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Overlord General Discussion Mk.IV

Does anyone know whether or not Nigel will release an edited version for the EE side-story on his site, like with the previous volumes?
 
I am rather sure we just count it as death manipulation like all of Ainz similar spells. You don't fall over dead in an instant from a crushed heart, plus it would be weird to tell me a specific death spell doesn't work on things without hearts.
 
Veteran adventurers and heroes reach into Building level, while the absolute strongest characters such as the Supreme Beings and Elder Dragon Lords scale to even higher City level Super-Tier Magic.

Would this work?

Or should we mention that people like Evileye should be far stronger, but lack feats?
 
With Ainz's new resistances we need to determine which matches need to be removed

Strahd won through Soul Manip iirc, so that's one
 
iirc a lot of Ainz's matches involve him killing through hax very quickly, with his durability never coming into question
 
Actually, Strahd's win can probably stay but you would need to ask Bambu. Ainz having resistance doesn't automatically mean Strahd can't bypass it.

It's best to clear it up before requesting it be taken down.
 
Also King Hassan might need to go as FDrybob pointed out in another thread

  • Ainz vs King Hassa seems like a stomp to me since Ainz no longer even has his AP advantage and has basically no way to win. TGOALID would theoretically work, but he'd never get enough time to use it. At the very least it needs to be reconsidered. Also, the thirty minutes of prep time for Ainz mean basically nothing since we don't know what kinds of specialized items, world items, or spells he has for that kind of situation.
 
Well I was asked on the mechanics of ainz death magic and how it directly affects someone without vectors. Like death, ainz says it/thinks it and his opponent drops dead.

This was the exact question

how does the "directly applied" aspect work? What is its "nature"? Spacehax, Lawhax, or even Reality-Warping hax? Or something else? Need to be more specific here.
 
...it's death magic, he casts it and death happens

We don't have to prove it doesn't have vectors I would think, he needs to prove it does
 
With the "low-balling" nature of this site, I don't think you'd get away with that sort of reasoning, @Apeironaxim

(I continue this here, since I might get more feedback from Overlord crowd)

I can think of 4 ways the "direct targeting" could work:

  1. It's not actually direct targeting but instead just magic that when cast, travels at infinite speed toward the target, which means any obstacles that block magic would be able to block it or reduce its potency.
  2. It's direct targeting via Spacehax. Ainz casts the spell and it "teleports" into the target. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Spacehax, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
  3. It's direct targeting via Lawhax. Ainz utilizes the Law of the Tier Magic System to affect the target directly and the Tier Magic System makes it happen. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Lawhax, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
  4. It's direct targeting via Reality Warping. Ainz warps reality itself so that his deathmagic hit his target directly. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Reality Warping, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
Among these I think 3, i.e. Lawhax, is the most likely candidate, since it's backed up by the most evidence.
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
What? Ainz's spells doesnt travel like vectors, unless proven otherwise
Just see his match against accelerator
Click to expand...
Yep, as I said before Neo, they need to prove they have vectors
 
NeoSuperior said:
With the "low-balling" nature of this site, I don't think you'd get away with that sort of reasoning, @Apeironaxim
(I continue this here, since I might get more feedback from Overlord crowd)

I can think of 4 ways the "direct targeting" could work:

  1. It's not actually direct targeting but instead just magic that when cast, travels at infinite speed toward the target, which means any obstacles that block magic would be able to block it or reduce its potency.
  2. It's direct targeting via Spacehax. Ainz casts the spell and it "teleports" into the target. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Spacehax, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
  3. It's direct targeting via Lawhax. Ainz utilizes the Law of the Tier Magic System to affect the target directly and the Tier Magic System makes it happen. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Lawhax, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
  4. It's direct targeting via Reality Warping. Ainz warps reality itself so that his deathmagic hit his target directly. Might possibly be blocked via Resistance to Reality Warping, but it depends on the specifics of the Resistance (i.e. case by case).
Among these I think 3, i.e. Lawhax, is the most likely candidate, since it's backed up by the most evidence.
Click to expand...
None of these have evidence to back them up, its all heavy speculation that you're trying to form in order to explain away death magic. Death manipulation is a thing on this site and its up to the opposition to prove that one can resist Overlord deathhax through other means besides 'do they have death manipulation resistance?'
 
It's magic; by definition it doesn't follow natural laws. You'd have to prove that it does have vectors first before speculating about what they could be. Until then, it is assumed to have no vectors since it appears to be so.
 
Vectors are literally just a quantity with a direction and a magnitude, I really hope you guys aren't gonna tell me we'll assume a fireball or a magically flying sword don't have vectors because "magic".

Likewise, I hope Neo isn't assuming an instantaneous effect that just suddenly happens, with no point of origin and direction is in anyway a vector. So no, the death spells that literally just make you drop dead possess no vectors.
 
No from the application methods I listed, the only one that has vectors for sure would be method 1 (which is the ultimate low-ball if none of the other could have been proven). Possibly the spacehax method 2 as well since it would still technically appear from "inside the target", but I am not entirely sure about this and it would still be able to ignore obstacles unless they got some sort of spatial-inteception trait. However methods 3 and 4, Lawhax and Reality Warping, would have no vectors (though might be still blocked with certain resistances).

And yes, while it's indeed Deathhax, it is ALSO Magic. And in some circumstances a character would still be able to block it due to that.

For example, what if Ainz fought someone with an ability like Seeker of Truth (The Gamer)'s Space Distortion Barrier?

  • Space Distortion Barrier: A bubble of space that is his (Literally, an ability that could teleport one anywhere in Korea failed as his space was not part of korea, or the rest of the world, but his and his only) that blocks anything not specified not to block, from light to kinetic energy. It is set so that light, sound and any other form of energy beyond a certain threshold is blocked/redirected away, and even things such as voodoo and power nullification get countered.
Now, ignoring The Seeker of Truth's actual profile and assuming Ainz's opponent in this case was someone who could use that Space Distortion Barrier but is still vulnerable to deathhax with no resistances to it, would the "instantanous effects" of deathspells just be able to ignore the barrier if the method of application for the deathspells is not specified other than somehow "directly affecting the target instantly"? I don't think it could. But if the method of the deathspells was specified, it might.

Also in the case of Accelerator, the reason deathspells worked on him was due it being Magic, not neccessarily due to being "vectorless", because Ainz is able to block teleportation, for example.
 
Guess mentioning here is more appropriate, but I think that part of Shalltear's profile should be:

"(Even the merest wound inflicted on her opponent ca cause the effect of instant death)"
 
By Occam's Razors you are entirely wrong though. There's literally no reason to ever even assume a magical effect that just 'happens' works in any of the ways you've explained, we'd need to assume more rather an assume less when there isn't even the smallest bit of info that would tangentially hint at any of your proposals.

So no, it still has no vectors. And no, it doesn't work and has nothing to do with your hypotheticals.

Using apple and oranges doesn't change anything about the vector fact. Any other way to potentially deal with his magic will be on a case by case basis.
 
Infinite sped I feel a better note would be

(The merest hit will cause the opponent to die if they do not have access to high teir healing or resistance) Cause it does seem to be any hit.
 
While she was half mad and being mindcontrolled she still managed to inflict a wound that killed the one trying to claim control of her mind. I think its safe to say shalltear doesn't need to activate it,

edit, asked about strahd doesn't seem the resistances are enough to change the result of his fight with ainz.
 
You gotta remember the sheer difference between Shalltear and the BS members that aren't Godkin. Not to mention she was boosted by her "coveted in blood" amp.
 
Umm, its not really about that, its the fact shalltear even while in that state still managed to apply her cursed wounds effect seemingly without activating a skill...

edit Im leaning on it being passive though possibly togglable. I actually don't see how it matters as sba assumes the combatants know they are in combat thus shalltear having the skill inactive is a bit moot.
 
The pen or the sword said:
Umm, its not really about that, its the fact shalltear even while in that state still managed to apply her cursed wounds effect seemingly without activating a skill...
edit Im leaning on it being passive though possibly togglable. I actually don't see how it matters as sba assumes the combatants know they are in combat thus shalltear having the skill inactive is a bit moot.
Click to expand...
Shalltear used a class skill to create a [Purifying Javelin]. It was a gigantic lance of the holy element, and despite her own evil alignment, it could still cause massive damage to her foes. The most important thing was that she could spend MP to imbue it with perfect accuracy and tracking ability.

Shalltear doesn't mention adding a curse to it, just that she could make it track, so it does seem like it's passive
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
By Occam's Razors you are entirely wrong though. There's literally no reason to ever even assume a magical effect that just 'happens' works in any of the ways you've explained, we'd need to assume more rather an assume less when there isn't even the smallest bit of info that would tangentially hint at any of your proposals.

So no, it still has no vectors. And no, it doesn't work and has nothing to do with your hypotheticals.

Using apple and oranges doesn't change anything about the vector fact. Any other way to potentially deal with his magic will be on a case by case basis.
Click to expand...
I didn't even argue about the vector aspect though and my main "most likely scenrio" also said that it's vector-less but OK, magic it is.

Then what about anti-magic forcefields? I am speaking about the kinds that are not %-damage-reduction-based, since that would be useless against Deathhax. General %-based against magic-power itself would still reduce the potency though which would help the target survive if they got Deathhax resistance that's too low. But if it's a forcefield that blocks not just absolute-value-based magic-damage, but actual absolute-value-based magic-power itself, it would nullify the Deathhax magic completely.

Now here is the question: Could a spell like Grasp Heart ignore such barriers/forcefields?
 
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