PMMM AP and speed

[Kaltias]

AP for regular magical girls

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kaltias/Size_of_Elly's_labyrinth

So, i made this calc to quantify Elly's labyrinth and as a result, we now know that Sayaka stomped a baseline 7-C.Given that Sayaka pretty much slammed into the ground alongside Elly and was fine, her dura (0.5) should scale.

As a new scale i would propose:

0=Low 7-C

0.5-2 = 7-C

2.5-3 = At least 7-C

3.5 = At least 7-C, likely higher

4 = High 7-C

4.5 = Low 7-B (Based on Mami's feat)

The question is what we do with 0 (Homura, Oriko and weakest magical girls in general). Weaker, but not immensely (Homura did stunned Sayaka with a kick in Rebellion) so maybe Low 7-C?

Speed for regular magical girls
Talking about speed instead, i think that the ratings right now are a bit lowballed. We already have Homura (speed rating of 0) being Mach 619. That's over 60% of baseline MHS+ speed. Now, someone like Sayaka is easily faster than Homura (Blitzed her durinng Rebellion). Sayaka's rating is a 2. So, given that 2 is >>>>> Mach 619, wouldn't 2.5 and onwards be MHS+?

Top tiers revision
Now moving onwards to the top tiers. We know that Madoka becomes stronger with each timeline, correct? As we can see here (Where we can also see that Homura's forcefield is actually at most 5-C) she stomped Walpurgis Nacht during the first timeline where Homura decided to fight on her own (the fourth). We know due to WoG that Homura resetted the timeline 100 times (give or take) so, given that she becomes more powerful with each reset (look at her stats) i think that it's safe to assume that now she reached Low 5-B. For a similar reason, she should probably be "At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher", alongside everyone who scales.

Last thing, Kriemhild Gretchen has a statement of being able to destroy the world within 10 days. Normally i'd say that it's too vague, but considering that Gretchen is already Low 5-B via scaling, the statement could refer to the planet, so maybe "At least Low 5-B, possibly 5-B".

Proposed ratings for magical girls without official stats
Kirika as 7-C with "At least Low 7-C" dura (Via harming Mami, but i don't think that she tanked anything), Kazumi as "At least Low 7-C" (At least as strong as Homura) in her first key and 7-C in the second one (Stronger than before, should be stronger than Elly).

Suzune as "At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B" with "At least 7-C dura" (For basically the same reasoning as her current stats).

Oriko as Low 7-C (One of the weakest magical girls).

Nagisa as "At least Low 7-C" via being at least as strong as Homura.

Misc stuff
Now that we consider Homura's shield (And by extension the Isolation Zone) as a nonexistent timeline, this means that Homura and Madoka are fully omnipresent (don't think that existing in nonexistence is a requirement to be omnipresent). As you can see here, the shield links to the obsolete timeline (no longer part of the multiverse). And as you can see here,Kyubey possess a shard of the shield.

Another thing is that the witch that Kazumi defeated is compared to Walpurgis both by Kyubey and the databook of the manga. So, "At least 7-B, possibly 5-C/far higher" Kazumi?

There is also this calc placing Patricia at Low 7-B. Only Homura scales.

 

[SomebodyData]

I agree with the aforementioned changes

Now I wonder, since the Nightmare in Rebellion could manipulate the whole city, can we get a feat off that?

 

[Kaltias]

Probably, but we would need the exact size of Mitakihara.

 

[AguilaR101]

The scale looks fine.

MCB+ - Baseline Small town is fine whichever works, stunning imo isn't that good of a feat to warrant much scaling as Sayaka was pushed back but completely unharmed otherwise and Sayaka could have been holding back only attempting to prevent Homura from using her timestop rather than intending to attack and maim her, which she could have easily done when she stopped her shield the first time around.

I'm not sure about speed, the gap between tiers isn't clearly defined to be an specific amount of times over the other, we just know that a higher tier outmatches and someone 2 tiers above blitzes. The only thing that should change is the reasoning behind their speed ie: (Superior to Y, Could blitz X) or something among those lines.

I don't agree with 5-C Homura forcefields though, Walpurgis isn't implied to put that much effort into any of her attacks by that point.

I don't know about how to rate Madoka, the problem comes from the fact that every subsequent timeline hoop makes her exponentially stronger than the last so having her at one tier from one specific timeline seems arbitrary, probably establishing a range of power between two notable timelines is the better idea.

The statement is still too vague, 10 days is a lot of time and destroying something over a period of time can be acieved with much lower AP.

 

[SomebodyData]

In retrospect, the barrier surviving is probably an outlier.

As for the range of power what do you mean?

 

[Kaltias]

Agreed that it isn't good enough to scale, but i think that Low 7-C is better because if Homura was 7 times weaker she wouldn't have felt it at all.

Well yeah, for speed the idea was "Sayaka should be a super high end of MHS so people faster are likely MHS+".

She isn't implied to be casual either though, and it was full power Walpurgis.

Well, Walpurgis is more or less a seventh of Low 5-B, but she is more or less 0.1% of 5-B. If i had to guess, i'd say that she is probably there AP wise. And we don't really knoww which timeline other than the fact that it was the one where we saw that it was the timeline where se decided to save Madoka on her own.

It's actually more the combination of being >>>> Madoka who is an unknown degree of Low 5-B and the statement.

 

[Kaltias]

Also, i'd propose to rate Kirika as 7-C with "At least Low 7-C" dura (Via harming Mami, but i don't think that she tanked anything), Kazumi as "At least Low 7-C" (At least as strong as Homura) in her first key and 7-C in the second one (Stronger than before, should be stronger than Elly)

And Suzune as "At least 7-C, possibly Low 7-B" with "At least 7-C dura" (For basically the same reasoning as her current stats).

Oriko as Low 7-C.

 

[SomebodyData]

That works

 

[Kaltias]

What about magical girl Nagisa? She qualify for something above Low 7-C (excluding the tier 5 outlier) or not?

 

[SomebodyData]

Sadly no, not until we get an update on that

 

[Kaltias]

So she should be "At least Low 7-C" as well? Charlotte is a solid 7-C via killing Mami, dunno if she should have the "at least" though

 

[SomebodyData]

Yep

 

[Kaltias]

Actually maybe it's better if Charlotte is 7-C without the "at least", given that Mami should still be relatively near to baseline (dura obviously)

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

The scales looks fine.

About the speed thing, can't we just mutiplied the speed using Homu Mach 619 as baseline. You know, if a character have a stats 1, then she should have twice as fast as Homura.

This looks fine too, although Madoka could very well be at 5-B, condering the amount of resets Homu has done after the timeline where Madoka One-shot Walpurgis. But Low 5-B is acceptable.

This also fine too.

 

[Kaltias]

Well, they aren't linear for AP, so I don't think that we can consider them linear for speed. But they aren't exponential either so we can't simply use multipliers.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

understood. Who else is going to get buffed into Low 5-B? All I know are False Madoka and AoC. Also, Homu smite hax seems got slight upgraded too.

 

[Kaltias]

Queen Mami is the only one who comes to mind

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Wel, hopes Urobuchi would publish another spin-off....And perhaps it will involving Walpurgis before she became the witch we all knows.

 

[Kaltias]

Isn't Walpurgis a conglomerate of multiple witches? I think I read it somewhere (still curious about knowing how it came into existence though)

 

[Kaltias]

Also, now that we consider Homura's shield (And by extension the Isolation Zone) as a nonexistent timeline, this probably means that Homura and Madoka are fully omnipresent (don't think that existing in nonexistence is a requirement to be omnipresent).

I'm also updating the OP with all the stuff that i'm saying during the thread.

Another thing is that the witch that Kazumi defeated is compared to Walpurgis both by Kyubey and the databook of the manga. So, "At least 7-B, possibly 5-C/far higher" Kazumi?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I also found them not being Omnipresent is odd. Also, Good bye 8-B tier, you will be missed.

 

[Kaltias]

What about Kazumi (edited the comment)?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Well, if statement from databook and a character are the same that incapable of lying, then I'm okay with it.

Also, I still remember when this verse wasn't exactly formidable in everyone's eyes sans for Godoka and Akumura. We should thanks to Walpurgis and PMHT for bringing us some good feats.

 

[Kaltias]

This is how Madoka's profile was when I started visiting VSBW

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I remember when PMMM god tier had have 2-C rating and immeasurable speed. I also remember when Homu lost to Asriel but won Aainst Metraton.

Also, does CMG Homura doesn't have her time manip ability at first but she regained them afterward during the battle against AoC before losing them again, Shouldn't we create two seperate keys for CMG homura since I had tried to make a match using CMG Homu bit SD said she doesn't has her time manip ability.

 

[Kaltias]

K, but let's try to stay on topic

I'm neutral about this. The profile already says that she eventually regained them, so maybe we can simply leave to the OP the choice about giving her the abilities or not.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Okay.

 

[SomebodyData]

I see

 

[Kaltias]

I take that as "I agree with omnipresent god tiers, possibly 5-C Kazumi" or?

 

[SomebodyData]

Nah I just see

In all seriousness, yes I agree

 

[Kaltias]

Also technically 5-C Homura forcefield doesn't contradicts anything more than 7-B does

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Kal, perhaps you should highlights this so the other staff can see it. It's pretty big revision.

 

[Kaltias]

I don't know...

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Eh, why not?

 

[SomebodyData]

Given that we just had a PMMM revision thread, probably not the best idea to highlight again.

However, considering Madoka's speed is at stake here, maybe try asking around?

(I'm avoiding this thread like the plague, omnipresent Madoka and I have never worked well)

 

[Peter1129]

Everything here seems okay but is there anybody else that's replying or is it just us four.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@SD Does existing with nonexistence is really a requirement to be Omnipresent?

 

[SomebodyData]

Nope, it would make Madoka omnipresent throughout the multiverse.

(This is triggering my PTSD with trying to upgrade Madoka to Omnipresent, @Kal can you go on chat?)

 

[Kaltias]

Sure

 

[ALRF]

Just gonna say.

I agree with the upgrades (which includes the omnipresent Madoka too)