- 10,464
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(Ugh. Lost the first version of this post to a crash.)
Put simply, viewing this thread, I believe there is some issue about the tiers of a number of Pokemon. While I'm unsure about scaling systems -Although I don't think
I believe there may be grounds supporting a small downgrade for Corsola, which is mentioned as being 8-A, possibly 7-C. This is because it can use Earth Power. Which has this calc behind it.
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/calc-storage-the-power-of-earth-pokemon-games.19430/
I can't think of much wrong with this calc, but it may help to look it over ourselves while we're doing this thread, as many Pokemon have that calc.
Now then.
In Pokemon Diamond, Pearl & Platinum, the player receives an item. The Pokétch
Now, it was difficult to find good, uncommentary playthrough video of that, so.... Here's a commentated video & a text dump.
https://gist.githubusercontent.com/...229547405bb/pokemon-platinum-text-dump-en.txt
https://youtu.be/96zMHfvza7c?t=1m52s
However, before the player gets the Pokétch, they meet the inventor of it, who currently manufactures it. To quote him:
"Oh, oh, oh? You call yourself a Pokémon Trainer? And yet you have no Pokétch? That is, Pokémon Watch, or Pokétch for short! Oh my, you are a rare case indeed! You see, I invented, and now manufacture, Pokétches. Not only that, I'm now conducting the Pokétch promotional campaign! All you have to do is find three clowns in Jubilife City. If you can find them... I will gift you with a Pokétch! The three clowns will each ask you\na skill-testing question. The questions will all have to do with Pokémon. After all, a Pokétch is a tool for Pokémon Trainers. Collect a Coupon from each clown, then come see me, OK?"
The inventor of a device for Pokemon Trainers, presumably quite common, with many apps for it, is holding a promotional campaign, with clowns -presumably to draw attention in a busy city- to ask "skill-testing questions" to trainers.
While he DOES approach the player character quite soon after spotting him or her, I can think a promotional campaign for such a big, reputable device would be a reasonable source of information. Clowns are more likely for attracting attention to the promotional campaign.
It's also unlikely this was set up JUST for the player character, so quickly on a whim.
And one of the questions & answers catches my attention:
"Hi! I'm a Pokétch campaign clown! Let's roll out my question! Just like Pokémon types, the moves of Pokémon also have types?"
If you answer correctly....
"Ding-ding! You're absolutely correct! If the Pokémon's type matches its move's type, that move is made much more powerful!"
These skill-testing questions are implied to be specifically asked to Pokemon Trainers as part of the promotional campaign, & there's little reason for the clowns to actually be making stuff up.
And again, after the player's answer to the question, is follow-up dialogue that definitely seems to support the existence of STAB, Same-Type Attack Bonus.
Some other evidence, although, some that might have a little more ground to dismiss it, is thanks to Pokemon Stadium 2.
https://youtu.be/TaV-15LTwOo?t=7m17s
Although I'm not quite COMPLETELY sure how much of it was present in the Japanese version, & his grammar & manner of speaking changed a little between G/S/C & Pokemon Stadium 2, Earl Dervish is an eccentric man.
What's more important is that in Violet City in the Generation 2 games, Earl is a teacher, & in Pokemon Stadium 2, he teaches at an academy in White City .
1 of his lectures on the topic of Moves in his Trainer Class series of lectures (From which I assume students advance to "Gym Leader Class", then "Elite Four Class".) is on Moves & Pokemon Types . He has this to say on that topic, which I believe covers STAB.
'"As you know, Pokemon and moves come in a variety of types. When a Pokemon' is attacking, if its type is the same as its move type, the move's impact will increase to 1.5 times its usual level."
Earl is present in both the main games & Pokemon Stadium 2, both times as a teacher, even if his speaking is a bit different between the two. He & his lectures could be argued as just a glorified game mechanics tutorial, but I think they're worth note & applying his statements on this wiki.
I believe what he says supports the existence of STAB: Same-Type Attack Bonus.
If we accepted this, then the AP provided by Earth Power, being used by non-Ground types, stands to have a decrease, by more or less, 1 third. This would depend on whether we use the more vague value of "much more powerful", or Earl's "1.5 times its usual level" to determine how much being Ground-type can amp Earth Power's AP.
I'm not that great at math, but of we accepted it, Corsola's Low End & High End AP with EP, respectively, would look something like:
116.193333 Tons for the Low End.
& 3.36 Kilotons for the High End.
I believe that's something like Low/At Least 8-A to Low 7-C? A small downgrade, but one nonetheless.
It would also stand to downgrade Magcargo... if Magcargo still had a page, lol.
As for Corsola being preyed upon by supposed fodder like Mareanie, we could A. Chalk that up to PIS for it being fodder taking out a supposedly very powerful character.
Or we could assume that it's a product of very specific hax.
It's quite clear that Corsola don't do well with polluted water. I'd dare assume it's toxic to them, if it makes their branches go discoloured, deteriorating & crumble away in tatters. They also take in nutrients from them. Our page on the species fails to mention this weakness to pollution among the species, I should mention.
Mareanie & Toxapex, meanwhile, are likely based on the Crown-of-thorns Starfish
Quoting Wikipedia:
To paraphrase Wikipedia, that kind of starfish preys on reef coral polyps, climbing onto sections of living coral colony, & uses secreted digestive enzymes to absorb nutrients from liquefied coral tissue, leaving a white scar of coral skeleton to be rapidly infested with filamentous algae.
They kill a lot of coral, put simply, so it's reasonable to assume that Mareanie & Toxapex, based on such species, & Corsola based on coral, that they would prey on them.
Corsola has a horrible time surviving in mere dirty water. Mareanie & Toxapex would actively seek to poison Corsola, so I can't imagine that its coral holds up too well.
Especially given that they love eating Corsola. I'd dare say they adapted specifically to it, with all the mention of their preying on it.
Besides that, these are wild Pokemon, not trained ones; A wild Corsola is not as likely to know to use Earth Power on a Mareanie or Toxapex, as opposed to its other moves, if it even acted rationally.
Put briefly, I think that it's either PIS, or very focused hax that Mareanie & Toxapex regularly overpower Corsola, & a wild Corsola isn't as likely to fight ideally.
There may also be risks of using moves like Earth Power possibly being dangerous to the stability of a Corsola colony that may or may not be holding something up.
The durability is also slightly questionable; Corsola "serve as ideal hiding places" to smaller species of Pokemon in its colonies, so if most of the Corsola species SHELTER many other species, & they live in colonies known to hold up settlements, how likely is it that Corsola regularly go into combat with each other? And don't have disastrous results?
Their AP is based on Earth Power, which they may not always use, yet their durability is based on their AP fighting each other. I advocate that many species of Pokemon are quite fond of fighting, but....
Corsola doesn't seem like a Pokemon liable to fight amongst its own species, & when it does, wild, untrained Corsola aren't guaranteed to use Earth Power on one another. The move is super-effective for that matter.
I'd assume they're capable of fighting one another reasonably well, but the durability rating, seems to me, like it's based off an unlikely scenario among the species. Possible, but unlikely.
I suppose it's possible they do have the Dura to survive Super-Effective Earth Power from one another.
But isn't it possible Corsola has high AP but low Durability? (& quite effective lifting strength in great numbers, possibly based on the geometry of their branches when all together.)
Not to mention that I'm not sure that calc considered Corsola to begin with. And if you'll notice, the basis of the calc involves lava erupting. I'm genuinely not confident in my knowledge of this area, but I assume that erupting lava may be less effective underwater.
This may also contribute to Corsola's AP with Earth Power being lower than other EP users, & contribute to it not always combatting Mareanie & Toxapex effectively & contribute to them surviving it from each other even if Corsola themselves have low Durability.
Hopefully you can all see my stance on this & agree.
Next. Magnemite.
I'm not sure about Magnemite's AP, SS & Dura, but I do want to call its speed rating into question.
First off, does it adhere to our standards on scaling for the Pokemon setting ?
The calc's most recent version for Magnemite's speed is from August 17th, 2016. Just over 9 months from today.
Our page on Pokemon says, regarding scaling:
"For this reason, it is better to strictly go by each Pokémon's individual feats and restricting power-scaling to certain species that are frequently shown to match or exceed the power level displayed by another character within the same story."
Second off, have Magnemite & Pikachu fought a lot? It's possible they might, if they're in the same area, which has happened (Just once, but at the Kanto Power Plant, which did have wild Pokemon for at least around 3 years.), but they may also be different speeds despite the same habitat.
Then there's the battle itself....
For all the geometry & lightning speed checking, I would like to ask about the trainers.
The calc originates from this clip . It's Ash vs Jasmine. Frankly, I wish I had the original Japanese version to fact check, but I'll have to make do.
Jasmine is the Gym Leader of Olivine City in Johto. As a Gym Leader she should be superior to an average trainer.
Trained Pokemon are often stated to be stronger than wild Pokemon, & Pokemon used by Gym Leaders are considered to be especially strong.
Brock, a former Gym Leader, but nonetheless, someone with experience & knowledge, I would assume, observes the battle along with Misty, another former Gym Leader, both from the neighbouring region of Kanto, & we get this exchange :
Misty: "Have you ever seen a Magnemite move that fast before, Brock?"
Brock: "No! Never! That Magnemite's awesome!"
Two former Gym Leaders with plenty of travelling experience are both visibly impressed by this Magnemite's speed, & Magnemite is a Pokemon from Kanto, the region they originate from. The Power Plant, where they could be found isn't even that far from Cerulean City & I assume Misty had some experience at least OBSERVING her fellow sisters battle as Gym Leaders.
In any case, the point is this: Wild Pokemon>Trained Pokemon>Gym Leader Trained Pokemon.
Yet we base Base Magnemite's speed on that of a Gym Leader's Magnemite specifically.
Not to mention it's in a battle against Ash, & again:
Our page on Pokemon says, regarding scaling:
"For this reason, it is better to strictly go by each Pokémon's individual feats and restricting power-scaling to certain species that are frequently shown to match or exceed the power level displayed by another character within the same story."
So I really feel uncertain that we should be using Jasmine's Magnemite's speed for base Magnemite when it should be a great deal superior to a wild or ordinarily trained for, presumably being excellently trained. Brock & Misty being impressed supports that it's an exceptional Magnemite, I would think.
Next up, Metagross. "Unknown | At least 8-A"
Maybe this isn't the best approach, but let's see what we can give with reputation to the species.
First off, a note. The anime uses rules about entering their tournaments .
Quoting Bulbapedia: "Trainers must register for the region's Pokémon League before they earn any of the region's Badges, something which they can do at seemingly any Pokémon Center or with a Pokémon Professor, and then must win at least eight of the region's Badges in order to be able to register for the competition."
Tyson's Metagross was worn down by Ash's Swellow, Grovyle & then beaten by his Pikachu.
We have a page for the Pokemon Adventures Sceptile which is Tiered at Tier: 8-A | At least 8-A, possibly higher. If Ash's Grovyle was comparable & likely being well-trained, it probably was, it may potentially be a Low 9-C maybe Low 9-B rating for that Grovyle.
Ash's Pikachu ( Tier: 8-C | At least 8-A. Higher by absorbing electricity ) was able to defeat Metagross after a mostly ineffectual Thunderbolt, Iron Tail, & a grab & then Thunder.
Tyson defeated Ash in the end however, & later became the Ever Grande Champio .
Even not knowing Tyson's Swellow's tier, that's at least a good show of durability.
It should also be noted Ash lost to Tyson in the top 8. To become champion, at least 1 1 Pokemon only battle, 3 Double Battles, & five consecutive Full Battles.
Annabelle, the Tower Tycoon, owned a Metagross which defeated Ash's Pikachu after it fought her Alakazam.
It later defeated Ash's weakened Corphish, & took a double knockout to Ash's Tauros. (Tauros is rated as 9-B.)
A Metagross went to a city with a Magnezone, & caused some moderate structural damage in combatting said Magnezone. The two are said to regularly battle to release excess energy that builds up in them due to the strong magnetic forces emitted by the mountains.
Alain's newly evolved Metagross, formerly a Metang, was the only one of his Pokemon that Alain lost in his battle against Remo. The scoreboard showed that, after Alain's Charizard defeated Remo's Rhyperior, Alain had defeated 5 of Remo's Pokemon, with again, Metagross as his only loss.
Remo 's Pokemon were a Pelipper, a Granbull, a Bouffalant, & a Gurdurr.
Bouffalant is 8-C, & Conkeldurr (Which Gurdurr evolves into, & so, should scale to.) is High 8-C, & said newly evolved Metagross potentially contributed to the defeat of them &/or Pelipper &/or Granbull.
Alain's Metagross was used against Ash's Pikachu & put up a good fight, but lost.
Steven's Metagross, before Mega-Evolving, had little challenge redirecting Alain's already Mega-Evolved Charizard's Flamethrower. Said Mega Metagross also does considerable damage to a mountain top, slamming Charizard in, as Darkanine's calc shows. Albeit, Charizard's "endurance" was supposedly reduced by Flash Cannon even though FC reduces Sp. Def.
Later the same Mega Metagross & Mega Charizard X face Mega Rayquaza.
Mega Charizard X takes considerable damage from Dragon Ascent, & Metagross is able to dodge several of the falling meteors from Mega Rayquaza's Draco Meteor. A considerable explosion occurs about 20 minutes in, & thanks to us seeing the two Mega Pokemon flying a little later, we know they both survived it.
Said Mega Metagross of Steven's later fought alongside Mega Charizard X again, with Mega Charizard X combatting Primal Groudon & Mega Metagross doing some damage to Primal Kyogre.
It also helped to combat the Megalith Zygarde.
In the manga, Emerald borrows Crystal's Metagross to fight a Charizard which defeated Crystal's Alakazam, & then, despite taking heavy damage from Rock Tomb, defeated Metagross.
Honestly, I think, aside from the Mega Metagross feats, Tyson's could be the most impressive for beating Grovyle, Swellow, & while not hitting Pikachu, tanking hits from it. Maybe Anabel's for curbstomping Ash's -admittedly partially weakened- Pikachu.
Alain's is definitely impressive; Shortly after evolving, it took on at least one of a Bouffalant, a Gurdurr, Pelipper, a Granbull, & a Rhyperior, even if it lost at some point, & we don't know when; We just know that before Charizard took out Rhyperior, Alain had only lost Metagross.
Tyso has been one of Ash's rivals.
Remo also fought Alain once, albeit, only with his Mega Garchomp, which lost.
So maybe those two are candidates to help with scaling.
In any case, please pardon all the words. Hope all this helps with scaling, determining tiers, etc.! Probably gonna see about finding stuff for other pseudos -like Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, etc.- & others.
But for now, I'm pretty sure I've worked on this post for over 7 hours straight. Hope it helps & is appreciated, all!
Put simply, viewing this thread, I believe there is some issue about the tiers of a number of Pokemon. While I'm unsure about scaling systems -Although I don't think
I believe there may be grounds supporting a small downgrade for Corsola, which is mentioned as being 8-A, possibly 7-C. This is because it can use Earth Power. Which has this calc behind it.
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/calc-storage-the-power-of-earth-pokemon-games.19430/
I can't think of much wrong with this calc, but it may help to look it over ourselves while we're doing this thread, as many Pokemon have that calc.
Now then.
In Pokemon Diamond, Pearl & Platinum, the player receives an item. The Pokétch
Now, it was difficult to find good, uncommentary playthrough video of that, so.... Here's a commentated video & a text dump.
https://gist.githubusercontent.com/...229547405bb/pokemon-platinum-text-dump-en.txt
https://youtu.be/96zMHfvza7c?t=1m52s
However, before the player gets the Pokétch, they meet the inventor of it, who currently manufactures it. To quote him:
"Oh, oh, oh? You call yourself a Pokémon Trainer? And yet you have no Pokétch? That is, Pokémon Watch, or Pokétch for short! Oh my, you are a rare case indeed! You see, I invented, and now manufacture, Pokétches. Not only that, I'm now conducting the Pokétch promotional campaign! All you have to do is find three clowns in Jubilife City. If you can find them... I will gift you with a Pokétch! The three clowns will each ask you\na skill-testing question. The questions will all have to do with Pokémon. After all, a Pokétch is a tool for Pokémon Trainers. Collect a Coupon from each clown, then come see me, OK?"
The inventor of a device for Pokemon Trainers, presumably quite common, with many apps for it, is holding a promotional campaign, with clowns -presumably to draw attention in a busy city- to ask "skill-testing questions" to trainers.
While he DOES approach the player character quite soon after spotting him or her, I can think a promotional campaign for such a big, reputable device would be a reasonable source of information. Clowns are more likely for attracting attention to the promotional campaign.
It's also unlikely this was set up JUST for the player character, so quickly on a whim.
And one of the questions & answers catches my attention:
"Hi! I'm a Pokétch campaign clown! Let's roll out my question! Just like Pokémon types, the moves of Pokémon also have types?"
If you answer correctly....
"Ding-ding! You're absolutely correct! If the Pokémon's type matches its move's type, that move is made much more powerful!"
These skill-testing questions are implied to be specifically asked to Pokemon Trainers as part of the promotional campaign, & there's little reason for the clowns to actually be making stuff up.
And again, after the player's answer to the question, is follow-up dialogue that definitely seems to support the existence of STAB, Same-Type Attack Bonus.
Some other evidence, although, some that might have a little more ground to dismiss it, is thanks to Pokemon Stadium 2.
https://youtu.be/TaV-15LTwOo?t=7m17s
Although I'm not quite COMPLETELY sure how much of it was present in the Japanese version, & his grammar & manner of speaking changed a little between G/S/C & Pokemon Stadium 2, Earl Dervish is an eccentric man.
What's more important is that in Violet City in the Generation 2 games, Earl is a teacher, & in Pokemon Stadium 2, he teaches at an academy in White City .
1 of his lectures on the topic of Moves in his Trainer Class series of lectures (From which I assume students advance to "Gym Leader Class", then "Elite Four Class".) is on Moves & Pokemon Types . He has this to say on that topic, which I believe covers STAB.
'"As you know, Pokemon and moves come in a variety of types. When a Pokemon' is attacking, if its type is the same as its move type, the move's impact will increase to 1.5 times its usual level."
Earl is present in both the main games & Pokemon Stadium 2, both times as a teacher, even if his speaking is a bit different between the two. He & his lectures could be argued as just a glorified game mechanics tutorial, but I think they're worth note & applying his statements on this wiki.
I believe what he says supports the existence of STAB: Same-Type Attack Bonus.
If we accepted this, then the AP provided by Earth Power, being used by non-Ground types, stands to have a decrease, by more or less, 1 third. This would depend on whether we use the more vague value of "much more powerful", or Earl's "1.5 times its usual level" to determine how much being Ground-type can amp Earth Power's AP.
I'm not that great at math, but of we accepted it, Corsola's Low End & High End AP with EP, respectively, would look something like:
116.193333 Tons for the Low End.
& 3.36 Kilotons for the High End.
I believe that's something like Low/At Least 8-A to Low 7-C? A small downgrade, but one nonetheless.
It would also stand to downgrade Magcargo... if Magcargo still had a page, lol.
As for Corsola being preyed upon by supposed fodder like Mareanie, we could A. Chalk that up to PIS for it being fodder taking out a supposedly very powerful character.
Or we could assume that it's a product of very specific hax.
| Silver | In a south sea nation, the people live in communities that are built on groups of these Pokémon. |
|---|---|
| Crystal | The points on its head absorb nutrients from clear water. They cannot survive in polluted water. |
| Sapphire | Clusters of Corsola congregate in warm seas where they serve as ideal hiding places for smaller Pokémon. When the water temperature falls, this Pokémon migrates to the southern seas. |
|---|---|
| Emerald | Corsola live in warm southern seas. If the sea becomes polluted, the beautiful coral stalks become discolored and crumble away in tatters. |
It's quite clear that Corsola don't do well with polluted water. I'd dare assume it's toxic to them, if it makes their branches go discoloured, deteriorating & crumble away in tatters. They also take in nutrients from them. Our page on the species fails to mention this weakness to pollution among the species, I should mention.
Mareanie & Toxapex, meanwhile, are likely based on the Crown-of-thorns Starfish
Quoting Wikipedia:
To paraphrase Wikipedia, that kind of starfish preys on reef coral polyps, climbing onto sections of living coral colony, & uses secreted digestive enzymes to absorb nutrients from liquefied coral tissue, leaving a white scar of coral skeleton to be rapidly infested with filamentous algae.
They kill a lot of coral, put simply, so it's reasonable to assume that Mareanie & Toxapex, based on such species, & Corsola based on coral, that they would prey on them.
Corsola has a horrible time surviving in mere dirty water. Mareanie & Toxapex would actively seek to poison Corsola, so I can't imagine that its coral holds up too well.
| Moo | It's found crawling on beaches and seafloors. The coral that grows on Corsola's head is as good as a five-star banquet to this Pokémon. |
|---|
Besides that, these are wild Pokemon, not trained ones; A wild Corsola is not as likely to know to use Earth Power on a Mareanie or Toxapex, as opposed to its other moves, if it even acted rationally.
Put briefly, I think that it's either PIS, or very focused hax that Mareanie & Toxapex regularly overpower Corsola, & a wild Corsola isn't as likely to fight ideally.
There may also be risks of using moves like Earth Power possibly being dangerous to the stability of a Corsola colony that may or may not be holding something up.
The durability is also slightly questionable; Corsola "serve as ideal hiding places" to smaller species of Pokemon in its colonies, so if most of the Corsola species SHELTER many other species, & they live in colonies known to hold up settlements, how likely is it that Corsola regularly go into combat with each other? And don't have disastrous results?
Their AP is based on Earth Power, which they may not always use, yet their durability is based on their AP fighting each other. I advocate that many species of Pokemon are quite fond of fighting, but....
Corsola doesn't seem like a Pokemon liable to fight amongst its own species, & when it does, wild, untrained Corsola aren't guaranteed to use Earth Power on one another. The move is super-effective for that matter.
I'd assume they're capable of fighting one another reasonably well, but the durability rating, seems to me, like it's based off an unlikely scenario among the species. Possible, but unlikely.
I suppose it's possible they do have the Dura to survive Super-Effective Earth Power from one another.
But isn't it possible Corsola has high AP but low Durability? (& quite effective lifting strength in great numbers, possibly based on the geometry of their branches when all together.)
Not to mention that I'm not sure that calc considered Corsola to begin with. And if you'll notice, the basis of the calc involves lava erupting. I'm genuinely not confident in my knowledge of this area, but I assume that erupting lava may be less effective underwater.
This may also contribute to Corsola's AP with Earth Power being lower than other EP users, & contribute to it not always combatting Mareanie & Toxapex effectively & contribute to them surviving it from each other even if Corsola themselves have low Durability.
Hopefully you can all see my stance on this & agree.
Next. Magnemite.
I'm not sure about Magnemite's AP, SS & Dura, but I do want to call its speed rating into question.
First off, does it adhere to our standards on scaling for the Pokemon setting ?
The calc's most recent version for Magnemite's speed is from August 17th, 2016. Just over 9 months from today.
Our page on Pokemon says, regarding scaling:
"For this reason, it is better to strictly go by each Pokémon's individual feats and restricting power-scaling to certain species that are frequently shown to match or exceed the power level displayed by another character within the same story."
Second off, have Magnemite & Pikachu fought a lot? It's possible they might, if they're in the same area, which has happened (Just once, but at the Kanto Power Plant, which did have wild Pokemon for at least around 3 years.), but they may also be different speeds despite the same habitat.
Then there's the battle itself....
For all the geometry & lightning speed checking, I would like to ask about the trainers.
The calc originates from this clip . It's Ash vs Jasmine. Frankly, I wish I had the original Japanese version to fact check, but I'll have to make do.
Jasmine is the Gym Leader of Olivine City in Johto. As a Gym Leader she should be superior to an average trainer.
Trained Pokemon are often stated to be stronger than wild Pokemon, & Pokemon used by Gym Leaders are considered to be especially strong.
Brock, a former Gym Leader, but nonetheless, someone with experience & knowledge, I would assume, observes the battle along with Misty, another former Gym Leader, both from the neighbouring region of Kanto, & we get this exchange :
Misty: "Have you ever seen a Magnemite move that fast before, Brock?"
Brock: "No! Never! That Magnemite's awesome!"
Two former Gym Leaders with plenty of travelling experience are both visibly impressed by this Magnemite's speed, & Magnemite is a Pokemon from Kanto, the region they originate from. The Power Plant, where they could be found isn't even that far from Cerulean City & I assume Misty had some experience at least OBSERVING her fellow sisters battle as Gym Leaders.
In any case, the point is this: Wild Pokemon>Trained Pokemon>Gym Leader Trained Pokemon.
Yet we base Base Magnemite's speed on that of a Gym Leader's Magnemite specifically.
Not to mention it's in a battle against Ash, & again:
Our page on Pokemon says, regarding scaling:
"For this reason, it is better to strictly go by each Pokémon's individual feats and restricting power-scaling to certain species that are frequently shown to match or exceed the power level displayed by another character within the same story."
So I really feel uncertain that we should be using Jasmine's Magnemite's speed for base Magnemite when it should be a great deal superior to a wild or ordinarily trained for, presumably being excellently trained. Brock & Misty being impressed supports that it's an exceptional Magnemite, I would think.
Next up, Metagross. "Unknown | At least 8-A"
Maybe this isn't the best approach, but let's see what we can give with reputation to the species.
First off, a note. The anime uses rules about entering their tournaments .
Quoting Bulbapedia: "Trainers must register for the region's Pokémon League before they earn any of the region's Badges, something which they can do at seemingly any Pokémon Center or with a Pokémon Professor, and then must win at least eight of the region's Badges in order to be able to register for the competition."
Tyson's Metagross was worn down by Ash's Swellow, Grovyle & then beaten by his Pikachu.
We have a page for the Pokemon Adventures Sceptile which is Tiered at Tier: 8-A | At least 8-A, possibly higher. If Ash's Grovyle was comparable & likely being well-trained, it probably was, it may potentially be a Low 9-C maybe Low 9-B rating for that Grovyle.
Ash's Pikachu ( Tier: 8-C | At least 8-A. Higher by absorbing electricity ) was able to defeat Metagross after a mostly ineffectual Thunderbolt, Iron Tail, & a grab & then Thunder.
Tyson defeated Ash in the end however, & later became the Ever Grande Champio .
Even not knowing Tyson's Swellow's tier, that's at least a good show of durability.
It should also be noted Ash lost to Tyson in the top 8. To become champion, at least 1 1 Pokemon only battle, 3 Double Battles, & five consecutive Full Battles.
Annabelle, the Tower Tycoon, owned a Metagross which defeated Ash's Pikachu after it fought her Alakazam.
It later defeated Ash's weakened Corphish, & took a double knockout to Ash's Tauros. (Tauros is rated as 9-B.)
A Metagross went to a city with a Magnezone, & caused some moderate structural damage in combatting said Magnezone. The two are said to regularly battle to release excess energy that builds up in them due to the strong magnetic forces emitted by the mountains.
Alain's newly evolved Metagross, formerly a Metang, was the only one of his Pokemon that Alain lost in his battle against Remo. The scoreboard showed that, after Alain's Charizard defeated Remo's Rhyperior, Alain had defeated 5 of Remo's Pokemon, with again, Metagross as his only loss.
Remo 's Pokemon were a Pelipper, a Granbull, a Bouffalant, & a Gurdurr.
Bouffalant is 8-C, & Conkeldurr (Which Gurdurr evolves into, & so, should scale to.) is High 8-C, & said newly evolved Metagross potentially contributed to the defeat of them &/or Pelipper &/or Granbull.
Alain's Metagross was used against Ash's Pikachu & put up a good fight, but lost.
Steven's Metagross, before Mega-Evolving, had little challenge redirecting Alain's already Mega-Evolved Charizard's Flamethrower. Said Mega Metagross also does considerable damage to a mountain top, slamming Charizard in, as Darkanine's calc shows. Albeit, Charizard's "endurance" was supposedly reduced by Flash Cannon even though FC reduces Sp. Def.
Later the same Mega Metagross & Mega Charizard X face Mega Rayquaza.
Mega Charizard X takes considerable damage from Dragon Ascent, & Metagross is able to dodge several of the falling meteors from Mega Rayquaza's Draco Meteor. A considerable explosion occurs about 20 minutes in, & thanks to us seeing the two Mega Pokemon flying a little later, we know they both survived it.
Said Mega Metagross of Steven's later fought alongside Mega Charizard X again, with Mega Charizard X combatting Primal Groudon & Mega Metagross doing some damage to Primal Kyogre.
It also helped to combat the Megalith Zygarde.
In the manga, Emerald borrows Crystal's Metagross to fight a Charizard which defeated Crystal's Alakazam, & then, despite taking heavy damage from Rock Tomb, defeated Metagross.
Honestly, I think, aside from the Mega Metagross feats, Tyson's could be the most impressive for beating Grovyle, Swellow, & while not hitting Pikachu, tanking hits from it. Maybe Anabel's for curbstomping Ash's -admittedly partially weakened- Pikachu.
Alain's is definitely impressive; Shortly after evolving, it took on at least one of a Bouffalant, a Gurdurr, Pelipper, a Granbull, & a Rhyperior, even if it lost at some point, & we don't know when; We just know that before Charizard took out Rhyperior, Alain had only lost Metagross.
Tyso has been one of Ash's rivals.
Remo also fought Alain once, albeit, only with his Mega Garchomp, which lost.
So maybe those two are candidates to help with scaling.
In any case, please pardon all the words. Hope all this helps with scaling, determining tiers, etc.! Probably gonna see about finding stuff for other pseudos -like Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, etc.- & others.
But for now, I'm pretty sure I've worked on this post for over 7 hours straight. Hope it helps & is appreciated, all!
