Pokemon 8-A tournament; round 8: Pikachu vs. Murkrow

[Arceus0x]

Round 8
Pikachu vs Murkrow!
Speed is equalized!
Fight!

Pikachu: 7
Murkrow:

 

[Imaginym]

Murkrow, seeing a Pikachu that it wants to defeat, & as it will soon learn, wants to defeat it, has pretty clear behaviour:

Silver	It is said that when chased, it lures its attacker onto dark mountain trails where the foe will get lost.

A lot of its entries are similar to this one, or are about it being seen as a symbol of bad luck, without much reason being given.

Shining Pearl	It appears near travelers to lure them into deep forests. It is said to carry misfortune.

With moves like Haze (Which creates black smoke.), & Night Shade (A frightful illusion.), it has means to help Pikachu lose track of it, as it prefers to do.

Although, I'm not sure if having the foe chase you so that they lose track of you is a valid win condition; They can't hurt you if they can't find you, but you did kinda just ditch them, right? SBA doesn't allow voluntary retreating.
But misdirection is valid, right?

If we account for Egg Moves, Confuse Ray, Perish Song, & Roost are other options. Tailwind might make itself more obvious than it prefers, but being faster, even temporarily, would be good. Prankster also makes it act faster with its Status moves.
Torment might seem useful, but Pikachu has too many Electric options for Murkrow restricting it to not using the same move twice in a row via Torment to be a worthwhile option for Murkrow.

Do we consider BFR via Whirlwind as an option? Although, Murkrow seems to prefer leading attackers, so unsure if it'd go with forcefully relocating them, especially via an Egg Move move.

& if it weren't clear how Pikachu act....

Crystal	When it is angered, it immediately discharges the energy stored in the pouches in its cheeks.
Ruby	Whenever PIKACHU comes across something new, it blasts it with a jolt of electricity. If you come across a blackened berry, it’s evidence that this POKéMON mistook the intensity of its charge.

FireRed	It has small electric sacs on both its cheeks. If threatened, it looses electric charges from the sacs.

In these circumstances specifically, I'd consider this information, too:

Shining Pearl	If it looses crackling power from the electric sacs on its cheeks, it is being wary.

Problematically for Murkrow, since a lot of its entries seem to mention it leading attackers into forests to get lost, there's this information about Pikachu....

SoulSilver	It raises its tail to check its surroundings. The tail is sometimes struck by lightning in this pose.

Ultra Sun	Its nature is to store up electricity. Forests where nests of Pikachu live are dangerous, since the trees are so often struck by lightning.

Murkrow might not know it needs to avoid any trees Pikachu might be near, but then again, maybe this only applies during stormy weather, or with more than 1 Pikachu. Still, it's a small, possibly negligible risk.


So yeah. Murkrow's strategy from the get go is almost certainly to try to make Pikachu get lost or lose track of it, or maybe force it away with Whirlwind. It should be reasonably good at this thanks to Prankster, & moves like Haze & Night Shade, & Egg Moves like Confuse Ray & maybe Perish Song & Roost, if they're in-character for it when trying to make its attacker get lost. Tailwind may also help with a temporary speed boost, but if it blows away Haze's black smoke or otherwise gaze away Murkrow's position, that'd be bad.

Pikachu's strategy is, if it's angered, seeing something new, wary or threatened, to release electricity; This situation probably calls for almost certainly all of them, & probably moreso if it can't see or it's confused or only seeing scary illusions.
So yeah, Pikachu is spamming Electricity for sure, even if it weren't against a Flying type; It's just Murkrow has the first move & wants Pikachu chasing it, not hitting it, or losing track of it &/or getting lost.

Unsure who's better in this situation; No matter how strong your electricity is, it doesn't help if you don't hit.

 

[Arceus0x]

well thundershock does more often than not come out in multiple directions so it could hit it

 

[Imaginym]

well thundershock does more often than not come out in multiple directions so it could hit it

It does?? Is that certain even ignoring Ash's exceptional Pikachu?
Also, even when this Pikachu may won't know where to aim? (Since Murkrow is probably trying to make that difficult.)

Also, weirdly, the profile claims Wild Murkrow get Double Team. It'd be useful & probably in-character. (Afterimage spam.) But, basis for this?

 

[Arceus0x]

It does?? Is that certain even ignoring Ash's exceptional Pikachu?
Also, even when this Pikachu may won't know where to aim? (Since Murkrow is probably trying to make that difficult.)

Also, weirdly, the profile claims Wild Murkrow get Double Team. It'd be useful & probably in-character. (Afterimage spam.) But, basis for this?

i mean i am basing on ash's pikachu in the early anime as it was a pretty basic mon back before all the hardcore training before brock's gym and it pretty much shot everything surrounding it

 

[Arceus0x]

either way it would take only 1-2 thundershocks to deal with a murkrow so it's all depending on whether or not the murkrow goes in for the close quarters combat.

There's also the fact that they violently attack their victims like how they do in sun and moon where they tried to beat the crap out of both nebby and the mc so they may also like to lead with violence in a case where they want the opponent dead.

 

[Imaginym]

either way it would take only 1-2 thundershocks to deal with a murkrow so it's all depending on whether or not the murkrow goes in for the close quarters combat.

Since their strategy seems to be lead attackers to mountains/forests to make them get lost, I think Murkrow would avoid close quarters combat, if anything.

There's also the fact that they violently attack their victims like how they do in sun and moon where they tried to beat the crap out of both nebby and the mc so they may also like to lead with violence in a case where they want the opponent dead.

Could be, but wasn't that a group of Murkrow rather than a singular Murkrow, so I'm unsure a lone one would be so gutsy, & it'd probably less so if it notices Pikachu firing off Electricity, as Pikachu will almost certainly do at the start of the match.

 

[Propellus]

Pikachu goes for the super effective move.

 

[Imaginym]

Pikachu goes for the super effective move.

Yes. It's a wild Pikachu, & not Ash's, but as I analyzed in the first post of this thread, Pikachu will use electricity if it's angry, threatened, encountering something new, or wary, at the least, so it almost certainly begins with it.
The problem is Murkrow has Prankster (So its Status Moves go first.) & its in-character strategy is trying to lead attackers to get lost, presumably so they lose track of it. So with stuff like Tailwind, Night Shade, Haze, & maybe also Confuse Ray, Perish Song, & Roost, (& also Double Team, if the profile is to be believed.), so Pikachu could certainly lose track of Murkrow early on; Using a super-effective move doesn't guarantee it'll hit if you don't know where to aim it, or can hardly tell where you are because you're in an illusion, confused, or enveloped in black smoke.

 

[Propellus]

Yes. It's a wild Pikachu, & not Ash's, but as I analyzed in the first post of this thread, Pikachu will use electricity if it's angry, threatened, encountering something new, or wary, at the least, so it almost certainly begins with it.
The problem is Murkrow has Prankster (So its Status Moves go first.) & its in-character strategy is trying to lead attackers to get lost, presumably so they lose track of it. So with stuff like Tailwind, Night Shade, Haze, & maybe also Confuse Ray, Perish Song, & Roost, (& also Double Team, if the profile is to be believed.), so Pikachu could certainly lose track of Murkrow early on; Using a super-effective move doesn't guarantee it'll hit if you don't know where to aim it, or can hardly tell where you are because you're in an illusion, confused, or enveloped in black smoke.

True, but the thing is, confusion doesn't always result into hitting yourself. And pikachu also has access to double team too. And if murkrow makes physical contact with it, it's going to get paralyzed due to it's Static ability. And pikachu will eventually hit the murkrow.

 

[Imaginym]

True, but the thing is, confusion doesn't always result into hitting yourself.

Yes, but that's not Murkrow's only means towards its main goal of Pikachu getting lost/losing track of Murkrow.

And pikachu also has access to double team too.

Yes, but if Pikachu uses it, Murkrow doesn't care as much; It wants to avoid attacks, & Murkrow has a better view from being in the air.
If Murkrow uses it, Pikachu doesn't know where Murkrow is now between illusions, confusion, haze & afterimages, so it won't know where to aim or even which way to move if Murkrow is trying to gain distance or hide in the scenery.

And if murkrow makes physical contact with it,

But it won't, in-character. Night Shade doesn't, nor do other moves like Gust or Air Cutter, & since Murkrow's in-character strategy is leading foes away & Pikachu is spamming electricity, Murkrow is going to be AVOIDING physical contact.

And pikachu will eventually hit the murkrow.

Eventually, but that'll take a while, & tax Pikachu's stamina even Murkrow somehow doesn't use any of its range.
& when it does get hit, Murkrow can use Roost, which it can do with priority thanks to Prankster, in addition to its other moves to provide it ways to hide while it heals.

(There's also the narrow possibility that Murkrow goes for Perish Song, an Egg Move, & the more plausible follow-up moves of stuff like Confuse Ray, Haze, Roost, etc. to lead into a draw.)

 

[Lou_change]

Roost gets rid of it's electric weakness.

 

[Propellus]

Yes, but that's not Murkrow's only means towards its main goal of Pikachu getting lost/losing track of Murkrow.

Yes, but if Pikachu uses it, Murkrow doesn't care as much; It wants to avoid attacks, & Murkrow has a better view from being in the air.
If Murkrow uses it, Pikachu doesn't know where Murkrow is now between illusions, confusion, haze & afterimages, so it won't know where to aim or even which way to move if Murkrow is trying to gain distance or hide in the scenery.

But it won't, in-character. Night Shade doesn't, nor do other moves like Gust or Air Cutter, & since Murkrow's in-character strategy is leading foes away & Pikachu is spamming electricity, Murkrow is going to be AVOIDING physical contact.

Eventually, but that'll take a while, & tax Pikachu's stamina even Murkrow somehow doesn't use any of its range.
& when it does get hit, Murkrow can use Roost, which it can do with priority thanks to Prankster, in addition to its other moves to provide it ways to hide while it heals.

(There's also the narrow possibility that Murkrow goes for Perish Song, an Egg Move, & the more plausible follow-up moves of stuff like Confuse Ray, Haze, Roost, etc. to lead into a draw.)

Murkrow is pretty frail on his special defensive part, the thunderbolt is going to do a lot of damage to it, thus it's eventually going to get paralyzed by it if it's just gonna keep on Roosting itself.

 

[Propellus]

Roost gets rid of it's electric weakness.

That only happens once after that.

 

[Lou_change]

It will help it not be forced to spam roost after the first electric move

 

[Imaginym]

Murkrow is pretty frail on his special defensive part, the thunderbolt is going to do a lot of damage to it, thus it's eventually going to get paralyzed by it if it's just gonna keep on Roosting itself.

If it hits. & a 10% Paralysis chance on a move that may not even hit that often due to the circumstances isn't exactly reliable.

That only happens once after that.

What?

It will help it not be forced to spam roost after the first electric move

Agreed on this part.

 

[Propellus]

What?

"User recovers half of it's max HP and loses it's Flying type temporarily."

 

[Imaginym]

"User recovers half of it's max HP and loses it's Flying type temporarily."

Ah yeah. Roost only loses the Flying type while its in use. Still, since Prankster lets Murkrow Roost faster than Pikachu can attack, & helps it not get as hard, it does help it outheal Pikachu's damage IF it's in a scenario Pikachu knows where to aim to hit it & is hitting consistently.
But fast healing in general is good, too.

 

[Lou_change]

Tailwind and super luck with also help the bird.

 

[Imaginym]

Tailwind and super luck with also help the bird.

Tailwind is helpful, though Super Luck is more of a minor benefit. Using something like Air Slash or Air Cutter might blow away Haze or the directionality of the wind might give away Murkrow's position, & Night Shade can't crit, & going into CQC seems both OoC AND like a huge risk for Murkrow.
In the newest games, +1 Crit is a 12.5% chance/1 in 8 (& in fact, +1 has been so every Gen except 1.), which isn't helped by these being unlikely, & +2 is 50%, but Murkrow only has +2 Crit Chance with Air Cutter, which, while it might not be that big a risk of blowing away Haze, is a resisted & maybe OoC move, even if it is nice range.

So Tailwind is nice to help Murkrow avoid & be able to put more pressure or such, but Super Luck, while beneficial, only seems slightly beneficial in how I expect it would go.

 

[Propellus]

Tailwind and super luck with also help the bird.

Wouldn't really save it for that long tbh, the thunderbolt will hit eventually.

 

[Propellus]

And it if it lands on a critical, it's gonna be a one shot

 

[Imaginym]

And it if it lands on a critical, it's gonna be a one shot

Yes, but by game mechanics, a Critical Hit with no boost is roughly a 1 in 24 chance of happening; You don't bank your ability to win on a not even 5% chance, especially when that Crit is even less likely with how often Murkrow won't be hit.
& if Murkrow does get hit, Priority Roost to heal & negate its weakness can help it get back into a survivable range.

Also, WOULD Whirlwind work as a win condition through just BFR-ing Pikachu?

 

[Propellus]

Yes, but by game mechanics, a Critical Hit with no boost is roughly a 1 in 24 chance of happening; You don't bank your ability to win on a not even 5% chance, especially when that Crit is even less likely with how often Murkrow won't be hit.
& if Murkrow does get hit, Priority Roost to heal & negate its weakness can help it get back into a survivable range.

Also, WOULD Whirlwind work as a win condition through just BFR-ing Pikachu?

And probably, since it's said that Whirlwind ends the fight.

 

[Lou_change]

Wouldn't really save it for that long tbh, the thunderbolt will hit eventually.

Roost we went over this.

So Tailwind is nice to help Murkrow avoid & be able to put more pressure or such, but Super Luck, while beneficial, only seems slightly beneficial in how I expect it would go.

As usual for when talking about pokemon you are correct but as it is a flying type fight an electric type everything helps.

Anyway from what I seen of fights with pikachu that aren't ash's they primary use more up close moves and while murkrow's Dex entries suggest a more ranged fighting style but light screen causes trouble.

 

[Lou_change]

And probably, since it's said that Whirlwind ends the fight.

Disagree it would add some distance but it shouldn't launch pikachu so far it can't relocate murkrow

 

[Imaginym]

Anyway from what I seen of fights with pikachu that aren't ash's they primary use more up close moves and while murkrow's Dex entries suggest a more ranged fighting style but light screen causes trouble.

But have you seen much of them using Light Screen? Also, were those physically attacking Pikachu trainers' Pokemon? Didn't they use Electricity, too?
& Night Shade & confusion damage wouldn't care about Light Screen, for what that's worth, but yes, Light Screen would be a problem for all of Murkrow's range.
If Murkrow is feeling gutsy (Doubtful.) it could try Faint Attack or Sucker Punch for ambush techniques, & maybe Screech (An Egg Move) for misleading.

(Also, if Pikachu only had 1 problematic Electric-type move it were spamming, Torment might help give Murkrow some breathing, especially since, according to game mechanics, it lasts indefinitely. But Torment might also have a risk of alerting Pikachu to where Murkrow is too much.)

 

[Lou_change]

But have you seen much of them using Light Screen? Also, were those physically attacking Pikachu trainers' Pokemon? Didn't they use Electricity, too?

Rarely but still an option it might use. I think and Yeah but it's normally just thunderbolt.

Night Shade & confusion damage wouldn't care about Light Screen, for what that's worth

Fair

 

[Lou_change]

Looking at murkrow's page it only has one special attack listed Night shade but on it's bulbapedia page includes gust and air cutter something else I want to mention is sky attack while it takes two turns it's high power, flinch rate and higher crit rate looks like one of it's better options.

 

[Imaginym]

Looking at murkrow's page it only has one special attack listed Night shade but on it's bulbapedia page includes gust and air cutter something else I want to mention is sky attack while it takes two turns it's high power, flinch rate and higher crit rate looks like one of it's better options.

Sky Attack is Resisted, & besides that, might be a terrible idea, since even if it can use it while moving, it makes the user glow, making it an easier to spot target for Pikachu. Plus, unless it's ranged, it has the risk of going into CQC.
It might hit hard, so maybe it'd be good as a finishing move, but that requires Murkrow correctly gauging Pikachu's Stamina OR getting the hit AND the 30% flinch, because if it doesn't finish Pikachu off, "God Bird" is a huge risk.

Bizarrely, while Sky Attack has been depicted as a ramming attack in some media (Like the manga.), it doesn't make Contact in gameplay, & some animations show it as sending a bird-shaped or wing-like thing at the foe.
So maybe it is Ranged, thus, less risky? Still, glowing charge-up....

 

[Lou_change]

Haze creates a good smokescreen.

 

[Imaginym]

Haze creates a good smokescreen.

I mean, I've advocated for this since the start of the match.

 

[Arceus0x]

Doesn't pikachu have agility

 

[Imaginym]

Doesn't pikachu have agility

Are we sure it's likely to use it in-character?
Also, boosting your Speed may not help it against an opponent that's trying to make you get lost (Given Murkrow's tools.), has Flight, & has Priority on its Status Moves anyway.

 

[Arceus0x]

Are we sure it's likely to use it in-character?
Also, boosting your Speed may not help it against an opponent that's trying to make you get lost (Given Murkrow's tools.), has Flight, & has Priority on its Status Moves anyway.

i mean why not? If it needs to evade stuff then it'll use agility and quick attack and if he gets to murkrow it would be a speedblitz and a few moves could get off static

 

[Arceus0x]

there's also thunderwave which has a very wide field of effect

 

[Imaginym]

i mean why not? If it needs to evade stuff then it'll use agility and quick attack and if he gets to murkrow it would be a speedblitz and a few moves could get off static

Priority Haze (Among other options.) says hello to Agility.
(I'm also unsure if Haze affects Tailwind, since isn't the typical kind of stat boost Haze removes. If it isn't removed, Murkrow would be faster.)

 

[Arceus0x]

Priority Haze (Among other options.) says hello to Agility.
(I'm also unsure if Haze affects Tailwind, since isn't the typical kind of stat boost Haze removes. If it isn't removed, Murkrow would be faster.)

unless it gets hit with a thunderwave. Also, quick attack still exists, it can still be a massive advantage for pikachu

 

[Imaginym]

unless it gets hit with a thunderwave. Also, quick attack still exists, it can still be a massive advantage for pikachu

In theory, yeah. But also Confuse Ray, Sucker Punch, Double Team according to the profile, Whirlwind....
I'd assume half the challenge for Pikachu is also just locating Murkrow.

 

[Arceus0x]

In theory, yeah. But also Confuse Ray, Sucker Punch, Double Team according to the profile, Whirlwind....
I'd assume half the challenge for Pikachu is also just locating Murkrow.

that is true but murkrows aren't super hyper smart. It would attack in close quarters eventually as it is something it always does and so it'll get hit at point or another. Pikachu's speed and double team can also deal with stuff like confuse ray.

Also don't forget. Even if sucker punch goes first in games it ain't gonna mean squat in a real fight where it'll simply be evaded or countered with another attack