Pokemon 8-A tournament; round 8: Pikachu vs. Murkrow

[Imaginym]

that is true but murkrows aren't super hyper smart.

I think that's arguable. The profile at least says:
Intelligence: Should be relatively high, Murkrow are skilled in thievery and are known to form gangs, with Honchkrow as their leader
Plus, it should have the sense to avoid something that opened the fight by spamming electricity.
& what about Pikachu?

It would attack in close quarters eventually as it is something it always does

Always does? Even when alone?
Even despite what the Pokedex states about their standard tactics when being attacked/chased?

and so it'll get hit at point or another.

Prankster Roost can let it heal, & take less Electric damage during that time.

Pikachu's speed and double team can also deal with stuff like confuse ray.

Despite Priority meaning its a faster Confuse Ray than normal?
I mean, early on, Pikachu might not know to have put up Double Team/Agility.

Also don't forget. Even if sucker punch goes first in games it ain't gonna mean squat in a real fight where it'll simply be evaded or countered with another attack

Assuming Pikachu is fast enough at the time, which Tailwind could impede. Unless it's thought to use Thunder Wave at the time.
Also, in a lot of circumstances, I'd say the "just dodge" argument could apply for Murkrow.

But with Pikachu likely being in black smoke, confused, &/or being assaulted by frightful illusions, it may not know where to move to dodge or attack.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wouldn't Pikachu have a big advantage with super effective moves? Pikachu also have static for paralysis enducment, and also agility to boost speed and blitz Murkrow. And I'm pretty sure Pikachu can boost its attack or special attack in the game

 

[Imaginym]

Wouldn't Pikachu have a big advantage with super effective moves?

What I've argued is Pikachu would have a hard time knowing where to aim given Murkrow is trying to make it get lost & has tools to help with that.

Pikachu also have static for paralysis enducment,

Yeah, but physical damage may not be a lone Murkrow's options, since it's stated when attacked they try to lead their attacker to get lost in a forest or mountain. So stuff like Night Shade & Confuse Ray are more likely, or maybe even Air Cutter, especially since Murkrow probably wants to keep its distance from something it'll see leading with electricity.
(It also has a higher crit rate, which is relevant if it goes into close combat, moreso if it uses Air Cutter.)
& Prankster Roost can let it heal at a higher rate since it won't be weak to Electricity while doing so.
Murkrow can also put distance between them with Whirlwind if Pikachu gets too close.

and also agility to boost speed and blitz Murkrow. And I'm pretty sure Pikachu can boost its attack or special attack in the game

Prankster Haze says no to Agility & Double Team, & Murkrow can boost with Tailwind or Nasty Plot. Pikachu also has Nasty Plot, but again, Priority Haze, & that's if Pikachu isn't lost.

 

[Arceus0x]

Always does? Even when alone?
Even despite what the Pokedex states about their standard tactics when being attacked/chased?

then please show me examples of it doing the attacks and moves you just stated in the way that you said it

 

[Arceus0x]

doesn't seem to hesitate to get close and personal despite the apparent rowlet nearby

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

What I've argued is Pikachu would have a hard time knowing where to aim given Murkrow is trying to make it get lost & has tools to help with that.

Doesn't Pikachu have Discharge? Since that is an AoE attack
And Murkrow don't have a lot of options to play the range game unlike Pikachu.

Yeah, but physical damage may not be a lone Murkrow's options, since it's stated when attacked they try to lead their attacker to get lost in a forest or mountain. So stuff like Night Shade & Confuse Ray are more likely, or maybe even Air Cutter, especially since Murkrow probably wants to keep its distance from something it'll see leading with electricity.

Murkrow is alone here. All tactics it has while in its flock are irrelevant since they aren't with it

(It also has a higher crit rate, which is relevant if it goes into close combat, moreso if it uses Air Cutter.)
& Prankster Roost can let it heal at a higher rate since it won't be weak to Electricity while doing so.
Murkrow can also put distance between them with Whirlwind if Pikachu gets too close.

All of its flying moves will deal very little damage for Pikachu

Prankster Haze says no to Agility & Double Team, & Murkrow can boost with Tailwind or Nasty Plot. Pikachu also has Nasty Plot, but again, Priority Haze, & that's if Pikachu isn't lost.

Agility will make Pikachu blitz Murkrow and kill it with a super effective nasty plot boosted thunderbolt / discharge for aoe covrage

 

[Imaginym]

doesn't seem to hesitate to get close and personal despite the apparent rowlet nearby

In that case, it's to steal a shiny, something Murkrow are also noted as doing.

Emerald	Murkrow were feared as the alleged bearers of ill fortune. It shows strong interest in anything that sparkles. It will even try to steal rings from women.

then please show me examples of it doing the attacks and moves you just stated in the way that you said it

I suppose I lack evidence of it doing so, but from what I've read of it in canon, its strategy is leading the foe away to make them get lost, & it seems intelligent, so I assumed it would lead with moves that reasonably facilitate such a strategy.

Doesn't Pikachu have Discharge? Since that is an AoE attack

Yeah, it probably could do that.

And Murkrow don't have a lot of options to play the range game unlike Pikachu.

Night Shade, Air Cutter (50% Crit Rate via Super Luck.), Gust, but yes, it is limited.

Murkrow is alone here. All tactics it has while in its flock are irrelevant since they aren't with it

The tactics I mentioned aren't described as being used by a flock, are written as if for singular Murkrow.

Silver	It is said that when chased, it lures its attacker onto dark mountain trails where the foe will get lost.

Pearl	It appears near travelers to lure them into deep forests. It is said to carry misfortune.
Platinum	If spotted, it will lure an unwary person into chasing it, then lose the pursuer on mountain trails.

Those tactics are all written as behaviour for singular Murkrow; If it were a flock, it might more readily get physical.

Agility will make Pikachu blitz Murkrow and kill it with a super effective nasty plot boosted thunderbolt / discharge for aoe covrage

Haze will go before Pikachu's attack due to Prankster, as would Confuse Ray, & it could Whirlwind it to get Pikachu out of range.
If it does take damage, it can Roost.

Pikachu being described as using Electrical attacks when angered, threatened, wary, or encountering new things makes me skeptical how soon it'd Nasty Plot, but.... I will admit, though, it might not be certain for Murkrow that it'd notice if Pikachu's used Nasty Plot, since that's just a sinister idea (Though, Murkrow might recognize it.). If Haze's black smoke is present, it might have trouble seeing what Pikachu is doing. At which point, unless Murkrow tries Sucker Punch (& even then.) its number may be up.

I guess it might be reasonable that if Pikachu's preferred form of Electricity spam is Discharge, &/or it decides to go with Thunder Wave early on (Since the immobilization, even if unlikely, would tip the scales, IMHO.) it'd have a certain enough chance, since that might get around Murkrow's misdirecting.

 

[Arceus0x]

They'd both feel threatened by the rules of SBA

 

[Arceus0x]

Anyways don't forget that thundershock is not a joke. While whirlwind and gust haven't gone far beyond dozens or a hundrer or so meters, thundershock is miles in range due to being a lightning bolt.
If pikachu is out of range it may even be better for it as it could set up and use a devastating thundershock attack or more

 

[Imaginym]

They'd both feel threatened by the rules of SBA

I mean, I thought I'd been arguing under such an assumption; Hence me arguing under the assumption Murkrow is avoidant & trying to get Pikachu lost, & Pikachu spamming electricity.

Anyways don't forget that thundershock is not a joke. While whirlwind and gust haven't gone far beyond dozens or a hundrer or so meters, thundershock is miles in range due to being a lightning bolt.
If pikachu is out of range it may even be better for it as it could set up and use a devastating thundershock attack or more

If Pikachu is out of range, Murkrow could also set up. Besides healing, it has Nasty Plot, too.
(Also, in theory, while not so if out of range, Taunt or Torment might be problems depending on if Pikachu wants to set-up or spam, but Torment is only useful if Murkrow can reliably handle Pikachu's 2nd choice.)
Murkrow also SORT of has set-up, due to Screech via Egg Moves.

 

[Thebestsilver]

I think I'm going to vote for Pikachu based on its moves and various arguments I've read above, plus the Pokemon type chart.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I remember cleaning up the Murkrow page back in October just because I saw you guys were gonna use him in a matchup

Pikachu via electricity manipulation and paralysis

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Bump

 

[Kflare63]

Pikachu fra

 

[XXKINGXX69]

4 votes for pikachu

 

[Coolboy6]

Electric Rat FRA

 

[Kflare63]

Make it 5

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Thats 6 now

 

[StekFence]

Pikachu fra

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Ok that's grace and the end of the tournament

 

[Arceus0x]

Ok that's grace and the end of the tournament

No, bro, that's just the end of the first round. Now the second round begins with all the victorious people

 

[XXKINGXX69]

No, bro, that's just the end of the first round. Now the second round begins with all the victorious people

Do one for the fully evolved mons now. But ban Alakazam and Gengar

 

[Arceus0x]

Do one for the fully evolved mons now. But ban Alakazam and Gengar

No. I haven't finished this tourney

 

[Arceus0x]

Swablu vs. Pikachu is up