Pokemon: Our Non-Legendary Profiles Aren't Good

[AidenBrooks999]

Wouldn't you have to make a seperate level scaling as well if you're actually going to use levels to scale? For instance any level 100 Pokemon will beat a level 1 Pokemon, so should we scale that level 100 Pokemon to the AP of the level 1 Pokemon it just beat?

The level scaling is only in terms of evolution. Just that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Thanks for calling my bluff SD. And you didn't even respond to my blog even when I sent you a heartfelt message.

She is not happy about this.

 

[SomebodyData]

I mentioned I like your scaling for the most part in my comment tho ;_;

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Fine. We cool still.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Again, pointing out that this beginning entry stuff, like "press b to run"

Comments like this make me think the admin status come froma prize in the cereal box, and I simply wasn't lucky enough.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

The level is a measurement of how strong a Pokémon currently is.
	~ Bulbapedia​

And several mentions of levels have occurs. Anime may shit on them, but so it does in general with other stuff. BAsically, levels are canon in game, but apparently people just shit on them because of that Game Mechanic fallacy they have thanks to other games.

 

[SomebodyData]

Thanks for essentially insulting all of the admins Aiden. It's pretty obvious what I meant. However, an ad hominem is not gonna help you avoid my question or provide evidence for your point.

The only thing it did was warrant a warning... Any further of this should be settled in private.

As for the bulbapedia quote... ok?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Guys calm down.....

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, I'd like to state something else. While I can confirm nor deny that I agree with level stuff (I go both ways on it. While I think that Pokemon that would be 8-A otherwise should be a TLCL (read my blog to see what that means) if it's a Pokemon that is both, acquired late and evolved late (like Pawniard, Vullaby, Rufflet, or dare I say Mienfoo), but I don't think they should get all new levels of the scaling. Also, it may be a case of the fact that some of those Pokemon are from games where leveling up is easy, which is why a good amount of Pokemon evolve late.), I can say that the anime brings it up every once in a while. I loosely remember a battle between Shiftry and Sceptile (or was it Grovyle?) happened and it was stated taht Shiftry had the level advantage. Also, I recall something being said about levels with Drake's Dragonite in Hello Pummelo/Enter The Dragonite.

Basically, here's what I want. Analogy. Bisharp as a TLCL? Definitely. Rapidash as a TLCL? No. Bisharp as a MCB+? I'm not fond of it, but I can accept it. Rapidash as a MCB+? Definitely. Bisharp evolves at 52, and Rapidash evolves at 40. Neither should scale to Abomasnow though, as it creates too much of a rift in the previous scaling.

@SD. Did you take a glance at my blog?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

"Basically, here's what I want. Analogy. Bisharp as a TLCL? Definitely. Rapidash as a TLCL? No. Bisharp as a MCB+? I'm not fond of it, but I can accept it. Rapidash as a MCB+? Definitely. Bisharp evolves at 52, and Rapidash evolves at 40. Neither should scale to Abomasnow though, as it creates too much of a rift in the previous scaling."

@Cal

Then your whole comment about accepting levels is threw out of the window becuase... You don`t like Rapidash?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@SD

BUt what you want to say? You ask for proof, I give you good proff, and all I get is "prEEsZ V tOh dANn"

 

[SomebodyData]

@Cal I did a while back after you messaged my wall, but didn't comment on in till recently. BTW (While this isn't the thread, just thought I bring this up) I think for now transonic speed by the way is ok, but I'm pretty sure we can find feats that should scale to most of the pkmn

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Wait, why wouldn't Rapidash scale? It's a fully evolved Pokemon after all.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Aiden Again, pointing out that a fallacy doesn't help at all and by the way, please stop making my argument stupid, unless you also consider "Press b to run" as canon. Also, please behave.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Rapidash is my example. And I love Rapidash. It... cute... lovely... smart... unbearably... plus... amazing... oh... you think so?... Too much... wild... beautiful... kindly... love it! Hug it... when... sleeping... warm and cuddly... Oh, and... spectacular... ravishing... simply divine... Oops! Look at the time! I kept you too long! Thanks for hearing me out! I want you to have this!

Replacing Rapidash with Jellicent ovo.

@SD. Sweet!

 

[SomebodyData]

lol @Cal

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Darkanine. I'm gonna paraphrase myself.

Most 2-Stage final form Pokemon wind up at 8-A. 2-Stage final form Pokemon wind up being TLCLs via being able to mega-evolve (Slowbro, Houndoom, Glailie, etc), having scaling to support it (Wailord, Milotic, Goliscopod), by being late game acquired Pokemon that evolve late, which is normally meant to signify some reward (Bisharp, Braviary, Mandibuzz, Crabominable) came from an 8-A already (Yanmega, Probopass, etc.), if they're normally seen as incredibly powerful (Arcanine, Ninetales [becaue she scales to Arcanine], or Vespiquen), or they're hyped up like crazy (Zoroark, Lycanroc). Same applies to Stage Pokemon. Mega evolve (Absol, Kangaskhan), Scaling to support (Dhelmise, Wishiwashi School Form), N/A for the next two, Seen as incredibly powerful (Spiritomb, Rotom)

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@SD then you just simply want to accept it. That's it. I give you profof, you shit on it. If you simply doesn't want to accept it then just stop remarking that.

@Cal then any weak-looking/dislikable-looking pokemon can't be strong? Now that's fallacious.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, I would like to post this last part from my blog, which is asking the community.

"For the most part, just comment if the following (?) Pokemon should go up or no:

Aipom to MCB+.

Tauros, Lapras, Togekiss, Turtonator, Excadrill, Zangoose, Seviper to become TLCLs. (I don't think Bewear is strong enough to get that tiering, if say, Ursaring, an angrier Bewear basically, wouldn't get it.) Another one I was curious was Skarmory. But that's all."

Basically, I'm saying that Tauros, Lapras, Turtonator, Excadrill, Zangoose, Seviper, and Skarmory could be considered the very powerful Pokemon that get scaling to "at least town level, likely city level" <==(this is what TLCL stands for), and since Aipom is a one stage Pokemon back unti gen 4, he gets put to MCB due to the rules, which would effectively make Ambipom a TLCL.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Cal don't ignore my comment.

And you still need to explain how you accept level scaling yet you simply ignore it for some pokemon?

 

[Dark649]

Sorry i don't know much about the comparison of overall strength about several Pokémon [Smogon divides them in tiers by their stats via game mechanic] and the speed stat of the fastest pseudos is even higher than the Hypersonic+ Hitmons if game mechanic is considered.

 

[PaChi2]

They are mentioned in most media:

1. go to 3:10

https://youtu.be/Pets6v7lcGY

2. Almost every single manga chapter.

3. Pretty sure they are mentioned in PMD, something like: I dont have enough level to evolve! from a pokemon which I dont remember.

4. That Pkm Adv reference.

5. Ingame.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

@SD then you just simply want to accept it. That's it. I give you profof, you shit on it. If you simply doesn't want to accept it then just stop remarking that.

@Cal then any weak-looking/dislikable-looking pokemon can't be strong? Now that's fallacious.

No offence, but if you seem to have a problem, you should take this to PM's.

Being rude to other members, let alone other staff, is a a serious no no. Lets not forget you're staff yourself, so not only is it your job to uphold the rules, you're supposed to be representing our community.

I apologise for interfering/disrupting the conversation, but I don't like to see people getting heated at each other.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

YOu lost me, Aiden. When did I point that out? I pointed to two Pokémon who Evolve >=40 that aren't fossils or pseudos. I wasn't trying to point out Pokémon that have 3 forms because I started with Rapidash. Wailord has a set tier already along with Abomasnow, and Rhydon.

I could use Sandyghast, Beyeheem, Glailie, or even Golurk, Drakalgae, or Drapion, all of who look strong. Also, I can't tell if you're making me out into a straw man or not. If you are, that would be false, as I have Dhelmise, a Pokémon that I kind of abhor, at the peak of my scaling without delving into Megas or pseudos.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, I said I accepted some level scaling at the beginning. What I said was that I thought 40 was too low, and that they shouldn't scale to Abomasnow, because that's the feat we use for the megas (Higher AP, but the same calc nonetheless). A two-stage Pokémon 50 and above I could put as a TLCL. Mienshao can be a TLCL but not a City+ character. It messes with the system that I've been working to establish, with your system for AP.

 

[SomebodyData]

@SD then you just simply want to accept it. That's it. I give you proof, you shit on it. If you simply doesn't want to accept it then just stop remarking that.

Can you please stop? We staff members shouldn't fall to the need of fallacies or the like. Answer my question, and please, if you don't understand why levels being mentioned in game as game mechanic hints (Like the "press b to run" comparison) shouldn't be accepted, just ask.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Seriously guys. Take this to a PM...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

WHY can't we be like the Digimon staff members? They're able to get things done because they're never at each other's necks and come to a compromise real quick. Not only has this conversation been toxic for a long while, but we've spent more time bickering than we did upgrading. Can we just compromise to use what I've spent so long to type?

 

[PaChi2]

If they are mentioned almost everywhere thery arent simply "game mehchanics" because "game mechanics" as the name implies, apply only to games.

 

[SomebodyData]

They are mentioned in most media:
1. go to 3:10

https://youtu.be/Pets6v7lcGY

2. Almost every single manga chapter.

3. Pretty sure they are mentioned in PMD, something like: I dont have enough level to evolve! from a pokemon which I dont remember.

4. That Pkm Adv reference.

5. Ingame.

1. Is he referring to their levels or is he referring to the fact that his Pokemon is stronger? Him saying that can be taken both ways.

2. Really? I don't remember that, and I have the first 7 volumes of Pokemon Adv (Or are you talking about another manga)

3. Again, really? While levels matter in that game, I'm pretty sure some Pokemon were under-leveled for their evolutions, but still they were evolved.

4. I mentioned that since it actually went against the idea of evolution based on levels.

5. Again, pointing out that this usually part of the game's help system, like "b to run"

.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Cal we came to a compromise long ago, the level part and behavior is the thing that is causing the conflict

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

IF we came to a compromise, why are we still arguing instead of using the search function to find the tier of the Pokémon you want to make/upgrade on my blog? I really like that blog...

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I'll concede here. While I don't think the whole idea of this upgrade is entirely safe, I still think it's the best we can settle for if we want to do this franchise any justice and actually have decent profiles for once.

 

[PaChi2]

@ SD:

1. You can interprete it both ways, but either way "Level" is used commonly for "strength" so I could say that "My pokemons are getting stronger" can mean also "My pokemon are levelling up", depends how you look at it.

2. Iirc Red's pokemon levels are written off at the start of almost every chapter? Maybe Im misremembering that. But I do remember that during the final fight against Lance Yellow's pokemon magically got a powerboost and that was reflected in their levels, then afterwards, they went back to their normal levels... lol.

3. I'd have to look for the quote, Im afraid, it was at the postgame.

4. and 5. just were there to proof that there was a general mention of levels.

However, Im just arguing for levels to not be only regarded as game mechanic, not to scale pokemon via level evolution. But ai do believe that pokemon who evolve latter have a stronger base (no stats) than the ones who evolve early, mostly because bug types who evolve fast are regarded as weak.

 

[SomebodyData]

Your blog is good, but needs more Pokemon memes. ovo Let's go upgrade what was accepted then, we can make a new thread for the level scaling / other things people didn't agree with later anyways.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Pachi

1. true, true, hence why I'm not sure it can be used either way.

2. That's actually her ability.

3. I see

4. and 5. I see as well.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I also dont think the level thing is valid, id prefer if we just set a fodder for each stage and scale everything to them.

But honestly, im so tired of worrying about the Pokemon profiles that I really dont care what people do with them anymore.

 

[PaChi2]

3. Its not the quote I wanted to find, but still: go to 22:10

https://youtu.be/F5QwiQ-ZCYQ

2. Point was that Power = Level. And that levels can decrease, something impossible in the games.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Also, I said I accepted some level scaling at the beginning. What I said was that I thought 40 was too low, and that they shouldn't scale to Abomasnow, because that's the feat we use for the megas (Higher AP, but the same calc nonetheless). A two-stage Pokémon 50 and above I could put as a TLCL. Mienshao can be a TLCL but not a City+ character. It messes with the system that I've been working to establish, with your system for AP.

Then explain City+ Abomasnow at level 40

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Simple. A feat. We're not scaling all Pokémon that Evolve at lvl 26 to Manectric's feat unless the criteria is fit, for example. Nor are we having Town level, likely City level Raticate due to evolving the same as Gyarados. The list exists for a reason.