GodlyCharmander
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That's just argument from incredulity. This doesn't dismiss a connection if there is one. (Because surprise, surprise, this version doesn't scale to the others)
Fair enough.
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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
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That's called pointing out obvious difference in lore.
Besides, the "nobody scale to this version" is 100% arbitrary and just a way to dodge the elephant in the room.
It isn't done with any of the other media/work considered canon as of now. Only PMD without any reason besides trying to keep it despite it's veeeery different lore.
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either way we know for sure that Arceus is the origin and the creator of everything. The beings that created space, time and antimatter all came from his heart along with the lake trio. This is stated very explicitly in the in-game dialogue. Arceus made everything and transcends everything in pokemon and that includes every emotion in pokemon as well (mespirit) which means that Arceus probably created evil as well. This means that it wouldn't make sense for Arceus to be one-shot by a thing that he himself is the origin of.
That is the point i wanna make.
That is the point i wanna make.
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I think you should ask calcs members for the former.
The latter I don't see any problem with it.
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The calcs were already accepted and the revisions i made were also accepted (they were based on the calcs)
Sniper670
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I couldn't wait around while someone used PMD to refute primary canon so I made the crt in sandbox anyway
https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-little-upgrade-or-huge-for-arceus.135240/
Thoughts?
https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-little-upgrade-or-huge-for-arceus.135240/
Thoughts?
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we can't see another person's sandbox bub
Sniper670
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Uhh, so how do I go about it then
Sniper670
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How does using something different = non canon? new information doesn't just mean its now non canon. Is the game non canon because in the anime, the plates look bigger and are different? Is the game non canon because we've never seen the legend plate?
Alright, prove that
Wtf is this headcanon?
Arceus did the first, and gave some power to Pokemon, not all. And Pokemon have evolved since then
Dude, there's an entire movie about Xerneas being the tree of life and in the games and manga, he is the tree of life as well
He has a separate key because of primal dialga, I just showed you where its accepted as canon
Why do you think the Tree of Life having new info makes the whole game non canon? is the anime non canon because the plates look and act different? We never seen Dialga and Palkia passively turn people to babies in the games, is that recent anime episode non canon?
You do realise Dark Matter embodies the negative emotion of Arceus' true form, right? Its never stated that he transcends the power of his own negative thoughts or anything
Its also possible for someone to create something and then get weaker than it over the years, like how Arceus made all of existence but there's a stone with the original spirit's power
Sniper670
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The Mainline games is the Main Canon yes. Pmd has some Canon elements, especially when it's supporting the things already mentioned in canon, but the plot lines are crap that don't relate to the main canon.
He's the embodiment of the multiverse, Dialga, Palkia and Giratina are mere extensions of itself. If it dies, they die, Distortion world gets destroyed, Space and time falls apart. Multiverse dies gg.
The heck. Maybe if you didn't live under a rock, you'd remember in PLA that we haven't seen Arcue True form yet. The Omnipresent one, not his avatars. His true form doesn't even exist in the multiverse
Wut?. "The powers of the Plates is shared amongst all Pokémon". If you saw any exceptions here, I'd like to know
There's nothing like tree of life. At least certainly not a tree that the entire planet depends on due to some trash reasons of a spinoff game
Primal Dialga doesn't exist. Since when will Dialga go mad because some time gears. Honestly the plot lines of most pmd games are pure garbage. Pmd is non canon to the main canon, outside of being canon to itself. It's used as supporting evidence at best.
They weren't doing so because there wasn't any Team Rocket using the Red Chain to force them to do so while fighting. At least try to pay attention when watching these series. That was the entire plot you just missed
This cracked me up. Let's go back to the mainline games shall we. I'd like you to show me Dark Matter. Yeah... Show me where it's stated Arceus Negative Emotions will create some Dark Matter.
Certainly, Arceus is weaker than the creation trio who maintain and create more and more universes, and actively maintain the Pokémon reality. He got weaker......Are you listening to yourself my dude. This guy just grasps for straws any chance he gets. At least Try to use a better argument than using FREAKING PMD to discredit Arceus. Show me Dark matter in the mainline game. I dare you to show me Dark Matter existing in the mainline Pokémon games canon
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Sniper670
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Pokemon's canon
vsbattles.fandom.com
This needs to be posted somewhere everyone can see tbh.
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Dark matter killing arceus? What kind of joke is this
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Why are the plot lines "crap that don't relate to the main canon"?
I think you forgot that Dark Matter was literally going to throw all of creation into the voidlands he made, and that Oblivion wing does erase things
Why does this even matter here? His true form is just his spirit, and Dark Matter erased it. Also, Dark Matter has the power of the tree of life which sustains all Pokemon in Super Mystery Dungeon, including Arceus' true form, because his true form is also a Pokemon
He shared the power from his plates among all the Pokemon in the early days of the Pokemon universe. Sharing power with someone doesn't mean you gave them all their power. Furthermore, its not impossible for Pokemon to just surpass him. Xerneas also shares power with Arceus and did it to bring him back anyways
There literally is dude, Xerneas is the opposite of Yveltal, who takes away all life in the planet and Xerneas and Yveltal balance life and death across the universe
What? Do you think Dialga having a different personality means its not canon? Arceus was willing to help people a lot in the manga and games, while he was trying to kill everyone in the movie, are they now both non canon? And Dialga would obviously go mad when people try to disrupt time
Team Galactic used the Red Chain on Dialga and Palkia in both the games and the anime
Show me where Arceus has plates that look like this in the games, or where he creates a jewel by combining his plates, or where he tries to destroy all humans in the game. In fact, show me where he's stated to be omnipresent and embody everything in the anime. And show me where its stated the Creation Trio are a part of him in the games or anime.
It is entirely possible for PMD to just have new info, it doesn't make it non canon, because if it did then the manga, games and anime should all be split
Where did I say Arceus was growing weaker? I just said other Pokemon can grow stronger. Why are you trying so hard to wank Arceus dude? Do you worship him IRL and think he's a real god too?
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The main canon is the mainline Pokémon games. Things like Dark Matter, the Bittercold, Time Gears, and such things do not exist in those, and Primal Dialga's existence directly contradicts the primary canon. Any other part of that entire media disagrees with the mainline Pokemon games, the mainline games wins out by being the primary canon.
Even if he wasn't non-canon, he was doing nothing of the sort. He was going to throw a single planet into the sun, to get its inhabitants into the voidlands. And Oblivion wing has never erased. What it does is:
1. Life drain
2. Petrification
3. Instant death
Nothing more, nothing less. And that's coming from someone whose favorite Legendary is Yveltal.
No. Arceus' true form is not his spirit, as he predates the concept of spirit, and is, according to Occam's Razor, incompatible with the concept as a result. His true form is his 'heart'. And Dark Matter did not erase the true form. In fact, there is absolutely no evidence Dark Matter ever interacted with the true form. He petrified an avatar.
It kind of does mean that you gave them all their power, when you created, and embody, the very concepts their power stem from. And because of this, yes, it is impossible for Pokemon to surpass him. If you want to beat Arceus with, for example, Flamethrower, your Flamethrower would have to transcend the concept of fire.
This is fair, but also irrelevant.
If Dialga doesn't want someone to mess with time, they can't mess with time. Unless they're Arceus, or maybe Giratina. Dialga has multiversal, conceptual time manipulation. If it ain't a God-tier, it ain't messing with that. And again, Time Gears DIRECTLY contradicts the PRIMARY CANON that confirms Dialga regulates time, simply by existing. And again, when something contradicts the primary canon, the primary canon wins out by default. So Time Gears are 100% not canon, and by extension, so is Primal Dialga.
Correct.
If the plates don't look like that in the game, then the Anime's design is non-canon. The existence of the Jewel of Life doesn't contradict the main canon, but it also isn't supported by the main canon. And his desire to destroy all humans is entirely non-canon. And it's stated in both DPPt and Legends, both of them mainline games and primary canon.
Correct, for the most part. Anything that disagrees with the cosmology as a whole, multiversal constants, and such, will be disregarded, when they come from dubiously-canon sources like Mystery Dungeon.
You're the one wanking here, my dude. Arguing that Pokemon can somehow surpass the very concepts that allow their powers to exist in the first place. Essentially, by arguing that Arceus isn't the most powerful thing in Pokémon (as it has been stated to be multiple times, both in the primary canon and by Word of God), you are arguing, for example, that a Machamp can, somehow, punch harder than a punch can be. Yemma isn't wanking. Yemma is accepting Arceus' role in the canon. The only evidence there is of Arceus being surpassable is that we know a non-serious avatar of Arceus, that is testing its opponent, can be defeated.
Sniper670
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"oh no, The time gears are getting stolen. I'm mad cos without the time gears I can't maintain time accross the world". Now show me Dark Matter in main canon. C'mon, I'm waiting. Accross manga, mainline games and Anime
Dark Matter exist ONLY, in pmd. There nothing like Void lands or Dark Matter in main canon, manga, anime. There's nothing about How hard is it to understand this my dude. You're trying so hard to use a spinoff game to discredit main canon. Utter nonsense I tell ya!
Lmao. You see this? Why does Arceus need tree of life. If Dark Matter erased it why didn't the multiverse go away along with him. Arceus exist Outside the multiverse, what does pmd have to do with him. Arcue is basically the embodiment of the multiverse. This guy trying so hard to piss me off
Oh GOD...... SOME POKÉMON CAN SURPASS ARCEUS. We learn something new every day. I'd like you to mention those Pokémon that surpasses him. Mew, from pmd? The player from pmd? Low 2C sceptile? Tell me
Lmao. They're not concepts. You see your problem? They're legendary Pokémon that can give and take life on earth, sorry lemme be specific, in a forest in Kalos region. Their deaths would be meaningless across the multiverse. Now you see the contradictions here?
Again. Dialga doesn't need the help of time gears to maintain time. Xerneas is not the concept of life. Sure, cos he can't maintain time when no time gears are around Dark Matter literally doesn't exist outside of a spinoff series
So what? The reason team rocket used the red chain was to make them revert Pokémon to eggs. I honestly don't know where you're getting at
The plates are still in the games, as they are in anime, and the manga. Games are the primary canon, so we take whatever said there before anything else. And from PLA we now Arceus True form is something we haven't seen so far. Dark Matter does not exist.... Like there's nothing that hints about some Mf who comes from arceus evil throughts, or whatever that crap storyline was. Not a single canonical material mentions it, it hasn't even been acknowledged outside of pmd.
It's not new info, stop using headcannon. It's been how many years now. I'd like to see even one thing PMD introduced that has been acknowledged in main series canon.
Alright. You're the the one using pmd to downplay him. I'm just here to prove you wrong
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Regarding PMD Dialga it's also worth noting that the time crisis is always referred as "the planet paralysis". Just like with the Tree of Life, PMD clearly limit the characters to the scope of the planet.
And even full powered PMD Dialga couldn't prevent your partner from disappearing; despite just not being how time work in Pkmn canon.
And even full powered PMD Dialga couldn't prevent your partner from disappearing; despite just not being how time work in Pkmn canon.
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Slight correction, but Dialga was in fact the one who fixed the partner being erased by the timeline changing. It just couldn't prevent everything else in that erased timeline from being disappearing, with Arceus itself hinted to having been the one who brought them all back, including the Dialga that went full mad.
I know this doesn't change your point, but I just had to point it out.
I know this doesn't change your point, but I just had to point it out.
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Was it? I clearly remembered Arceus' action being first noticed because he's the one who brought back your partner. Might've to check again
In any case, thanks for the correction.
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Arceus only helped in the Sceptile extra story
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Grovyle, not Sceptile
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Why does Dark Matter only appearing in PMD mean its non canon? Show me where manga only characters appear in the games lol
I just told you Dark matter was about to return all of creation to the void of its origin, so that was actually happening during PMD
Sure, people who know about the Original Spirit and have actually seen Arceus fight say that Eternatus is stronger
I posted a scan of Yveltal and Xerneas maintaining life and death throughout the universe at least, not just "some forest in Kalos". Please read the scans before replying
That is correct, he didn't need them in PMD either
It never happened in any other game or manga, I guess the manga is non canon then
Its stated to just be a parallel universe, and prove its not new info
The plates in the games look different from the plates in the anime and manga, so why do you use manga only feats for Arceus? How does Dark Matter not appearing outside of PMD mean its non canon? The manga has characters that never appeared in the game, and yet its considered canon
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Dialga also embodies time itself in PMD, so its not like he only affects just the planet. The planets paralysis was from the Temporal tower, not Dialga
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The manga and anime also have things that don't appear in the games, does that make them non canon too?
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They have proof of canonicity and no major lore difference; something PMD lacks.
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They embody it yes. It doesn't change the fact that their influence is super limited as shown through the entire game.
Also saying PMD Dialga doesn't need the Time Gears is cap. It's the game's plot
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The default assumption is that PMD should be canon even if not directly stated, since everything is canon in Pokemon in a shared multiverse. And PMD is just directly stated to be a parallel world to the main games, so thats a confirmation of it being canon
If you think time gears make it non canon because its "different", then you must be willing to take the anime as non canon because there are major lore stuff that's never appeared anywhere else, like Necrozma gaining its power from the prayers of Alola, tapu koko sustaining the existence of Z-Power and being able to restore it, or Arceus needing his plates to sustain his life in the anime but being able to give them out in the games, arceus creating the jewel of life in the anime but doing nothing similar in the games, the Red Chains being made purely from the Lake trio in legends arceus but utilising Arceus' power in the anime. And the most blatant one, Giratina being stated to have created the Distortion World in the games, but in the anime it was Arceus
Basically, new info or lore doesn't make something non canon to Pokemon, because the anime and manga has it but are still canon
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The things that are accepted as canon aren't accepted because "Lol multiverse", but because they're either from a first party source, confirmed canon by a first party source, or interacts with a first party source in a meaningful way. None of this is true for Mystery Dungeon, which is a third party source, that has never been acknowledged, or even referenced, by the rest of the media. By this wiki's standards, that means it is not canon.
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That's flat out wrong and the very reason why we had to make a new blog in the first place.
Since your entire premise is wrong, the other arguments don't need to be adressed too.
Although it should be noted that not only some stuff aren't contradiction (Tapu Koko n Necrozma); the same as in game (Arceus creating everything including Giratina aka Distorsion World) or just aren't the way you portray it (the Red Chain in DP anime used the Lake Trio, and it just means you can create them through other means as well).
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Wait, which CRT?
Sniper670
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Okay so, this is my first crt so Uhh, bear with me I guess...
The Distortion World
In Pokémon, there are two different intertwined worlds. The Pokémon reality, and the Distortion world. The Distortion world is a strange place where the laws of the Pokémon reality doesn't apply, and has distorted laws of cause and effect. A place where the world's logic doesn't apply. Describe by Cyrus as like a DNA strand, where one can't exist without the other and they keep each other in balance. Both of the oppositesWhich is what inspired Giratina's battle music. Opposing concepts. Life/death, Front/back.(source: https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/03/21/pokemon-creators-get-personal). Which means the Pokémon world in itself is a Duality.
Theres more. This also means the distortion world in itself is in a non existent state. Dialga and Palkia represent matter, The lake Trio represents Spirit, and Giratina represents the oppoitse. Which in simple terms means Nothingness. An anti world.A paradox of space and time As said by Masudas, the Distortion world exists but doesn't. We only think it exists because we're looking at it with our eyes. It's in a non existent place. Confirmed by Cyrus as lacking even the concept of Spirit. And the example Masuda used was the reflection of the mountain within a lake. Where we see the mountain within the lake alright, but it isnt really there.
A certain poem in PLA: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/CPokemon/pla-text/master/story/en.txt)
"The rift is born of disorder in the opposite world"
"The rules of time and space change within the opposite world"
"That which fills the opposite side of the world can shape the rage and mold it
So yeah, Giratina can mold the Distortion world into anyway he sees fit. He is the Distortion world after all. He has full authority over the place. Chooses what he wants to be there, and what shouldn't
Arceus Position Within the Multiverse
Now to Arceus. Arceus in this case, has been stated several times to be An All encompassing Deity who created the Multiverse. The Three Creation Trio are merely aspects of Arceus. These 3 being fundamental concepts that shape reality. Arceus himself existing In a realm beyond Space and Time( ここは じかんもくうかんもこえたわたしのうちゅう). One Heart that exists Beyond Time and Space. Arcues being the heart.
And from Masude, Arceus is A God Who Transcends All(すべてを超越した神). Note, this is coming from Masuda, the highest authority within the mainline Pokemon games from Gamefreak. So his words have very high validity. And its not contradicted by Arceus nature as the ruler of the multiverse. I know I'll hear the song and dance within the comment section referring to it as"flowery" and "hyperbole". But there's a difference between calling Captain America transcendent, and calling a actual Creator God transcendent over its creation. Still not enough? I did a little digging on what transcendence meant. Now let's crosscheck what we have of Arceus, and the meaning.
"In religion, transcendence refers to the aspect of God's nature and power which is wholly independent of the material universe, beyond all physical laws"
Now we have Arceus who exists beyond the multiverse. Being independent of it because his existence predates the Pokémon reality, which extends to the laws/concepts that apply to them. An omnipresent being for an added bonus due to being all-encompassing Deity. Even the name Arceus is what humans choose to call him, implying that his True name holds no equivalence in human tongue. With Arceus simply being the avatar of his true self. All this serves as supporting evidence for Masuda's statement of Arceus's transcendence
This would include not just space-time, but the very concepts of space and time. Together with the duality of Pokemon multiverse and the distortion world. Which extends to the causal nature of the pokemon world and acausal nature of the Distortion world. Including the very cycle of Life and Death
To back that up, Showing us just a glimpse of its power, it recreated Dialga, Palkia or Giratina (Depending on player choice). Dialga and Palkia being the very concepts of Space And Time that shape the multiverse. Arceus is referred to as the "Absolute Existence", highlighting his authority over creation.
Conclusion
Arceus should have Acausality type 5 for his transcendence(すべてを超越した神) over the the reality he created, and the laws within them. It's True self existing outside the multiverse entirely( ここは じかんもくうかんもこえたわたしのうちゅう). Transcendent on both the casuality system of the Pokémon reality and the Acausality system of the Distortion world
Arceus should have Tranduality type 2, for his transcendence of The Dual nature of the Pokémon world and The Distortion world
Arceus should have BDE 2 for transcending all things within his creation. An Absolute Existence, that exists independent of the multiverse entirely. Predating the very concepts of dimensions, Entirely
Arceus should have nep type 2 Apect type 1, 2, 3 for predating the concept of Spirit(Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf represent spirit. They wished it into being ) , Mind(Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf) and Giratina a conceptual being Paradoxical to The Pokémon world, Non-Existent in nature. and also for preceding existence, and both physical (Matter) and metaphysical (soul, mind) concepts of existence. Arceus himself being borne from chaos. Chaos here refers to the void that precedes creation of the universe. Which is more or less confirmed by the games
Note: All these apply to its true Form only
Giratina should have chaos Manipulation..... The Distortion world is a world of chaos, with no concept of directions or time. The logic of the Normal Pokémon world doesn't apply in the distortion world. The laws of reality doesn't apply there, common sense doesn't apply, which extends to the physics of the world. It's a place of disorder, where rules of time and space change Which Giratina can control as it likes
Giratina should have Acausality type 4(Remove the "possibly"). It operates on different laws than the Pokémon reality which extends to the causality system. It's Paradoxical nature means it operates of fundamentally different laws entirely. The world's logic don't apply there
Giratina should have nep type 1 for its nature as non existence. As it is the Distortion world itself
The Distortion World
In Pokémon, there are two different intertwined worlds. The Pokémon reality, and the Distortion world. The Distortion world is a strange place where the laws of the Pokémon reality doesn't apply, and has distorted laws of cause and effect. A place where the world's logic doesn't apply. Describe by Cyrus as like a DNA strand, where one can't exist without the other and they keep each other in balance. Both of the oppositesWhich is what inspired Giratina's battle music. Opposing concepts. Life/death, Front/back.(source: https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/03/21/pokemon-creators-get-personal). Which means the Pokémon world in itself is a Duality.
Theres more. This also means the distortion world in itself is in a non existent state. Dialga and Palkia represent matter, The lake Trio represents Spirit, and Giratina represents the oppoitse. Which in simple terms means Nothingness. An anti world.A paradox of space and time As said by Masudas, the Distortion world exists but doesn't. We only think it exists because we're looking at it with our eyes. It's in a non existent place. Confirmed by Cyrus as lacking even the concept of Spirit. And the example Masuda used was the reflection of the mountain within a lake. Where we see the mountain within the lake alright, but it isnt really there.
A certain poem in PLA: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/CPokemon/pla-text/master/story/en.txt)
"The rift is born of disorder in the opposite world"
"The rules of time and space change within the opposite world"
"That which fills the opposite side of the world can shape the rage and mold it
So yeah, Giratina can mold the Distortion world into anyway he sees fit. He is the Distortion world after all. He has full authority over the place. Chooses what he wants to be there, and what shouldn't
Arceus Position Within the Multiverse
Now to Arceus. Arceus in this case, has been stated several times to be An All encompassing Deity who created the Multiverse. The Three Creation Trio are merely aspects of Arceus. These 3 being fundamental concepts that shape reality. Arceus himself existing In a realm beyond Space and Time( ここは じかんもくうかんもこえたわたしのうちゅう). One Heart that exists Beyond Time and Space. Arcues being the heart.
And from Masude, Arceus is A God Who Transcends All(すべてを超越した神). Note, this is coming from Masuda, the highest authority within the mainline Pokemon games from Gamefreak. So his words have very high validity. And its not contradicted by Arceus nature as the ruler of the multiverse. I know I'll hear the song and dance within the comment section referring to it as"flowery" and "hyperbole". But there's a difference between calling Captain America transcendent, and calling a actual Creator God transcendent over its creation. Still not enough? I did a little digging on what transcendence meant. Now let's crosscheck what we have of Arceus, and the meaning.
"In religion, transcendence refers to the aspect of God's nature and power which is wholly independent of the material universe, beyond all physical laws"
Now we have Arceus who exists beyond the multiverse. Being independent of it because his existence predates the Pokémon reality, which extends to the laws/concepts that apply to them. An omnipresent being for an added bonus due to being all-encompassing Deity. Even the name Arceus is what humans choose to call him, implying that his True name holds no equivalence in human tongue. With Arceus simply being the avatar of his true self. All this serves as supporting evidence for Masuda's statement of Arceus's transcendence
This would include not just space-time, but the very concepts of space and time. Together with the duality of Pokemon multiverse and the distortion world. Which extends to the causal nature of the pokemon world and acausal nature of the Distortion world. Including the very cycle of Life and Death
To back that up, Showing us just a glimpse of its power, it recreated Dialga, Palkia or Giratina (Depending on player choice). Dialga and Palkia being the very concepts of Space And Time that shape the multiverse. Arceus is referred to as the "Absolute Existence", highlighting his authority over creation.
Conclusion
Arceus should have Acausality type 5 for his transcendence(すべてを超越した神) over the the reality he created, and the laws within them. It's True self existing outside the multiverse entirely( ここは じかんもくうかんもこえたわたしのうちゅう). Transcendent on both the casuality system of the Pokémon reality and the Acausality system of the Distortion world
Arceus should have Tranduality type 2, for his transcendence of The Dual nature of the Pokémon world and The Distortion world
Arceus should have BDE 2 for transcending all things within his creation. An Absolute Existence, that exists independent of the multiverse entirely. Predating the very concepts of dimensions, Entirely
Arceus should have nep type 2 Apect type 1, 2, 3 for predating the concept of Spirit(Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf represent spirit. They wished it into being ) , Mind(Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf) and Giratina a conceptual being Paradoxical to The Pokémon world, Non-Existent in nature. and also for preceding existence, and both physical (Matter) and metaphysical (soul, mind) concepts of existence. Arceus himself being borne from chaos. Chaos here refers to the void that precedes creation of the universe. Which is more or less confirmed by the games
Note: All these apply to its true Form only
Giratina should have chaos Manipulation..... The Distortion world is a world of chaos, with no concept of directions or time. The logic of the Normal Pokémon world doesn't apply in the distortion world. The laws of reality doesn't apply there, common sense doesn't apply, which extends to the physics of the world. It's a place of disorder, where rules of time and space change Which Giratina can control as it likes
Giratina should have Acausality type 4(Remove the "possibly"). It operates on different laws than the Pokémon reality which extends to the causality system. It's Paradoxical nature means it operates of fundamentally different laws entirely. The world's logic don't apply there
Giratina should have nep type 1 for its nature as non existence. As it is the Distortion world itself
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i think that'll only give him acausality type 4, type 5 is a bitch to get, not even i'm sure what is enough or not
will it be spiritual nonexistence as well?
since arceus will get it by upscaling, think we can use the vortex of chaos in the justif? makes me wonder if they will ever use the vortex for anything, sounds like a good place to create a enemy to fight true arceus since he came from itor a plot device for my meowth fic to make him OP
will it be spiritual nonexistence as well?
since arceus will get it by upscaling, think we can use the vortex of chaos in the justif? makes me wonder if they will ever use the vortex for anything, sounds like a good place to create a enemy to fight true arceus since he came from it
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
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Well, I kinda lost interest somewhere along the line and got lazy. I'll get to soon
