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Part 1 Naruto AP Revisions

LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Naruto literally gets lethally damaged and only survives to be able to fight because Kyuubi Chakra, the same Kyuubi chakra that regenerated a lung without issue in seconds. Not only was the tail slap way weaker, barely not dying is not a way to scale.
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What fight is this in reference to?
 
Neji directly says he's "gonna have to come at him like he means to kill him" after Naruto gets up from the 64 hits, so that's a no for me.

Lee and Neji in general aren't convincing until the scaling is properly settled to say how far above or below they were.

Zabuza is just an outlier far as I care.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Uuuh... if the implication we have run with so far is that Lee needs gates to properly compare to Neji, why would it scale to his base?
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I believe its more so speed rather than power, I'd have to read the arc again to make sure.
 
I'm a bit on the fence, but Naruto having higher durability than his base AP makes sense to me.
 
I agree wi Naruto having higher durability than AP.

Anyways let's get back to the scaling.

This is an AP thread. Let's not talk about durability rn.
 
AstralKing7 said:
I agree wi Naruto having higher durability than AP.

Anyways let's get back to the scaling.

This is an AP thread. Let's not talk about durability rn.
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If I'm not mistaken, AP, durability, and Striking are all relevant to this thread.
 
This is why the thread is taking so long. I could have sworn the OP said AP.

For if you guys want to talk about durability it's fine then but just have scans.
 
@AstralKing7; as the others have said, Durability and Striking Strength tend to be affected by AP revisions.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
What was the reasoning behind Naruto's Durability being > his AP?
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Receiving blows from Zabuza, neji, and Orochimaru's snake as far as I remember.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
TheFinalOrder said:
What was the reasoning behind Naruto's Durability being > his AP?
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Receiving blows from Zabuza, neji, and Orochimaru's snake as far as I remember.
Click to expand...
  • Iirc, Naruto was never hit by Zabuza.
  • Orochimaru's Snake is faulty scaling.a He was hit and instantly sent into Kn0. We cannot qualify that feat as Legitimate for Base Naruto. Especially considering Orochimaru's Snake Summons Calced AP and Kurama's Chakra Healing. Naruto has been knocked out by less.


What's the specific reasoning behind Neji? Or is it just scaling from Gates Lee?
 
@FinalOrder;

Yea pretty sure it's Gates Lee. I probably agree with the snake part for the most part.

As for Zabuza I need to check because I'm not sure, I'm just going off of what Wrath of Itachi said.
 
Also, there was a month skip before thst part of th ed chunin exams. I know Naruto did summoning Training with Jiraiya but iirc it was implied he did training on his own as well. So him being stronger in that Neji fight doesn't mean his AP is lower than his Dura. I have to go reread that part.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Also, there was a month skip before thst part of th ed chunin exams. I know Naruto did summoning Training with Jiraiya but iirc it was implied he did training on his own as well. So him being stronger in that Neji fight doesn't mean his AP is lower than his Dura. I have to go reread that part.
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That's a fair point.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't say Naruto's Durability is > his AP based on Neji. Naruto was low diffed by a non serious Neji and we Know Neji was holding back against Base Naruto because Neji could match Healed Kurama Enhanced Naruto, whom unlike Base, he was serious against and that Naruto us much stronger than Base Naruto.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Yeah, I wouldn't say Naruto's Durability is > his AP based on Neji. Naruto was low diffed by a non serious Neji and we Know Neji was holding back against Base Naruto because Neji could match Healed Kurama Enhanced Naruto, whom unlike Base, he was serious against and that Naruto us much stronger than Base Naruto.
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Yea i just rewatched the fight and I agree.
 
Also, Gaara is cited as being able to defeat Jounin in CE but that's not stated nor shown in the Manga as far as I remember (Could be wrong). Can someone tell me where this comes from? Because CE Gaara has Mid-High Difficulty with Mid/High Chunin Level Characters.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Also, Gaara is cited as being able to defeat Jounin in CE but that's not stated nor shown in the Manga as far as I remember (Could be wrong). Can someone tell me where this comes from?
Click to expand...
My memory is somewhat hazy on this part, but i believe it had something to do with him being the strongest Shinobi in his village and its ultimate weapon (obviously because he is a jin, but they were convinced his base sand armor was unbreakable as well so there's that). This does not seem to be far off either since shortly after he became Kazekage.

also I don't think Lee is Chuunin lvl tbh (ik ik just hear me out). Just in base he was as fast if not a bit faster than post Training Sasuke, and he can AT LEAST get 5X faster than that via gates. and Gaara still defeated him without sustaining too many injuries, so he might be low level Jonin at least. Also Neji was above most of the genin by a significant margin, and required multiple Jonin to restrain at the end of his fight with Hinata, so there's that as well.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
TheFinalOrder said:
Also, Gaara is cited as being able to defeat Jounin in CE but that's not stated nor shown in the Manga as far as I remember (Could be wrong). Can someone tell me where this comes from?
Click to expand...
My memory is somewhat hazy on this part, but i believe it had something to do with him being the strongest Shinobi in his village and its ultimate weapon (obviously because he is a jin, but they were convinced his base sand armor was unbreakable as well so there's that). This does not seem to be far off either since shortly after he became Kazekage.
Click to expand...
Sand Ninja are Garbage I need to see these statements and implications if they're actually there. Gotta reread somemore :"(
 
@UchihaSlayer

The Neji thing was just theatrics. It does not take multiple Jounin to stop him (Neji can barely handle a Single S4 Member) and as for Gaara, even if its argued he didn't take much damage from Lee and Sasuke (Chidori not withstanding), they still gave him High Difficulty.
 
@TFO; Agreed, but keep in mind they only gave him trouble in terms of speed until Lee used the Gates and Sauce used Chidori. Regardless, I am fine with them not being scaled to Jonin tbh as it's a bit iffy anyway and a lot of holes could be poked in the notion. so yep, i agee.
 
Can someone tell me what is the discussion about Gaara is for? I don't agree with Jonin level Gaara at all. He is definitely around Chunin level for sure.

I don't really care ablut Naruto's durability being above his AP. This is an AP thread and we're scaling them to his AP not durability which actually would be circular reasoning if they are scaling to the AP that comes from NAruto himself which you want to scale to his durability.


Think we jsut need to drop this whole durability thing for Naruto. Causes too many inconsistencies.

Lee definitely gave Gaara more problems then Sasuke. Gaara literally only defeated Lee because of Lee himself couldn't sustain his form and gave Gaara a chance to use sand clown and evade the final attack

Even then the Sasuke that fought Gaara is different then the one who fought Lee and Zabuza. I do agree with WOI on having keys for Land of Waves arc Team 7
 
Gaara IS Jonin level. He is considered the strongest in the village after Rasa. He also stomped his uncle Yashamaru when he was 7 years old, and Yashamaru is an ANBU Jonin and a right hand man of the 4th Kazekage.
 
Metalija said:
Gaara IS Jonin level. He is considered the strongest in the village after Rasa. He also stomped his uncle Yashamaru when he was 7 years old, and Yashamaru is an ANBU Jonin and a right hand man of the 4th Kazekage.
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That's true, but scaling based on that would make most of the genin cast Jonin level which is a bit strange I guess.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Metalija said:
Gaara IS Jonin level. He is considered the strongest in the village after Rasa. He also stomped his uncle Yashamaru when he was 7 years old, and Yashamaru is an ANBU Jonin and a right hand man of the 4th Kazekage.
Click to expand...
That's true, but scaling based on that would make most of the genin cast Jonin level which is a bit strange I guess.
Click to expand...
True, but to be fair no one really scales to Gaara except for 5th gate Lee, Sasuke with chidori and Naruto with 2000 clones so its not that crazy.
 
That's true, but scaling based on that would make most of the genin cast Jonin level which is a bit strange I guess.
True, but to be fair no one really scales to Gaara except for 5th gate Lee, Sasuke with chidori and Naruto with 2000 clones so its not that crazy.

But those characters also scale to Neji and the sound 4. Though tbh it's not impossible for me to see these particular characters being that strong imo, it's probably won't be accepted unfortunately.
 
Maybe we shouldn't consider the average Jonin to be so strong? How powerful is Yashamaru anyway after all?
 
Metalija said:
Gaara IS Jonin level. He is considered the strongest in the village after Rasa. He also stomped his uncle Yashamaru when he was 7 years old, and Yashamaru is an ANBU Jonin and a right hand man of the 4th Kazekage.
Click to expand...
  • Yashamaru isn't a "Jonin", that's not confirmed and not all Anbu are Jonin and Gaara killing him was him letting it hsppen or massive PIS and outlier. It cannot be justified as a serious feat.
  • Where is it stated that Gaara is the 2nd strongest? It's definitely not his Base / Partial Transformation via feats. The only thing that could make him that level is him Psuedo Releasing Shukaku like he did against Naruto / Gamabunta.
 
He's like the strongest in the village after his father and he became Kazekage 3 years later, granted he probably didn't have a lot of competition cause I can't recall a Sand Shinobi that was unnaturally strong aside from maybe Lady Chiyo (Sasori and the 3rd Kazekage are way older shinobi that are either dead or not in the village anymore).
 
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