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Outlier and feats (Mario exemple)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
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- feats mario bros outlier
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Following, I am interested as well.
Though if I had to take a guess, it's mostly that having a few feats on a high tier makes the feat a high end instead of an outlier? Or at least when he has feats in neighboring tiers? I dunno.
Though if I had to take a guess, it's mostly that having a few feats on a high tier makes the feat a high end instead of an outlier? Or at least when he has feats in neighboring tiers? I dunno.
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Well, literally kudos to above, because the tier 4 range of feats happens enough with characters that Mario and his peers fought with that it'd be called a trend and not an outlier for the collection of those feats.
The feats that are weaker than tier 4 you refer to could be likely a case of attack potency on the same scale that would be comparable enough in output to hurt a tier 4. Like with the lava that regularly burns Mario and is stated by characters in-verse, I'm betting that if you dropped a tier 4 character with that durability in that range into the lava on Mario's planet they'd burn down to a skeleton. Also, Mario's planet isn't Earth so lava being that stupidly powerful it wouldn't surprise me.
Another thing could be the feats you talk of could be a case of game mechanics that aren't accurate to story-related elements. Like goombas that are stated to be so pathetically weak compared to Mario in the bestiary according to Goombella yet they can harm him in gameplay. Kind of why Goombas wouldn't realistically be the same tier as him even though they do the same amount of damage as Bowser punch (Mario's stated physical peer) going by game hitpoints and such with the one touch you take off one wedge of life deal. But hard to tell based on which vague feats you mean lol.
To reverse the question, since the tier 4 feats have happened enough to be statistically countable (2 times or more), why wouldn't the outliers be the feats that are weaker than tier 4 that you speak of? Like going by a line of best fit, unless those feats had extenuating circumstances (being a game mechanic as a such circumstance) or would contradict plot, that would change the overall view for a character's tier level.
The feats that are weaker than tier 4 you refer to could be likely a case of attack potency on the same scale that would be comparable enough in output to hurt a tier 4. Like with the lava that regularly burns Mario and is stated by characters in-verse, I'm betting that if you dropped a tier 4 character with that durability in that range into the lava on Mario's planet they'd burn down to a skeleton. Also, Mario's planet isn't Earth so lava being that stupidly powerful it wouldn't surprise me.
Another thing could be the feats you talk of could be a case of game mechanics that aren't accurate to story-related elements. Like goombas that are stated to be so pathetically weak compared to Mario in the bestiary according to Goombella yet they can harm him in gameplay. Kind of why Goombas wouldn't realistically be the same tier as him even though they do the same amount of damage as Bowser punch (Mario's stated physical peer) going by game hitpoints and such with the one touch you take off one wedge of life deal. But hard to tell based on which vague feats you mean lol.
To reverse the question, since the tier 4 feats have happened enough to be statistically countable (2 times or more), why wouldn't the outliers be the feats that are weaker than tier 4 that you speak of? Like going by a line of best fit, unless those feats had extenuating circumstances (being a game mechanic as a such circumstance) or would contradict plot, that would change the overall view for a character's tier level.
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- Thread starter
- #4
I'm not only talking about weaker things, tier 3 - 2 are frequent (more than 5 times at least) for exemple. The questions is more "tier 4 feat are more a minority than a majority, so why they are the one which aren't outlier?".
I'm not talking about game mechanic too.
I'm not talking about game mechanic too.
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Well that's probably not my expertise. Since a lot of the games with the tier 3-2 stuffs I barely played.
The main thing I'm trying to get across is if they haven't been contradicted plot-wise to be weaker than tier 4 (doesn't contradict basic powerscaling like Mario being comparable to Zeekeeper, (hes rated tier 3-2 via the Dreamy Stone?) but Mario unable to break the Dreamy Stone's shield for example when only the Zeekeeper could do it with raw power would mean they aren't comparable), then yeah, the tier 4 stuff is what you'd go by since its story supported. Fighting tier 4 final bosses are story supported feats.
Both the weaker and higher feats than range above and below tier 4 both have inconsistencies regarding story based powerscaling it seems like, which is why they aren't considered, regardless of amount.
The main thing I'm trying to get across is if they haven't been contradicted plot-wise to be weaker than tier 4 (doesn't contradict basic powerscaling like Mario being comparable to Zeekeeper, (hes rated tier 3-2 via the Dreamy Stone?) but Mario unable to break the Dreamy Stone's shield for example when only the Zeekeeper could do it with raw power would mean they aren't comparable), then yeah, the tier 4 stuff is what you'd go by since its story supported. Fighting tier 4 final bosses are story supported feats.
Both the weaker and higher feats than range above and below tier 4 both have inconsistencies regarding story based powerscaling it seems like, which is why they aren't considered, regardless of amount.
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- Thread starter
- #6
Dream Team Bros is more Dreamy Luigi feats (except for the final fight maybe), but yeah this doesn't only half-count (still have Antasma).
But for exemple, Mario 2 (the doki doki like one), SMG, Super Paper Mario, Mario Party (6 if I remember), and some others have tier 2 or 3 feats, they still are constitent in their stories.
But for exemple, Mario 2 (the doki doki like one), SMG, Super Paper Mario, Mario Party (6 if I remember), and some others have tier 2 or 3 feats, they still are constitent in their stories.
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Like, nothing outright contradicts tier 4 Mario going by final bosses that he beats the snot out of and the consistent enough feats of said bosses that he'd power scale to due to them being story based feats stuff like sustaining and collapsing starry sky realms ex: Luigi fighting King Boo in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon and Wario fighting Black Jewel in Wario World.
In my opinion, for tier 3-A Mario and above? Story wise it creates a really long list of inconsistencies. I can go through this list lol
- Mario 2, pretty sure its just all just in Mario's dream in the original. He's just lying in bed lol. Not really sure if we count the doki doki version XD
- SMG, Mario and Peach being protected by Rosalina's shield from a blast that threatened the fabric of the universe; something that would create an inconsistency if we want to scale them directly to this showing of the Grand Stars' feat in the first place. Also, Mario being unable to break Rosalina's shield with his stomp attack, same attack that could tank the above blast if he's equal to or above that tier.
- Super Paper Mario, they were basically killed by Jaydes in the alternate ending, when the Void was scaring her at its current state. Bleck after obtaining the power to destroy a universe called Mario a "weakling" after knocking him out and after Mario stomped and failed to break his barrier.
- Mario Party 6? - never played it rofl
And in any sense we treat everything but Super Paper Mario as under the same universe but they are canon to each other due to dev statements so it would mean trying to be consistent across those games.
Although powerscaling Paper Mario to 3-D Mario is ok if you wanna use Paper Jam, but even so the shared universe should be different regarding the paper one and the 3-d one
In my opinion, for tier 3-A Mario and above? Story wise it creates a really long list of inconsistencies. I can go through this list lol
- Mario 2, pretty sure its just all just in Mario's dream in the original. He's just lying in bed lol. Not really sure if we count the doki doki version XD
- SMG, Mario and Peach being protected by Rosalina's shield from a blast that threatened the fabric of the universe; something that would create an inconsistency if we want to scale them directly to this showing of the Grand Stars' feat in the first place. Also, Mario being unable to break Rosalina's shield with his stomp attack, same attack that could tank the above blast if he's equal to or above that tier.
- Super Paper Mario, they were basically killed by Jaydes in the alternate ending, when the Void was scaring her at its current state. Bleck after obtaining the power to destroy a universe called Mario a "weakling" after knocking him out and after Mario stomped and failed to break his barrier.
- Mario Party 6? - never played it rofl
And in any sense we treat everything but Super Paper Mario as under the same universe but they are canon to each other due to dev statements so it would mean trying to be consistent across those games.
Although powerscaling Paper Mario to 3-D Mario is ok if you wanna use Paper Jam, but even so the shared universe should be different regarding the paper one and the 3-d one
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- Thread starter
- #8
-Subcion is the land of dreams, we know that dream are universe in Mario, so I don't think it's just a universe.
-Rosalina is beyond the main cast, and she more let the universe restart than anything else, PIS should also explain.
-Killed by death manip, it's hax not AP. Bleck already was amped by the Dark Heart at this moment. They still tank a not-complete void and fought a non-serious Dimentio.
-Mario Party is basically another dream thing.
There is also things like the fact that the Star Child having the power to control the universe according to one of the Yoshi's Island.
By the way, tier 4 create inconsistencies too in fact, both for weaker and stronger feat which are nearly equal (We have more than one country lvl final bosses, same for some others tiers with others bosses).
Also I don't see any stars in King Boo pocket dimension, maybe it's me not paying total attention, but I do the fight multiples times for trying to see them.
But I don't say "tier 2 is more legit" anyway, it's more the fact that tier 4 also have their inconsistencies, and they are deliberaly ignored.
-Rosalina is beyond the main cast, and she more let the universe restart than anything else, PIS should also explain.
-Killed by death manip, it's hax not AP. Bleck already was amped by the Dark Heart at this moment. They still tank a not-complete void and fought a non-serious Dimentio.
-Mario Party is basically another dream thing.
There is also things like the fact that the Star Child having the power to control the universe according to one of the Yoshi's Island.
By the way, tier 4 create inconsistencies too in fact, both for weaker and stronger feat which are nearly equal (We have more than one country lvl final bosses, same for some others tiers with others bosses).
Also I don't see any stars in King Boo pocket dimension, maybe it's me not paying total attention, but I do the fight multiples times for trying to see them.
But I don't say "tier 2 is more legit" anyway, it's more the fact that tier 4 also have their inconsistencies, and they are deliberaly ignored.
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- So what are the 2-A feats in Mario 2 that you think there are? More out of curiosity lol.
- Well, considering that she bothered to use the force field on Mario and Peach, not herself....it would imply that the blast would be enough to hurt them should they be unshielded.
- At the very begining of the game? No, Bleck had yet to kidnap Bowser and start the wedding to create the Chaos Heart and obtain it, he one-shot Mario at that point and saw his attack firsthand and called him weak. Previously he erased his world. We hear in the background of the cutscene when he destroys his world stuff being crushed / loud crashing noise for a few moments and then silence. Literally the same sound effect the Void has when it destroys stuff and erases / destroys it from time and space. The guidebook states not even a Pure heart could tank it and it got turned to stone. Why would we even scale 1 Pure Heart above the base heroes lol.
- Mind sharing these 2-A feats in Mario Party lol?
- Controlling isn't destroying a universe though, at best that you could powerscale the Star Childs above anyone but their future selves.
https://youtu.be/iVvy0O9CpWU?t=626
You can see the stars on the black sky part of the dimension, its literally the same sprites used for the other night sky scenes at the ending.
Well, personally I just think that they should be ranked at a tier that is story supported through the in - universe powerscale and has enough feats behind the tier (2+ or more feats).
Stuff like ranking base Mario at or above bloody Rosalina or Bleck would be outlier via powerscaling in my opinion.
- Well, considering that she bothered to use the force field on Mario and Peach, not herself....it would imply that the blast would be enough to hurt them should they be unshielded.
- At the very begining of the game? No, Bleck had yet to kidnap Bowser and start the wedding to create the Chaos Heart and obtain it, he one-shot Mario at that point and saw his attack firsthand and called him weak. Previously he erased his world. We hear in the background of the cutscene when he destroys his world stuff being crushed / loud crashing noise for a few moments and then silence. Literally the same sound effect the Void has when it destroys stuff and erases / destroys it from time and space. The guidebook states not even a Pure heart could tank it and it got turned to stone. Why would we even scale 1 Pure Heart above the base heroes lol.
- Mind sharing these 2-A feats in Mario Party lol?
- Controlling isn't destroying a universe though, at best that you could powerscale the Star Childs above anyone but their future selves.
https://youtu.be/iVvy0O9CpWU?t=626
You can see the stars on the black sky part of the dimension, its literally the same sprites used for the other night sky scenes at the ending.
Well, personally I just think that they should be ranked at a tier that is story supported through the in - universe powerscale and has enough feats behind the tier (2+ or more feats).
Stuff like ranking base Mario at or above bloody Rosalina or Bleck would be outlier via powerscaling in my opinion.
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- Thread starter
- #10
2-A? What are you talking about? I said tier 3 to tier 2.
Still not a contradiction in fact, since Bleck needed to be weakened without barrier for Dimentio to beat him, who can create an entire dimension. Bleck can be above baseline without incoherence.
Some characters have rating for controlling more than destroying, I remember Jafar had this for a similar reason before for example.
My bad for Luigi's Mansion if the little point in white are the stars.
I'm not sure that "outlier via powerscaling" even exist, like, we have a building lvl at best dragon scaled to Mario (Mario Odyssey) or an antagonist which needed an artefact to fuse two country. I think there something wrong in the actual tier because of the inconsistencies between each game about it.
Still not a contradiction in fact, since Bleck needed to be weakened without barrier for Dimentio to beat him, who can create an entire dimension. Bleck can be above baseline without incoherence.
Some characters have rating for controlling more than destroying, I remember Jafar had this for a similar reason before for example.
My bad for Luigi's Mansion if the little point in white are the stars.
I'm not sure that "outlier via powerscaling" even exist, like, we have a building lvl at best dragon scaled to Mario (Mario Odyssey) or an antagonist which needed an artefact to fuse two country. I think there something wrong in the actual tier because of the inconsistencies between each game about it.
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