Paradise Lost Revisions (I NEED MORE POWER edition)

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Alright so firstly our PL profiles are incomplete as hell. So it needs a revamp. However do note some of this stuff comes from atwiki which is a wiki used by Masada and some are not in the VN itself. Another note is some notes are from the side stories which are not uploaded besides side story 1 so those parts are mostly from atwiki and the script to compensate (Such as masada and a side story noting Belial's flames can kill Muzan). Thirdly the scans are in Japanese but if the fan translations is done we can replace it so it will be easier for others to read.
Thx to QB for helping me with all this. Couldn't do it without you man.
Firstly: New Keys such as Lyle having 2 extra keys (EoS where he sublimates Nacht/Belial and Nacht himself)
Secondly: Anyone using Quintessence will get high 1-A via hax and said users will have high 1-A durability. This is due to how sin and mana are draw from higher dimensions as a byproduct of the throne and from Muzan himself. And those who are sin or mana users can only be damaged by said users (small note Sin > Mana most of the time) such as Lil being unable to damage Ast due to her being a Sin user.
Thirdly: Revamp powers and abilities and speed
These are the examples of what the profiles would become post-revisions
Lyle post revisions
Some extra text and Liliel post revisions
All the other profiles post revisions (Thx QB again)

Small additional notes because I cannot edit blog
意識を奪われ、拘束していたリルだがアストが対ベリアルの切り札としてリルの“式”を使おうとしたためマスターへ行くはずのコマンドが一リルを経由してしまったため執行者が覚醒、アストが使用しようとしていたガブリエルをライルに叩き込んでしまう。 (TL: Netsive Melakh is a trump card against Belial)
さらに現実世界だけでなく、精神世界でも使用可能。 宿主であるロト(ライル)が力量を上げた際、ナハトが精神世界で罪の洗礼と言わんばかりに使用しており、あちらでも腐炎の力はあまりにも強大で、当たってしまえば現実の身体まで想像を絶する苦痛に苛まれる。 それどころか、ぱっと見では全く無傷の現実の肉体に触れてしまった第三者にも少なからず腐炎の影響があり、熾天使のリリエルですら物理的に手が黒く爛れてしまうほど。 (the damage in the spiritual/inner mental world will translate into damage in the real world. To a 3rd party they assume the person doesn't take damage but in reality the fire is burning them physically as well (I also found the fire is invisible to most ppl)

For killing Muzan:

万物を腐滅させるメギドの炎。核兵器を無効化し、大陸を滅殺する力。正田氏によると神にも効くとの事だが、詳細は不明。(Atwiki)
それは呪い。この宇宙を形成した主をも滅ぼさんとする極大の呪詛。(side story)
ベリアルは地獄の底、ジュデッカより召喚された存在。死を司る地獄の魔王であり神をも殺すとされている。(atwiki)

Tiering in english?
Lyle: At least 9-A likely 8-C normally, High 1-A via Sin | At least High 6-A, likely at least 5-A High 1-A with Sin | At least High 6-A, likely at least 5-A High 1-A with Sin | High 1-A
Satanel: Unknown. High 1-A with Mana and Sin | High 1-A
Astaroth: At least High 6-A, likely at least 5-A High 1-A with Sin
Liliel: At least High 6-A, likely at least 5-A. High 1-A with Mana
Judas: At least 9-A likely 8-C | At least High 6-A, likely at least 5-A.High 1-A with Sin | High 1-A
Know: At least 9-B | At least 9-A likely 8-C higher with limiters off and Imitation Deathscythe

In french?

*speaks french*

In Morse Code?

*beep beep beep*


Tldr: All the profiles will get a revamp with High 1-A haxes and dura

Votes:

Agree: 10

Disagree:

NIGERUNDAYO (neutral):

Small part of CRT (does this may be redunctant)

Well I had a friend to ask for a lowball for some of the speeds which will only affect base lyle, judas and cybernation know's lowend speed:

戦車砲にも匹敵する僕の蹴りを都合三発。それぞれ延髄、頭頂、喉元に一ミリ秒の誤差もなく殆ど同時に叩き込まれ、黒衣の長身はボロ屑のように吹き飛んだ。ヤツにとっては、音も衝撃も一つにしか感じられなかったろう。(The text)

Basically know and lyle fought and lyle got some distance away only for know in that span would be able to hit Lyle 3 times in under a milisecond screenshot (striking the medulla oblongata, the top of the head and the throat, respectively, almost simultaneously with less than a millisecond's notice with kicks while closing in after Lyle jumped for some distance) (rough translation someone can correct me if i'm wrong obviously)

Some info for calc Know is 173cm, Lyle is 182cm
Here is the calc he made:
The average leg of a man is 44% of that. 1.73 m * (44/100) = 0.7612 m So assuming that he withdraws it completely then that distance would be around the average knee height which is 30.5 % of the height. 1.73 m * (30.5/100) = 0.52765 m Taking off 0.15 m for marging of error if he doesn't completely withdraws it. 0.52765 m - 0.15 m = 0.37765 m Moved that distance 5 times to attack and withdraws. 0.37765 m * 5 = 1.88825 m 1 milisecond = 0.001 secs 1.88825 m / 0.001 secs =1888.25 m/sec
That's assumming that he withdraws it, if someone says that he swings it or if he doesn't withdraws completely instead then the distance would be smaller, the stuff would be different. If he withdraws it then it means that for those three attacks in different parts of the body he needs to move 5 times the 0.37765 m distance; first to attack x, then to withdraw, then to attack y, then withdraws, then to attack z.
Also, if someone says that the guy only needed to withdraw from the targets to the front of the head then the distance would be around 12 cm for a 1.73 m guy 0.12 m * 5 = 0.6 m 1 milisecond = 0.001 secs 0.6 m / 0.001 secs =600 m/sec mach 1.749271137, which is Supersonic

So its just me wondering if the lowend should be hypersonic or supersonic. Personally I think its hypersonic because know did go supersonic with only 40% of his power and we have ast and him going at lightning speed already without his limiters off

Tldr need to check what is the lowend and hope i didn't F up with that small translation

Calc blog is here

Vote:

Hypersonic:

Supersonic:

 

[Warren_Valion]

Hopefully, this goes by quicker than my CRT, so I can get back to that one, and then never make another CRT ever again.

Anyway, about the CRT, I like and agree with the content obviously, we've talked about this for months in Discord conversations so you know I agree.


But I definitely think that your organization could be much better, mate.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

You didn't explain in Spanish so I don't agree >:v

But seriously, good job bro, I agree with this and I hope it goes without a hitch and hopefully the YT videos will keep coming out so people like me can get into it :'v

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Well not sure how my input works since I'm more of someone who revised but yeah, this is good as far as I know of what I and Redgrave can come up with.

Regardless of what comes out of this, what everyone should know is Paradise Lost needs to be updated badly. And as you can see from our draft revisions, the cleanup is VERY needed indeed.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Everything seems good to me, so I agree.

The PL profiles are finally getting their LONG over due update.

 

[Ionliosite]

About time ParaLost got some respect, agreed.

 

[Paul_Frank]

This all seems fine to me, agreed

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

so 6 so far. nice also @SleepyTBubble Wake up Alrfy you ppl need you also @EMS-TC02_Phantom

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like this has been mostly accepted by the knowledgeable members.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I'll just wait for some more input really from others just to make sure

 

[Rikimarox2]

My opinion doesn't mean much here, but I agree : p

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

So after reading through all of this (it's alot) and reading some of the replies here, I think I agree aswell.

 

[Eganergo]

Why is hax scale to dura though? Isn't the point of hax is to bypass dura?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Because the only way to damage a sin or mana user is an energy source similar to it. Sin users cannot be beaten unless they are using sin as well (lil is a weird exception due to netsiv being comparable to the megiddo). Ast even outright states Lil using mana couldn't do anything cuz she needs sin or smth similar to even hurt her

 

[Everything12]

Could it be a type of Invulnerability instead of Durability?

 

[Eganergo]

Tbh i still have doubt that using High 1A energy means High 1A hax, but whatever.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

the scan

what it says:
「天使が操る第五元素は、私に通用しませんよ。
この身を壊したければ、シンの塊をぶつけなさい」

translation: The fifth base element the angels control will not work. If you want to break this body, you have to smash sin into it (roughly)

Its more like nothing in the normal world unless its the energy on that level hits them

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Tbh i still have doubt that using High 1A energy means High 1A hax, but whatever.

The thing is the they are byproducts of the throne of Muzan and Mana is from the gates of heaven at the top of the sephiroth while the abyss is the reverse sephiroth so its just reverse mana in a way. Sin and Mana users are only physically comparable to or above the commanders but their hax and abilities are at that level. Megiddo is literally capable of killing Muzan so there is that

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

It's not really durability more so than it's an invul mechanism. None of the Principality, Virtue, nor Power that Nacht killed in drove are tier 1 when it comes to actual durability.

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.

 

[PsychoWarper]

It does seem more like Invul than straight physical Dura, just by the way its described tbh.

 

[Infera28]

I have same opinion as EMS. It looks lik Invul to me too.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I have never understood the difference between invulnerability and durability.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

ok so now we gotta know if its dura or invul. Though i did vaguely heard invul will be deleted but this is tricky. I went with dura due to how the angels do need to be affected by higher dimensional energy to not even get a scratch (I can give the example of belial covering his host in his flames to stop attacks). And tbf Nacht's sin is strong until it could just bypass all their dura (Can damage and beat out smth like uriel, michael or raphael in a straight up fight tbf.) But I guess I'll leave it to the others to help decide as this dura tbf is going to go to mostly ppl like everyone but know

@EMS-TC02_Phantom doe I am curious besides that what do you have to say about the tiering and profiles if you don't mind me asking

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I mean even if it was Invul, it would still be of High 1-A level methinks, due to the fact that the Angels and Anti-Angels can only be harmed by something that comes from the Sefirot/Abyss, or any source that rivals them.

If it had to come down to it, their dura can be tiered from their AP while noting that their nature with Quintessence makes them difficult to be harmed or killed.

@TISSG7Redgrave I'm down to letting what the others think at this point.

Edit: If Invulnerability getting deleted is true by any chance, that's gonna be awkward to work with that here...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I mean, we can let it as Invulnerability for the time being and worst case scenerio (invul gets deleted) we could probably add it still as "Blessed", in case we can't them im all in for Qliphoth proposition of having their dura scale to their ap with an explanation of their nature.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

blessed is suppose to be from other beings no? But while the sin bearers have a demon like beel and bel to host their sins fit them and thus were able to take the weight of the sin (edit: Especially belial as he would just burn everything and everyone but Lyle/Lot fit the bill of being his host and had to fight him in the mental world too). I can see it being more to invul or dura or even both really but again i'm not sure because the nature of sin and mana users is taking no damage unless anyone is on that level.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I proposed it as a "last resort" kind of thing and because they are beings that come from the throne shit (which makes me belive they scale in some way to the throne?) and their power is what the host basically use but I see your point. Still, lets go with invulnerability as it doesn't seems like it will be deleted immediately

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Hmmmmm I do agree invul could work but what that means for now we will just take the dura back to their normal tiers but they have invul (which i still don't 100% see difference but meh)?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

IMO its the safest bet, scale their dura to their AP and add the rest as invul but I'm not the expert here so lets wait for the others

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Well, I said if it comes down to it, then tiering their dura via their AP is fine but adding how their nature or connection to Quintessence (Mana and Sin) makes them hard to harm/kill like I said.

It wouldn't make any difference since you still need something similar to it to affect them, just written differently as pointed above.

I wanna see what others think of this and if things are done, we can get them the updates they need.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i'm fine with too as I said while I think both the dura and adding invul is fine i'm fine with whatever but yeah they can't get damage unless its mana or sin so rip

 

[PsychoWarper]

Technically speaking if the Invul has a specific tier from the base Dura it is to be listed in the Durability section like with Battler and the Endless Nine, so it would still be “High Outerversal level with Sin” in the Dura section it would just be made clear in the Powers and Abilities section that Sin grants Invul.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

ahhhh so everyone following this thread would it be fine to say:

Adding Invulnerability (insert reason)

Multi continental likely large planet normally (insert reason and scaling) High outerversal with sin (Sin or mana reason)

?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Quintessence, pretty much.

Mana for Angels, Sin for Anti-Angels.

But that sounds about right if nothing else.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm good with that

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

May I add smth too sorry for the sudden updates but maybe this thing only gonna apply to EoS Lyle as he like his base doesn't have his sin passively activated. But I believe host of nacht key should keep the high 1-A dura because ast noted nacht was no longer of this world when he took over Lyle. Judas probs can get the via sin in his base but yeah he's like lyle where he is no longer of this world in that form

scan

Edit again: Sorry but this is to explain beelzebub: 「実体を“あちら側”に置く彼らは、“こちら側”のいかなる法をもってしても打倒できない。最低でも、反逆地獄に匹敵する高次元の力でなければ」

It notes that beelzebub cannot be beaten by any law in the universe and it must be a higher dimensional energy source. (This is a mock battle of Beelzebub vs Raphael)

So while i think the base could have invul i think the ones that fully fuse with their demons like the hosts should have outright high outerversal dura with how they are no longer part of this world

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

No because it's still only an invulnerability gimmick. That lines literally alludes to that rather than it being a showcase of actual durability. Literally all Angels are this way and none of them are even remotely close to being tier 6 barring the Seraphim class, with most bottom ringers being above Kei level in powerlevel in term of actually workable benchmarks. You get pass their prerequisite of needing something as otherworldly and/or power originating from higher dimension to even affect them gimmick then their durability isn't even close to tier 5 outside of Masada's twitter post which is pretty out of place in Lot's case.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hmmm alright i guess we can stick to the original proposal with added noted by psycho. And Lot tbh had to kill judas using sin (which he used to two win). I also believed he talked about Lot after sublimiting Nacht in Lot's case not BoS. Though the other that people didn't tell whether they agree or not other than the invul is there any other problems?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Alright so since ppl seem only have problems with the invul (which will be updated) if anyone has more problems pls tell by sunday as it seemed most ppl agree with the ratings and abilities so we could apply after updating the proposal profiles a little.