- 9,769
- 3,540
I apologize for speaking like this, but I find some aspects of Aiden's suggestion questionable.
What tier exactly would we be putting exceptionally weak (Magikarp, Wimpod, etc.?) AND Baby Pokemon at? I'd hope we're tiering them individually, given that some Baby Pokemon do have statements that may be worth considering, & that's before we get into the anime.
Again, I don't know where we'd be putting them, but a Magby can shoot 1,100 degree flames, Elekid is comparable to Togedemaru -not an evolved Pokemon, but it doesn't evolve any further either- Azurill has Huge Power & can spin its tail with enough momentum to throw itself up to 33 feet, & the anime suggests the Cleffa line arrived from space. In the Pokedex entries, it's suggested to be via meteors.
Oh, & Riolu has a good statement about its speed & stamina:
Then there's the matter of Pidgeot.
I'd assume the fact they're an early line, where they're found & what level they evolve it is for gameplay balancing, & their in-games stats aren't necessarily tied to their in-universe power.
I don't disagree with Pidgeot's VSBattles stats, but Pidgeot aren't found in the wild anywhere in the games. They're stated to hunt Magikarp in Pokedex entries for Red/Blue, Leaf Green, Crystal & X, but they aren't found in the wild in any of those games.
Pidgeotto hunts at least Exeggute, but it's only found wild in Kanto & Johto reason.
Not to mention I'm not sure we should be assuming it's comparable to any Middle or Second stage Pokemon just because it is one itself.
And looking at Bulbapedia....
Starter Pokemo "In the core series games, it is said that the starter Pokémon are extremely rare, giving the player a reason why the Pokémon not chosen can't be found in the wild."
If these are very rare, professor-given Pokemon not normally found wild in the region, then why assume they're comparable to nearby wild Pokemon to begin with?
And I think giving Final/Third Stage Pokemon stats based on them being final/third stage is questionable as well.
And what makes us sure a Pokemon is vastly superior to its pre-evolution without feats?
The inclusion of levels -even if the anime has acknowledged them sometimes- also seems odd. Many Pokemon, from pseudolegendary lines or otherwise, evolve at low levels and there are a few from three stage lines or less that aren't pseudolegendaries that evolve in the late 40s or higher.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_that_evolve_at_or_above_a_certain_level
It would seem odd to me if we rated Pokemon like Jumpluff, Gardevoir, Luxray, Staraptor, Stoutland, Unpheasant, Gothitelle & possibly still others as "At least Town level, likely City level for Third/Final stage" for being Third/Final Stage Pokemon that evolve at comparable levels to starters.
And Lairon doesn't evolve at THAT high of a level. It evolves at level 42, compared to the level of the starters reaching their final stage at 36, while the lowest level a Pseudolegendary line reaches its Third/Final stage at is Metang to Metagross's & Hakamo-o to Kommo-o's level 45. Followed by 48 for Gabite to Garchomp, then 50 for Shelgon to Salamence.
You said "(Except for Pokemon like Tyranitar or Aggron and others, since they evolved at a very high level)", but Pupitar has the THIRD HIGHEST evolutionary level needed among Pokemon in order to reach its Final/Third stage, Tyranitar at Level 55, compared to Lairon becoming Aggron at level 42.
Again, I don't think using levels of evolution & what stage of its evolutionary line a Pokemon is to justify its tier is entirely sound, no matter if they're completely evolved, completely unevolved, or in-between.
I don't think it's entirely reasonable to scale all first stage Pokemon to Pikachu when they may not have had any reason to encounter it, combat it, exhibit similar feats, etc.
Same with comparing other stages of Pokemon to another they have little in common with (Like Pidgeotto & Pidgeot) beyond what stage of their evolutionary line they are at; Again, some may not even be in the same region!
I'm uncertain we should just entirely disregard statements & anime feats baby Pokemon have, weak as they are. Much less group immediately them with bottom of the barrel weaklings like Wishiwashi-solo, Magikarp & Wimpod.
Such an assumption sets a strange precedent to assume for a huge number of diverse species, and such an assumed precedent could get contradicted a number of times by official material, I think.
If we DO accept putting up such an assumption about all Pokemon, I think at the very least, we should still put feats, statements, etcetera before assuming that a Pokemon's stage in its evolutionary line, or what level it evolves at -which may be created just for game balancing- is reason to believe it should be a certain tier, as opposed to what official sources may indicate.
What tier exactly would we be putting exceptionally weak (Magikarp, Wimpod, etc.?) AND Baby Pokemon at? I'd hope we're tiering them individually, given that some Baby Pokemon do have statements that may be worth considering, & that's before we get into the anime.
Again, I don't know where we'd be putting them, but a Magby can shoot 1,100 degree flames, Elekid is comparable to Togedemaru -not an evolved Pokemon, but it doesn't evolve any further either- Azurill has Huge Power & can spin its tail with enough momentum to throw itself up to 33 feet, & the anime suggests the Cleffa line arrived from space. In the Pokedex entries, it's suggested to be via meteors.
Oh, & Riolu has a good statement about its speed & stamina:
| Pearl | Its body is little yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night. |
|---|
Then there's the matter of Pidgeot.
I'd assume the fact they're an early line, where they're found & what level they evolve it is for gameplay balancing, & their in-games stats aren't necessarily tied to their in-universe power.
I don't disagree with Pidgeot's VSBattles stats, but Pidgeot aren't found in the wild anywhere in the games. They're stated to hunt Magikarp in Pokedex entries for Red/Blue, Leaf Green, Crystal & X, but they aren't found in the wild in any of those games.
Pidgeotto hunts at least Exeggute, but it's only found wild in Kanto & Johto reason.
Not to mention I'm not sure we should be assuming it's comparable to any Middle or Second stage Pokemon just because it is one itself.
And looking at Bulbapedia....
Starter Pokemo "In the core series games, it is said that the starter Pokémon are extremely rare, giving the player a reason why the Pokémon not chosen can't be found in the wild."
If these are very rare, professor-given Pokemon not normally found wild in the region, then why assume they're comparable to nearby wild Pokemon to begin with?
And I think giving Final/Third Stage Pokemon stats based on them being final/third stage is questionable as well.
And what makes us sure a Pokemon is vastly superior to its pre-evolution without feats?
The inclusion of levels -even if the anime has acknowledged them sometimes- also seems odd. Many Pokemon, from pseudolegendary lines or otherwise, evolve at low levels and there are a few from three stage lines or less that aren't pseudolegendaries that evolve in the late 40s or higher.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_that_evolve_at_or_above_a_certain_level
It would seem odd to me if we rated Pokemon like Jumpluff, Gardevoir, Luxray, Staraptor, Stoutland, Unpheasant, Gothitelle & possibly still others as "At least Town level, likely City level for Third/Final stage" for being Third/Final Stage Pokemon that evolve at comparable levels to starters.
And Lairon doesn't evolve at THAT high of a level. It evolves at level 42, compared to the level of the starters reaching their final stage at 36, while the lowest level a Pseudolegendary line reaches its Third/Final stage at is Metang to Metagross's & Hakamo-o to Kommo-o's level 45. Followed by 48 for Gabite to Garchomp, then 50 for Shelgon to Salamence.
You said "(Except for Pokemon like Tyranitar or Aggron and others, since they evolved at a very high level)", but Pupitar has the THIRD HIGHEST evolutionary level needed among Pokemon in order to reach its Final/Third stage, Tyranitar at Level 55, compared to Lairon becoming Aggron at level 42.
Again, I don't think using levels of evolution & what stage of its evolutionary line a Pokemon is to justify its tier is entirely sound, no matter if they're completely evolved, completely unevolved, or in-between.
I don't think it's entirely reasonable to scale all first stage Pokemon to Pikachu when they may not have had any reason to encounter it, combat it, exhibit similar feats, etc.
Same with comparing other stages of Pokemon to another they have little in common with (Like Pidgeotto & Pidgeot) beyond what stage of their evolutionary line they are at; Again, some may not even be in the same region!
I'm uncertain we should just entirely disregard statements & anime feats baby Pokemon have, weak as they are. Much less group immediately them with bottom of the barrel weaklings like Wishiwashi-solo, Magikarp & Wimpod.
Such an assumption sets a strange precedent to assume for a huge number of diverse species, and such an assumed precedent could get contradicted a number of times by official material, I think.
If we DO accept putting up such an assumption about all Pokemon, I think at the very least, we should still put feats, statements, etcetera before assuming that a Pokemon's stage in its evolutionary line, or what level it evolves at -which may be created just for game balancing- is reason to believe it should be a certain tier, as opposed to what official sources may indicate.
