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Pokemon: God Tiers Ability Revisions

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NeoZex6399 said:
Cynthia claims to feel the powers of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina on Arceus in HG/SS.
In addition, the only Arceus you can legally obtain in gen 4 has the unique moves of Dialga/Palkia and Giratina.

But this is redundant with the "original spirit" stuff around here.

Arceusmoves
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Isn't this proof?
 
Also, the Kyubey analogy is absolutely terrible. Not only is he not creating a entire being, but rather giving them powers explicitly unique to them based on heir psyche, and explicitly does not have any emotions whatsoever so couldn't use them even if someone else did, as well as the extreme piower they hold explicitly being due to unnatural circumstances.
 
Yes, the majority of the times, if a character that has power bestowal cannot use the powers he grants for himself, it's because he has no right to use them for himself, like in the case of genies for examples.
 
In this case, Arceus has in fact shown their abilities multiple times and is responsible for every thing they embody as well as being capable of easily recreating them. Creating their powers is by no means a wank
 
TheNeolancer said:
@DMB But is Arceus an example of this?
Click to expand...
No, he isn't, if fact, he has demostrated multiple times to be able to use the same powers that he grants.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Also, the Kyubey analogy is absolutely terrible. Not only is he not creating a entire being, but rather giving them powers explicitly unique to them based on heir psyche, and explicitly does not have any emotions whatsoever so couldn't use them even if someone else did, as well as the extreme piower they hold explicitly being due to unnatural circumstances.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that Madoka, upon becoming the Law of Cycles, has all the Magical Girl abilities.
 
Also, I have to write and prepare a speech for tomorrow, so I probably won't be responding for the next 24 hours.
 
Just going to add in that, as clarifed in like 3 threads, The Creation and Lake Trio's are literal parts of Arceus as well.

I agree with our power bestowal rules being crap (with due respect). It should at the bare minimum be a case by case basis as clearly the above example with Kyubi is a different case and here Arceus should have more than enough in his favor.
 
I don't really care if Arceus gets the powers or not, I was just addressing what Cal was saying about power bestowal. If there are proofs then fine, but what I meant is that it needs to be proven that whoever gives the powers can use them and not it being the common assumption.

It doesn't need to be case by case when there are only two possible general cases. And Kyubey is a fine example of one of the two putting aside the eventual motivations that there might be in verse.
 
The real cal howard said:
Not to mention that Madoka, upon becoming the Law of Cycles, has all the Magical Girl abilities.
Click to expand...
That has nothing to do with power bestowal tho.

And btw the power bestowal rules are case by case. Simply, the default assumption is that you don't get them unless evidence points towards the opposite
 
This is definitely not closed lol. There is still much to be discussed. We're just waiting on our users to be done with their real life endeavors.
 
If you think doing a speech on black holes sucks, just wait until the later speech on supernovas. That one is just gonna blow.
 
Well which of the Creation Trio's abilities do we know get excluded, since Assalt has agreed on everything Cal has said for the lake trio.
 
Here's what I have to mention to some of the OP's explanations:

  • "Immunity to Soul Manipulation: It was never stated that any of the CT "predate souls" to my knowledge. Also, even if they did, they likely still obtained one when such souls came into being. But I still ask for the "predating souls" part, since I don't remember Pokemon ever referencing souls."
To further add to this, even if that were the case, the reasoning "predating souls" alone would be just Soul Resistance, not outright immunity to it.

  • "Causality Manipulation & Acausality: "Distorting natural law" needs to be put into context here. The CT using their powers to distort the world is not causality manipulation. It is just Space, Time, and Antimatter manipulation, respectively. Causality or causal progression is never broken, and Arceus is directly subject to causality, as shown by the entire plot of Arceus and the Jewel of Life."
That would be a form of Law Manip. or something similar when distorting natural laws.

*"Darkness Manipulation: What "darkness" attack is this? Foul Play? Nothing is elaborated on here."

To further add to this, Darkness Projection =/= Darkness Manip. Energy Projection = Another word for any form of energy-based attacks.

*"Non-Corporeality: This only applies when they are not in their avatars. Their avatar forms are perfectly corporeal."

Did I just clearly separated the 2 according to their keys and placed Non-Corporeality with their true forms that one time?

*"Law Manipulation: No. Unless literally every creator god gets this, neither does Arceus. He makes space and time. This happens for all creators.

  • I added it due to some line off of Bulbapedia, stating that he did this, but you're probably right here."
Yea, Law Creation to be specific but it will technically be added as more justification for Creation only in this case for every one of them though.
 
I have thoughts. By as you can see from my recent contributions, my one recently has been very limited and I can't go on a tirade, for lack of a better term.
 
@Magi

-Your addition to the predating souls part makes no sense. The reason they have immunity to soul manip is because they lack a soul entirely. That's immunity, not resistance just like anyone else on this site has for the same thing. You can't manipulate what isn't there.

-Cal already talked about the "distorting casual law" stuff and referencing the plot of a almost 100% PIS movie isnt an argument.

-Darkness manip was argued above and I dont really care for it. However, Judgement via Dark typing would still classify as Darkness Manipylation at the bare minimum.

-Avatars being corporeal...I thought this was common sense? And I mean this with respect.

-Law Manip I dont have an opinion on yet. However IIRC he got it because he established the laws and rules of the multiverse when making it, hence the previous Note 3 on Arceus's page.
 
@Professor

  • "Your addition to the predating souls part makes no sense. The reason they have immunity to soul manip is because they lack a soul entirely. That's immunity, not resistance just like anyone else on this site has for the same thing. You can't manipulate what isn't there."
Usually when "predating" is mentioned, its means hunting/eating, so you must have been referring to the other definition. My mistake then but I suggest it should have mentioned something like "Pre-existed the concept of souls" or something similar for less confusion.

  • "-Cal already talked about the "distorting casual law" stuff and referencing the plot of a almost 100% PIS movie isnt an argument."
I never said anything about referencing the plot

  • "-Darkness manip was argued above and I dont really care for it. However, Judgement via Dark typing would still classify as Darkness Manipylation at the bare minimum."
Its more closer being classified as Darkness Projection since its a type of Darkness-based attack.

  • "-Avatars being corporeal...I thought this was common sense? And I mean this with respect."
Honestly and same here.

  • "-Law Manip I dont have an opinion on yet. However IIRC he got it because he established the laws and rules of the multiverse when making it, hence the previous Note 3 on Arceus's page."
I find nothing wrong with that as long as there are available sources/links along with it to back the info. up.
 
@Magi

I'm not AS knowledgable on Pokemon as other's here, but here's my own two cents.

"Usually when "predating" is mentioned, its means hunting/eating, so you must have been referring to the other definition. My mistake then but I suggest it should have mentioned something like "Pre-existed the concept of souls" or something similar for less confusion."

No...it doesn't. Usually when predating is mentioned, it means predating. I'm not sure where you drew the correlation between "predating" and "hunting/eating" when they have nothing in common. If something is said to predate something, then it predates.

"

I agree with everything else
 
Maybe Magi got confused over how "predator" means "animal that hunts/eats other animals" and "predate" means "comes before the existence of"?
 
Well Arceus is a Llama soo he has prey OvO

But in all seriousness, @Magi we're on the same page now and I can agree to the first point being more detailed and clear if not already.
 
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