3rd form Pokémon.
Luvdisc will be scaled like all non-evolving Pokémon. It's not necessarily weak. Sunkern however is on the level of Magikarp.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but half of your justifications are based in stats, which are not accepted.
 
The real cal howard said:
@Aiden. I thought Caterpie, Wurple, and the like are seen as actual fodder to Pidgey and Tailow. Not even Pidgeotto/Swellow, but the first forms.
Click to expand...
Yes, I never talked about middle stage.


I mean, the early bug line can get to their final stage even before your starter even evolve.
 
Fair enough on Sunkern. But the rest is somewhat canon. Caterpie is seen as below Pidgey, and is just its food. Along with Wurple and Tailow. And the 2nd forms are supposed to only increase in defense and not attack. Like, remember the harden battle in BoS? Finally, Beedrill is seen as powerful, and it does have a mega like the rest of the Pokémon we're ranking that high. And I though we were on the same page on Luvdisc?

Ninja'd so hard...
 
Yeah, I figured 8-A would be generous. High 8-C works better. I still think what I do about Beedrill and Butterfree tho, but I'm willing to concede if you so wish.

Or I completely misinterpreted what you said and you wish for them to be scaled to normal Pokémon of that caliber.
 
High 8-C for the early bugs in general. Just the final would be 8-B+ because how early they evolve.

And yes, while I'm aware of Mega Beedrill, it is a very special case.
 
Including Mega Audino. I understand that Audino would be High 8-C due to being the poor man's Chansey, and was thinking that myself. Also, I'm not sure how you wanna rate Beedrill/Mega Beedrill. He's a very special case, but for Megas or for bugs?
 
I've edited the fossil Pokemon to make them compared to Rampardos. Unless they should be scaled to the "At least 7-C, likely 7-B".
 
About fossils, considering how they evolve all at level 40, we should follow the next rule:

Pokemon that evolve at level 40 to 50: City level+ (Scaling from Abomasnow)

Pokemon that evolve at level 50 to 60: City level+ (Scaling from Volcarona)

Pseudo-Legendaries: Mountain level (Scaling from Tyranitar and from Hydreigon, who evolve even later than Volcarona)
 
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