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Plot Manipulation Re-Introduction for the Maoh verse

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Ok yeah this scan here
The huge bookshelves that lined the ground all collapsed, and all the books that contained traces of the world were thrown into the air. One by one, the pages opened to reveal the traces of this world.
In the wilderness, the shadows of countless people began to appear. In the next moment, they were crushed by my first step, and perished without form.
The second step-- The books flying through the air were torn apart and countless pages were scattered.
Swarms of creatures appeared in the water, and birds and dragons appeared in the sky as shadows.
All traces of them were crushed by my feet, and all living things perished.
The third step-- The land shakes, and the countless scattered pages burst apart.
The canopy disappears, and the sky appears, revealing traces of the sun, stars, and moon.
Their shadows are crushed by my step and perish beyond the sky.
The fourth step-- More fragments of the scattered pages and traces dissipated.
The earth cracked into pieces, the lake dried up, and every plant and tree withered and perished.
The fifth step-- As if the traces of destruction were carved into the land, many bookshelves rise up again.
As if they were shaken, they shattered in an instant as if they were trampled.
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This just further cements my thoughts that the book is just linked to the world in some way as any damage to them just cause the world to fall apart. Nothing about this looks metafictional at all.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
This scan says that the world seems to be a play on a stage. Which means it isn't literally a stage, it is just being compared to one.

If my friends say I look like Dante from Devil May Cry, does that mean I am literally actually him? No, of course not. And the same logic applies here.
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Doesn't matter anymore. I dropped the scan again to that Translator. I will wait for his reply.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Ok yeah this scan here

This just further cements my thoughts that the book is just linked to the world in some way as any damage to them just cause the world to fall apart. Nothing about this looks metafictional at all.
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But it doens't make sense if that is just connection because Trace God literally binds Anos and instantly Uses EGA on him which should be impossible logically speaking. Not not mentioned the scans states when pages were indicating the Destruction pages = things stored inside of it not about things being stored in another place.

I don't know if this helps because this was stated in the artbook of Maou Gakuin that black boxes stores the parts of plot. I can send you the link of the twitter for illustration. Because the clear cut statement matches what happened in the anime.



Anyway I dropped the scan in the translator wall for script.
 
Theglassman12 said:
.
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Are you asking for R > F thing?

If not Either you consider books connecting another place or not what Graham did cannot be explained without plot manipulation. Causality Manipulation can't do things like making an large scale events like replacing one character with another and making something same event.

If you are asking for R > F i don't know. Many others said it's not necessary. But the Curtain thing does backs up the world being a Theater logically. I don't think Shuu is stupid enough to just drop words out of context especially it's not once many characters statements backs up play/script.

Also creating an event out of nowhere even before world was created which Eques did and he did by changing the order of the world. As for his statement for order being script. This is clear cut possible uses of plot manipulation type 1.
 
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@EldemadeDityjon Why would it be impossible? Literally nothing you've said remotely explains why it's impossible.

Literally the imgur link says it's the records of the past, not literal scripts/plotlines so this scan means nothing.

Since when the hell is that an assumption for what causality hax can or cannot do? Also literally that entire text states the world being destroyed because of the books being torn apart, that's just a link the books have to the world not causality hax, I didn't even bring up causality hax here.

R > F interaction is sort of a requirement given that's one of the showings of Plot hax in the first place.

If there's proof the scripts and stages exist as a literal form the characters interact with that change the setting of the story then it would be legit, but this isn't enough. Saying "all according to the script of the world" doesn't really cut it when nothing here shows any concrete evidence that plot hax exists.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon Why would it be impossible? Literally nothing you've said remotely explains why it's impossible.
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Because I already explained.

Ok I went to dread house and played some games
Then I replaced you in the place of me before. You are not me you have completely different personality. Why would you do what I did exactly the same way?

This is what I was saying What Graham did by changing the event was impossible from fate and Causality Manipulation.
Theglassman12 said:
Literally the imgur link says it's the records of the past, not literal scripts/plotlines so this scan means nothing.
Click to expand...
It states story though
It depicts a mysterious space with black boxes floating in it, in which fragments of the story are recorded above which Anos towers and, surrounded by, statues of all the races represented in the story: demons, humans, spirits, gods and dragonewts, which can, if you look closely, be seen in the background as hooded silhouettes."
Click to expand...
Theglassman12 said:
Since when the hell is that an assumption for what causality hax can or cannot do? Also literally that entire text states the world being destroyed because of the books being torn apart, that's just a link the books have to the world not causality hax, I didn't even bring up causality hax here.
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Ok let me go by your logic. Like you say Book is connected to somewhere but what would you call what Graham did ? Also he did that by manipulating the Frenzy God Authority.

Also as I said if it's connected to different place then text manipulation doesn't suite for this scenario because If it's not in the book then event actually happened without changing any texts. The event happened because of a Gods authority should give Meta Fictional Elements if i am correct isn't it ? Because the whole argument is Order is plot
Theglassman12 said:
R > F interaction is sort of a requirement given that's one of the showings of Plot hax in the first place.
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Well there is guy who can store people inside drawings i doubt that will help anything here 😓
Theglassman12 said:
If there's proof the scripts and stages exist as a literal form the characters interact with that change the setting of the story then it would be legit, but this isn't enough. Saying "all according to the script of the world" doesn't really cut it when nothing here shows any concrete evidence that plot hax exists.
Click to expand...
What about Eugola Raviaz Curtain thing ? It only happens when someone tries to change the events in the past.

Anime scans


Also i genuinely want to know why Eques creating a new event which wasn't existed to destroy the demon king garden doesn't work as plot manipulation type 1 uses. Because if we introduce Order as Script. He removed the order from demon king garden and replaced with a new order by doing that he created a predetermined fate which only induces one future event.

Isn't this clearly because of that the possible uses of type 1 Exists ? Otherwise that should be removed.
 
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Dread said:
Therefore, I declare my neutrality, however I won't blindly ignore the whole supporting evidence like many did because “Ya the original thread mention”, when obviously it did not.

And I agree fully with text manipulation, even @Theglassman12 agrees with it.
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I will be reading the whole volume for the sake of the thread and give my own opinion on this. Therefore, I am declaring officially to be neutral on this and hopes no conflict will occur here. I also want the thread to be opened once I finish reading the entire volume and check all possible feats and relevant information.
I will be writing the blog while I am reading.

I myself not sure about this and it sounds there are some context missing here. Likewise, I will use a light novel version. (both has no plot difference, but light novel is slightly better at explaining stuff)
 
Dread said:
I will be reading the whole volume for the sake of the thread
Click to expand...
So you have an official LN translation of the volume and we are just waiting on you for confirmation. I guess that's fine.
Dread said:
I also want the thread to be opened
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I don't know if I can really request this but I would also like this thread to not be closed until other staff members who are knowledgeable on the verse to give their input. Thanks in advance.
 
YoPercy said:
So you have an official LN translation of the volume and we are just waiting on you for confirmation. I guess that's fine.

I don't know if I can really request this but I would also like this thread to not be closed until other staff members who are knowledgeable on the verse to give their input. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
No one gonna close the thread 🤷why would they there are still arguments that are not clearly refuted.
 
Yeah you know i agree with this

I still dont get even in previous CRT, why they says the theater thing and script that control theater is just metaphor

I mean if just one god talk about the theater then it could be just metaphor, but in this there are more god that talk about it. Like nousgalia, even talking about that. It is not just dilfred statement. So the gods literally see the whole world as a theater

Unless you say nousgalia and dilfred had an appointment beforehand to use that metaphor. Which is stupid
 
Fixxed said:
Like why the author write about the theater again and again, if that just a metaphor
Click to expand...
Don't forget Eugola Raviaz coming and going is shown as Curtain is pulled to enter from one side to another. Anime clearly shows it him entering the world like that.

Also Eques Pre determined Fate Manipulation is technically First Possible uses of Plot Manipulation. He created a event to happen by writing something to Even before the Demon King Garden was born. If Eques states Order is script and rewrites it and creates a fate using that then it's still a feat for Plot Manipulation. Yeah it's limited to how he does Manipulates the plot but nonetheless the feat is clear cut statement for first possible uses. No speed , No Fate , no laws and no Concepts can save anyone when Eques uses that.

Also we have Graham replacing his existence with Aberneyu feat which should be logically impossible to explain. Unless I am missing some context.
 
@Starfeldway which means absolutely nothing on its own as there's never any showings of a literal script or a stage being shown controlling the entire setting or the roles the characters partake in a metafictional context.

@EldemadeDityjon That literally makes no sense whatsoever in the context of this argument, especially when framing Anos' mom's murderer with someone else can be done in a wide variety of ways, plot manipulation not being a clear cut example as you'd need evidence that was the case.

It states those are records of the past, none of them are literal scripts or stages that you're claiming in this thread.

You mean Graham destroying those books which resulted in the world being torn apart? This means absolutely nothing in terms of plot hax, and instead is just a link the book has to the world it records, nothing about this is plot hax as nothing metafictional is happening, and is just more DBH time scroll shenanigans.

That just sounds like immersion at best so yeah it ain't gonna help much here.

Changing the past which results in disrupting the flow of time is just classic timeline paradox explanation dude, that is not in anyway shape or form plot hax as nothing metafictional is happening here. Also why are you saying type 1 plot hax? There's no such thing as type 1 plot hax, and again more than half of your scans just mention fate is being warped, not the literal plot or the setting of the characters at all.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon That literally makes no sense whatsoever in the context of this argument, especially when framing Anos' mom's murderer with someone else can be done in a wide variety of ways, plot manipulation not being a clear cut example as you'd need evidence that was the case.

It states those are records of the past, none of them are literal scripts or stages that you're claiming in this thread.
Click to expand...
No one claiming about framing. I was talking about event Itself. Yeah there are many ways to frame someone but here he didn't framed it. He clearly messed up the event itself. How do you plan to explain that ?
Theglassman12 said:
You mean Graham destroying those books which resulted in the world being torn apart? This means absolutely nothing in terms of plot hax, and instead is just a link the book has to the world it records, nothing about this is plot hax as nothing metafictional is happening, and is just more DBH time scroll shenanigans.
Click to expand...
That was not Graham but Anos destroyed it. Also that doesn't explain things because no one in DBH Manipulated anything by changing books contents.
Theglassman12 said:
Changing the past which results in disrupting the flow of time is just classic timeline paradox explanation dude, that is not in anyway shape or form plot hax as nothing metafictional is happening here.
Click to expand...
That was not even my argument. Eugola Raviaz entering the world is stated to look like Curtain of the world being pulled apart. Here is the full video.


Past is already recognised as Past by Order of time * Every order makes up the whole stage thing not just time god. flow of time is refering to how it shouldn't be disrupted no matter what and how the story should be going.
Theglassman12 said:
Also why are you saying type 1 plot hax? There's no such thing as type 1 plot hax, and again more than half of your scans just mention fate is being warped, not the literal plot or the setting of the characters at all.
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I am not saying type 1 Plot hax i was saying it falls under possible uses of type 1. It's his limitations of how his plot manipulation works. He stated world is running according to script. If he can wrote something to the whole reality itself and make a thing happen what would you call it?. Of course it would have been just fate manipulation If it didn't involved words as Plot/Script.
 
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Theglassman12 said:
literal scripts
Click to expand...
You say the theater things and script is not literall and just metaphor, right?

Bruh the theater things is stated again and again by the author. Two different character talk about it
Fixxed said:
Yeah you know i agree with this

I still dont get even in previous CRT, why they says the theater thing and script that control theater is just metaphor

I mean if just one god talk about the theater then it could be just metaphor, but in this there are more god that talk about it. Like nousgalia, even talking about that. It is not just dilfred statement. So the gods literally see the whole world as a theater

Unless you say nousgalia and dilfred had an appointment beforehand to use that metaphor. Which is stupid
Click to expand...
And even the narrator talk about it. Yeah this is not even a metaphor, this is literall event in the verse. The narrator literally stated event that god appear as "cut the curtain"
EldemadeDityjon said:
Feats:
  • When Anos tried to Alter the Past not once twice it was stated as Cutting the curtain and moving to the other side. Also when Eugola Raviaz appeared from otherside of the world it was clearly mentioned as "Someone Cutting the Curtain open to come to this side "
　At that moment, the empty space in front of me was cut open. The edge of a silvery white blade could be seen. It was as if someone who had been hiding behind the space had cut the curtain in order to enter our side.
　I put my magical power into the Scythe of the Time God and controlled it with all my might. I swung it with a silvery white light and sliced through the magic circle of the <Time-traveling Levaron>.

The whole room turned into a silvery white world.
　As if the curtain of this world had been slashed, a rift formed in the space where the scythe had been wielded.

　As if the world were turned inside out and everything was going backwards, various landscapes, tinted in white and silver, passed before my eyes.
Click to expand...

Every feats is corresponding one after one, dont just take one feats and throw the other
 
YoPercy said:
Actually come to think of it you're right, al misfits should get immunity to plot if this is accepted including celis.
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I've said it before. The term "misfit" doesn't always refer to those like anos & graham. Celis might get it because it seems the voldigoad bloodline is a clan of misfits but this shouldn't apply to all.

Balzarondo is a misfit simply because his bow isn't accompanied by the chief god's order. Lay is a misfit in hyphoria because he can use evansmana which only the nobility should be able to use.
 
Theglassman12 said:
You mean Graham destroying those books which resulted in the world being torn apart? This means absolutely nothing in terms of plot hax, and instead is just a link the book has to the world it records, nothing about this is plot hax as nothing metafictional is happening, and is just more DBH time scroll shenanigans.
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I planned on remaining an observer but i can't continue to ignore this. Destroying the traces only destroys the past not the world but changing the traces actually changes past events
 
@Fixxed @EldemadeDityjon stop using the theater argument as valid and literal. I myself checked it and it is blatantly metaphoric. Unless remove this from the thread because it nowhere will lead to anything. The only thing you can argue for it is causality manipulation/fate manipulation through plot manipulation but I am still reading the volume.
 
Dread said:
@Fixxed @EldemadeDityjon stop using the theater argument as valid and literal. I myself checked it and it is blatantly metaphoric.
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No the Eugola Raviaz thing is clear cut narrative statement and even anime backs it up.
Dread said:
Unless remove this from the thread because it nowhere will lead to anything.
Click to expand...
EQUES statement is not metaphor. He clearly created a Predetermined event using Order Manipulation
Dread said:
The only thing you can argue for it is causality manipulation/fate manipulation through plot manipulation but I am still reading the volume.
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I have been saying this. Also Graham feat still not refuted by anyone.
I am not gonna brush it off
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
No the Eugola Raviaz thing is clear cut narrative statement and even anime backs it up.
Click to expand...
Spatial Manipulation?
EldemadeDityjon said:
EQUES statement is not metaphor. He clearly created a Predetermined event using Order Manipulation
Click to expand...
According to glass, it's still not enough to qualify as plot manipulation as there's no metafictional aspect to confirm eques using "script"= plot
EldemadeDityjon said:
I have been saying this. Also Graham feat still not refuted by anyone.
I am not gonna brush it off
Click to expand...
Trace god abilities are hard to qualify anywhere. One thing for sure is that just like eques has an ability beyond normal fate manipulation, affecting traces is beyond normal Time Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, reality warping
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Spatial Manipulation?
Click to expand...
Watch the video i linked & statement from narrative. Curtain is clearly mentioned.
Tatsumi504 said:
According to glass, it's still not enough to qualify as plot manipulation as there's no metafictional aspect to confirm eques using "script"= plot
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Dude that event itself is a aspect 🗿. He stated world is running according to script and created a predetermined fate.
Tatsumi504 said:
Trace god abilities are hard to qualify anywhere. One thing for sure is that just like eques has an ability beyond normal fate manipulation, affecting traces is beyond normal Time Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, reality warping
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I am talking about if you consider the whole script thing from Eques those books literally stores the Record of stories.
 
Dread said:
@Fixxed @EldemadeDityjon stop using the theater argument as valid and literal. I myself checked it and it is blatantly metaphoric. Unless remove this from the thread because it nowhere will lead to anything. The only thing you can argue for it is causality manipulation/fate manipulation through plot manipulation but I am still reading the volume.
Click to expand...
It will be metaphor if just that just stated one times. But bruh thats not make sense for author stated it again and again even use it in literall event, and says it just metaphor
 
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