Overlord Discussion Mk.VI

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

For the simple reason that both abilities are about controlling undead, and if it doesn't:

1. What do you resist something like Undead Dominion with? Magic Resistance? Mind stuff that undead already resist? So we have two similar abilities that do the same (except turn undead can also hurt undead, so even better) but two different resistances?

2. So undead have souls but sucking the souls out of different creatures is how Cure got his undead?

3. If we assume some have and not all, why an ability that works only on the ones with soul? Ainz was worried about turn undead so its obviously effective even at his level, and he thought so doubly because Cure was controlling more undead than he himself ever had. Or we can assume it works on undead without souls but then is just Turn Undead but without the ability to hurt undead as well, so why...?

This just seems like flowery language, and that Undead Dominion is some sort of special made spell for higher undead like Ainz that command Necromancy but otherwise it isn't anything new in the control aspect. Even Rigrit has spells to control undead from her Necromancy.

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

I would actually say it is flowery language.
Turn undead, which Undead Dominion should fall under (in some level) affect every kind of undead, even the kind of Undead that Cure Elim used that were explicitly drained of their souls to become undead.

It could be either or honestly, I just believe flowery more.

So you are blatantly and intentionally ignore the fact that soul manipulation and destruction is a regular thing in Overlord?


Jeez, you and Infinite do hate Overlord don't you?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Pardon me but, could you ******* not?

I am not in the mood for such blatant bait when I literally mention Cure, the dude that did the soul destruction, and his sucking of souls to make his undead. If you didn't read my comment, don't waste time responding to it.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Doesn't that spell work on the low level souless undead?

 

[InfiniteSped]

And, damn, they caught you too, Lancelot? Guess the SAO invasion has failed.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Undead Dominion or Turn Undead?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Hmm, pretty sure Cure wasn't using any Yggdrasil spell or skill to control his undead or if it's smart/powerful enough to modify or create a new spell I don't see why he wouldn't already have a repertoire of hax. I could be misremembering but I remember Ainz attributing the case as his undead to control because he had created them (cure).

 

[Apeironaxim]

Can someone remind me where Turn Undead is used?

 

[Ugarik]

By Roberdyck I think

 

[Apeironaxim]

I might be missing something, but Turn Undead doesn't control undead like Undead Domination does, so why are they being compared?

 

[InfiniteSped]

When the Floor Imitators who glued their victims to the ground attacked in tandem with flying undead, Roberdyck destroyed them one after the other with his ability to turn undead

From what I can tell, Turn Undead just exorcises them, while Undead Domination controls them, so pretty different.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Although, since Undead Domination can be used on souless undead, the soul part might just be flowery language.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Or it controls the mind always, and also controls the soul if they have one

But I feel like that might be too much guessing, and Occam's Razor would just have us say the soul part is flowery language

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Everyone, just watch the fight between Cure and Ainz again, when Ainz acts like a mook and gets absorbed into Xure's body. He frantically and continuously mentions his Turn Undead resistance because the number of undead Cure controls is way above his, which makes him fearful he could get controlled. The fact Ainz even has such a high level Turn Undead Resistance also means it is useful all the way to 100.

And turn undead from the start is a paladin thing in D&D. Good Paladins exorcise and hurt undead with it, while evil or dark paladin use it to take control of any undead of a certain level. You can just look for the spell in the Pathfinder website and you'll get the idea.

 

[Apeironaxim]

I did CTRL F with "turn undead" on the Side Story and there were no results

I'll look a little more deeply into it i guess

 

[Apeironaxim]

The undead domination effect which he was most wary of did not take place. Of course, he had never once lowered his Turn Resistance III in order to protect against it. It would seem he would not be controlled just by being pulled into it.
In that case, it would seem the undead domination only happened to the Zombies raised by its own power.

ok, I see Turn Resistance, but he consistently mentions an undead domination effect

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

"It'll hurt my butt and thighs, so I'll pass, if you don't mind!" the priest said as he ignored the Captain's reply of, "But you have healing magic," and stared at Suzuki Satoru. "Very well, I shall do what I was called here to do. Turn unde—"

"No, those people claim to be Oldbones. They don't seem to be undead."


"ÒÇîDetect UndeadÒÇì — I see. Indeed, he is not undead, Captain-dono, being that there was no reaction to it. Also — yeeart!"

The priest raised his hand. Suzuki felt a strange force pushing on him. It was probably some kind of undead-destroying ability. However, it was completely ineffective on Suzuki Satoru and Keno. While the difference in their levels was part of it, the main reason was thanks to their magic items.


"If there were a way to do it, then surely it would be an assembly of high-level priests turning undead at the same time, right?"

"I see…"

That would have disintegrated the Zombies, and it would explain their absence. However, there was a limit to how many times one could turn undead each day, and low-level priests could not use that ability often. Therefore, it would probably be impossible to annihilate a swirling horde of 400,000

Zombies without committing sizable numbers to the task.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

It seems to be destroying undead rather than controlling them. Dark paladins don't exist in the story but there is cursed knight that Shalltear and leinas have (most people don't remember her). It's a corrupter/cursed cleric class and as we know clerics, paladins and priests fall under the same roof.

Also Shalltear used [Animate Dead] in volume 3 that I always thought it was weird and now that you mention the possibility of a holy corrupted centered class summoning/controlling undead, it could be this class since summoning vampires would be her one and only ability towards summoning undead because of her race so the zombie seems out of place.

 

[InfiniteSped]

http://overlordvolume10.blogspot.com/2019/08/no-more-overlord.html

I hadn't seen this.

RIP

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Why

 

[InfiniteSped]

Maybe Sky can pick it up again

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Again, Turn Undead does both. Good clerics use it to channel positive energy and inflict damage on undead - evil or dark clerics dominate undead instead, using them for their own means. It was my bad fo say paladins use it when it's clerics.

www.d20pfsrd.com Look for Turn Undead.

And see the wording. Ainz directly references his TURN RESISTANCE while thinking he should be okay from Cure's Undead Dominion effect.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

http://overlordvolume10.blogspot.com/2019/08/no-more-overlord.html

I hadn't seen this.

RIP

What volume was this?

 

[Apeironaxim]

Again, Turn Undead does both. Good clerics use it to channel positive energy and inflict damage on undead - evil or dark clerics dominate undead instead, using them for their own means. It was my bad fo say paladins use it when it's clerics.
www.d20pfsrd.com Look for Turn Undead.

And see the wording. Ainz directly references his TURN RESISTANCE while thinking he should be okay from Cure's Undead Dominion effect.

Does Overlord confirm it works the exact same as DnD?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It takes very close inspiration in a lot of things, and most of the time is doesn't deviate. Personally, I would say to assume it is the same until the opposite is hinted or shown. The fact he's trusting his resistance against a technique that can control undead while being afraid of being controlled, I see no reasons to assume it isn't the same thing.

 

[Apeironaxim]

For the simple reason that both abilities are about controlling undead, and if it doesn't:
1. What do you resist something like Undead Dominion with? Magic Resistance? Mind stuff that undead already resist? So we have two similar abilities that do the same (except turn undead can also hurt undead, so even better) but two different resistances?

2. So undead have souls but sucking the souls out of different creatures is how Cure got his undead?

3. If we assume some have and not all, why an ability that works only on the ones with soul? Ainz was worried about turn undead so its obviously effective even at his level, and he thought so doubly because Cure was controlling more undead than he himself ever had. Or we can assume it works on undead without souls but then is just Turn Undead but without the ability to hurt undead as well, so why...?

This just seems like flowery language, and that Undead Dominion is some sort of special made spell for higher undead like Ainz that command Necromancy but otherwise it isn't anything new in the control aspect. Even Rigrit has spells to control undead from her Necromancy.

1. Pretty sure it only works on undead weaker than the user, so you resist it by being stronger/a higher level

2. Intelligent undead have souls iirc, so things like basic skeletons and zombies don't have souls. Evileye is stated that if she releases her Talent which is holding onto souls, the souls would release and she would become a mindless undead

3. It could just be the case that it's a stronger version of Turn Undead, which tends to happen in RPGs and MMOs iirc, a similar spell to another one can be learned but that one is higher leveld and requires better resistances. Could also be Undead Domination always at least controls the mind, but can control the soul if they have one. Though like I stated earlier, that seems like too much guessing, with Occam's Razor telling us just to say it's flowery language.

Thanks for your input, i too thought it was most likely flowery language, but I wanted input from others

After all, ya never know what could happen

 

[FDrybob]

I agree with LSirLancelotDuLacl. There's little reason to assume it actually controls souls.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Tis a sad day. The question isn't who'll pick it up, more like how will the translation change since 100% someone will pick it. The new manga chapter was done by Youjo Senki translator, well it should be as I've never seen that name anywhere else. Who knows he might take over. Also sky won't translate as they drop things as soon as Yen Press license it.



Turn undead is pretty clearly shown to be destroy undead, I did point out how a cursed knight or what you've said, an evil/dark cleric being able to dominate undead. Well the latter doesn't exist unless you count cursed knight, point is since you're basing your assumption on DnD, I did not shoot it down but pointed at the possibility within verse.

 

[Apeironaxim]

What was it someone brought up?

That there was someone out there who believed each of the Floors were a universe

And Ainz could destroy them all

therfor making him 2-C?

I swear someone brought that up before

I literally can't imagine the mental gymnastics required

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I'm willing to bet money they missed the part where the sky in each floor is a ceiling made to look like the sky.

IF THERE'S. SKY, TOTALLY MUST BE DIFFERENT UNIVERSES

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

I'm willing to bet money they missed the part where the sky in each floor is a ceiling made to look like the sky.
IF THERE'S. SKY, TOTALLY MUST BE DIFFERENT UNIVERSES

Haha so funny......my sides are hurting. Never thought you could think of something worse but you did lol

 

[InfiniteSped]

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...own-d-aeroflame-z-vs-galactus-streak-1991489/

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I mean, it's not the most nonsensical thing in the world, since it's more from the World Dragon, which is more of a outlier

 

[InfiniteSped]

I did manage to convince him on Discord that Ainz isn't multiversal with infine speed.

 

[InfiniteSped]

He was still arguing that Buu Saga Goku has infinite speed though, so . . .

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

It's a fake star (sixth floor) in web novel, I guess it should be the same for the light novel.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The guardians made new floors and remade the entirety of the Dungeon after winning it over, including the details of the sky and such.

Unless anyone honestly believes any Guild ANYWHERE in Yggdrasil could make infinite spaces without abusing something like Ouroboros or Five Elements Overcoming.

The world dragon thing, on the other side, is just straight up dumb.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

World Dragon isn't that bad of a point

 

[InfiniteSped]

Best argument there is that Sebas used his infite speed to fly into space and confirm that the universe was really infinite. Can't argue with that

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Pretty sure that's old translation...But I think you're joking, anyways World dragon makes more sense in a lore/game sort of way, if it became real. I mean, Maruyama does have to eventually explain the [World Connector] class that I'm guessing everyone dragon lord either has or at-least has a [World] type of class.

Oh right, he said Touch-Me and Ainz scale to it.