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PHAT Metal Gear Rising Verse Upgrades (And some slight speed downgrades)

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Chariot190 said:
His AP downscales, but how much is unquantifiable.
it doesn't have to be baseline, but it's also not 1:1 with the calc. So something must be done to account for this.

"At most 7-B, 7-B with Ripper Mode".
At most not because his maximum is 7-B barely, but just that his base form's AP is at most below the calc might work.

Alternatively we could do like

"7-B, 7-B in Ripper Mode", and just explain why, though that might be a tad redundant given it's 7-B twice.

Alternatively again

"7-B (Downscales blah blah), higher with Ripper Mode (Calc value)"
Though this last one could be a tad misleading as the "higher" is just 7-B, but it's also technically not wrong.

You could be absolutely ******* insane and rate Ripper Mode first, and then make use of the barely used "lower" term.
"7-B in Ripper Mode, lower in base".

But you have to figure out something, because the calc must be linked in his AP section, and it has to be explained that Ripper Mode is stronger (Guide states in RM he does "far greater damage" and "can instantly kill weaker enemies"; Gameplay wise it's about a 7x increase funnily enough, but the number isn't stated so we don't use that), while rating both.
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I still don't see why it has to downscale. There is an entire section in Sam's fight where he fights and harms Raiden with only his fists. And we know Sam isn't the strongest wind of destruction member. Raiden also fights Armstrong, by far the most durable wind of destruction member, with his bare hands and manages to deal damage even in base.
 
I just roll with invisible Kaioken ripper mode headcanon during the Armstrong fight, it makes 0 narrative sense for Raiden to be holding back anything during that battle, but it really makes scaling difficult when ripper mode is only shown during the monsoon fight and never after that.
 
The wiki should replace tiers 10-C to 3-A with just the values the scale to, I have had unbelievably goofy moments of going through 8 different profiles to find a calc, and even had that lead me to useless calcs that are lower than the tier they have so I have ti search for 10 years
simply do “at most 7-B, higher with ripper mode”
bladewolf would be “at most 7-B (comparable to base Raiden who is this strong blah blah calc)” and that for the profiles, and for Armstrong’s dura section it’d be at least 7-B since he can tank ripper mode Raiden early in the fight
AguilaR202 said:
I just roll with invisible Kaioken ripper mode headcanon during the Armstrong fight, it makes 0 narrative sense for Raiden to be holding back anything during that battle, but it really makes scaling difficult when ripper mode is only shown during the monsoon fight and never after that.
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The only reason he was full ripper mode against Monsoon was because he went full ********* mode at Monsoon for trying play the mind games with him, on top of having been impaled with a sword
that fight is the only time we see Raiden able to have infinite energy (without the wig) and therefore infinite ripper mode
 
ZillertheBucko said:
simply do “at most 7-B, higher with ripper mode”
bladewolf would be “at most 7-B (comparable to base Raiden who is this strong blah blah calc)” and that for the profiles, and for Armstrong’s dura section it’d be at least 7-B since he can tank ripper mode Raiden early in the fight
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When the **** did we start doing this? Like 90% of the characters on this wiki scale to there own Durability or Attack just because. I could legit name 50 Characters rn that violate what were trying to propose in this thread. He's should just scale to his durability end of story.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
I still don't see why it has to downscale. There is an entire section in Sam's fight where he fights and harms Raiden with only his fists. And we know Sam isn't the strongest wind of destruction member.
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I don't know how to explain this to you.
Sam fight doesn't really matter, yeah he can harm Raiden, but he sure as **** ain't doing as much damage as the boxer. You can still hurt someone and downscale. I'm not saying base can't be 7-B, just that he can't be the exact calc value, because it's wrong.

Ripper Mode makes Raiden stronger, more powerful, and he does more damage. This is stated, shown and reflected in gameplay. You must account for this and explain as much on the profile.
Raiden also fights Armstrong, by far the most durable wind of destruction member, with his bare hands and manages to deal damage even in base.
Click to expand...
He literally doesn't, unless you think a stiff breeze is damage. Raiden punches Armstrong, literally hundreds of times, and took a few % of his health bar, before Armstrong smiles at him because it did actually nothing of note. This is not a good indication of scaling. In most verses, we'd actually use that as means to not scale.
And if you mean in round 2, I hope I don't have to explain why that ain't standard fair either.
It's because the wiki refused to accept that Raiden just gets stronger as the game progresses and he fights and instead went with phase 2 was done in Ripper Mode because his eyes were glowing red. I don't agree with this but that's what's accepted atm. So unfortunately, Raiden only ever did meaningful damage to Armstrong in RM. Honestly I think this is ******* stupid as shit and wish we didn't have to go with that but shrug.

Either way, you have to downscale Raiden's base from the feat, this isn't subjective, he is 100% weaker, Ripper Mode makes him stronger, feat was done in RM, how much weaker is up for debate, could be lot, could be just a bit.

Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
When the **** did we start doing this? Like 90% of the characters on this wiki scale to there own Durability or Attack just because. I could legit name 50 Characters rn that violate what were trying to propose in this thread. He's should just scale to his durability end of story.
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Forever actually, it's just people forget at most exists.
Honestly, I'd be fine with 7-B, 7-B in Ripper Mode, after all, I'm not saying he's baseline in base or whatever, just that factually speaking, Base =/= RM, even if only a bit, I'm just not sure how you'd word that without it looking redundant as ****.

ALSO, stonewalls exist.
 
Chariot190 said:
I don't know how to explain this to you.
Sam fight doesn't really matter, yeah he can harm Raiden, but he sure as **** ain't doing as much damage as the boxer. You can still hurt someone and downscale. I'm not saying base can't be 7-B, just that he can't be the exact calc value, because it's wrong.
Click to expand...
Nope, Sam's stronger attacks such as him ******* decking you with his arm can do more damage than the boxcar. Call this shit gameplay mechanics or whatever, It doesn't change the fact that Sam is still harming Raiden with his physical attacks
Chariot190 said:
Ripper Mode makes Raiden stronger, more powerful, and he does more damage. This is stated, shown and reflected in gameplay. You must account for this and explain as much on the profile.
Click to expand...
You know what it doesn't change? His durability
Chariot190 said:
He literally doesn't, unless you think a stiff breeze is damage. Raiden punches Armstrong, literally hundreds of times, and took a few % of his health bar. This is not a good indication of scaling. In most verses, we'd actually use that as means to not scale.
And if you mean in round 2, I hope I don't have to explain why that ain't standard fair either.
It's because the wiki refused to accept that Raiden just gets stronger as the game progresses and he fights and instead went with phase 2 was done in Ripper Mode because his eyes were glowing red. I don't agree with this but that's what's accepted atm. So unfortunately, Raiden only ever did meaningful damage to Armstrong in RM.
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing this. Armstrong's dura scales above everyone massively to the point that even ripper mode Raiden cant do jack shit without his swords. Even in the QTE's he's punching Armstrong's non hardened body parts to deal damage.

I'm not saying that Raiden isn't higher in ripper mode, He is, but ONLY in attack and speed NOT durability. Thus everyone who can Hurt Raiden in base OR in RM with Physical attacks(Like Sam) should scale to the full value
 
Chariot190 said:
His AP downscales, but how much is unquantifiable.
it doesn't have to be baseline, but it's also not 1:1 with the calc. So something must be done to account for this.

"At most 7-B, 7-B with Ripper Mode".
At most not because his maximum is 7-B barely, but just that his base form's AP is at most below the calc might work.

Alternatively we could do like

"7-B, 7-B in Ripper Mode", and just explain why, though that might be a tad redundant given it's 7-B twice.

Alternatively again

"7-B (Downscales blah blah), higher with Ripper Mode (Calc value)"
Though this last one could be a tad misleading as the "higher" is just 7-B, but it's also technically not wrong.

You could be absolutely ******* insane and rate Ripper Mode first, and then make use of the barely used "lower" term.
"7-B in Ripper Mode, lower in base".

But you have to figure out something, because the calc must be linked in his AP section, and it has to be explained that Ripper Mode is stronger (Guide states in RM he does "far greater damage" and "can instantly kill weaker enemies"; Gameplay wise it's about a 7x increase funnily enough, but the number isn't stated so we don't use that), while rating both.
Click to expand...
At most 7-B, higher with ripper mode is the best option imo
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Ill bitch about it later in another thread, I just wanna get the changes implemented
Click to expand...
i feel that tbh
Maybe we can bitch about the armstrong fiasco and get Raiden back his shit he rightfully deserves 😔 AD should have never been removed
also the answer is you can still hurt someone and still downscale
 
Unknownnah said:
Why did they nuke it :cry:
Click to expand...
Because his eyes glew red at the end and apparently funny anime robot who has AD even before MGR can't just get stronger because it doesn't make sense or something like that
even though MG is known for having shit that's supposed to happen just happen in gameplay, like how REX's stomp is an instant kill on Snake because lore, or like, uh, Raiden having scripted RM against monsoon
Ignore how you can go RM in the second fight anyway and do way the **** more damage than if you weren't
 
While were on the topic of minor changes shouldn't Armstrong scale to Raiden's fastest speed since he can catch BM+RM Raiden's sword mid swing?
 
Doc and Raiden both say he has him beat in speed, but yeah, a feat is a feat
at most
 
BTW, does anyone have the scan that ripper mode makes Raiden stronger? I think we should add it to the profile.
 
Unknownnah said:
in his beginning of MGRR body he's Sub Rel+ with 10x Blade Mode. Not sure how you'd word out 2x and 10x Blade Mode. Also Sam and Wolf need their Rel ratings as well
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with the multipliers. I'd like if someone posted the scans for them here.
 
I think multipliers are unneeded tbh xcanos calc is actually heavily lowballed from what I see, might be worth have a calc group member to look at it accounting for the fact Raiden is performing more than a single slash during the time dilation
 
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