OPM Revision - 9-A and Low 7-B Need New Calcs

[Agnaa]

After a brief discussion it seems like the method used for Genos' Low 7-B calc, Genos' High 7-C calc, and Jet Nice Guys' 9-A calc is invalid. A recalc using the conventional method for fire calcs would yield a result 50x lower. I believe the 9-A one is also used as justification for Low 6-B.

I am not sure whether or not the other ends of the Low 7-B calc are usable, as they're outside of my field of expertise.

I am not sure whether there's another calc backing up a Low 7-B, High 7-C, or 9-A rating. (EDIT: From discussion in the thread, it seems like High 7-C has another calc, but Low 7-B and 9-A don't)

I don't know the entire list of characters who scale to these calcs. (EDIT: Lists have been provided by Damage and Emirp)

All I know is that the accepted method for these calc is wrong.

I would appreciate help from knowledgeable members in seeing this revision through.

 

[Damage3245]

List of characters affected by the Jet Nice Guy calc:

• Black Sperm
• Flashy Flash
• Gale Wind
• Golden Ball
• Hellfire Flame
• Kamikaze (Atomic Samurai)
• Narcisstoic
• One Shotter
• Shadow Ring

List of characters affected by the Genos calc:

• Bug God
• Garou
• Genos
• Royal Ripper
• Tanktop Master

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Every High 7-C OPM character will be affected by the High 7-C feat, as they all scale from it.

As of now, only 3 people scale to the Low 7-B calc.

• Post-Superfight Genos
• Human Garou
• Tanktop Master
• Royal Ripper
• Bug God

 

[Damage3245]

@Emirp sumitpo Royal Ripper and Bug God also scale, right?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

@Emirp sumitpo Royal Ripper and Bug God also scale, right?

Oh yeah, them as well. So currently only 5 people scale to Low 7-B.

High 7-C is the one that should probably have the highest priority

 

[Damage3245]

Every High 7-C OPM character will be affected by the High 7-C feat, as they all scale from it.

Are you sure you're not thinking of a different High 7-C calc? The one in the OP doesn't seem to scale to anybody.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Are you sure you're not thinking of a different High 7-C calc? The one in the OP doesn't seem to scale to anybody.

Ah nvm then lmao. I guess we should prioritise 9-A first since more people scale to that.

 

[Agnaa]

I'll remove High 7-C from the title, then.

 

[Epiccheev]

There are a few other 9-A calcs i can remember if it helps anything
Wild horn (A-class)
Dave (???)

 

[Tural2004]

50x lower? L for OPM. But I think Jet Drive Arrow can be recalculated in a different way. High density energy is accepted to be 10^10 joules per cubic meter in this wiki and Genos' blasts have been accepted to be vaporizing things in another calc. Both methods give mountain level results. If not, there is another low 7-B calc (3.9 megatons) for Jet Drive Arrow but I don't know how accurate it is

 

[Recon1511]

So, who is going to take charge of recalculating the feats?

 

[Tural2004]

So, who is going to take charge of recalculating the feats?

High density energy is accepted to be 10^10 joules per cubic meter in this wiki and Genos' blasts have been accepted to be vaporizing things in another calc

This should be easy to calculate. If people agree with this method, I can do it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

This should be easy to calculate. If people agree with this method, I can do it.

Am piping in to say my agreement for this - if nothing else, I just want to see how this method works.

 

[Therefir]

If this method give Mountain level results like you said then we may have an issue that would affect many other profiles.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Outliner issues or would it massively affect the scale to the point that it messes everything up?

 

[Tural2004]

Here you go.

Genos' Jet Drive Arrow

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Kachon123]

If this method give Mountain level results like you said then we may have an issue that would affect many other profiles.

I don't see much of an issue tbh.

Having the Cadres (narratively implied to be strong Dragon level threats) being either 7-A or High 7-A makes sense considering the very strongest Dragon levels are 6-C to Low 6-B, especially considering the very weakest they could be is 7-B.

Not an outlier imo.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Here you go.

Genos' Jet Drive Arrow

vsbattles.fandom.com

First of all, awesome job!

I don't see much of an issue tbh.

Having the Cadres (narratively implied to be strong Dragon level threats) being either 7-A or High 7-A makes sense considering the very strongest Dragon levels are 6-C to Low 6-B, especially considering the very weakest they could be is 7-B.

Not an outlier imo.

And if you say it like that... It does make sense.

 

[ByAsura]

I wouldn't see why it's an outlier.

Pre-G4 Genos could already one-shot Hydrated DSK, so he has practically no scaling to his BoS ratings.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't see much of an issue tbh.

Having the Cadres (narratively implied to be strong Dragon level threats) being either 7-A or High 7-A makes sense considering the very strongest Dragon levels are 6-C to Low 6-B, especially considering the very weakest they could be is 7-B.

Not an outlier imo.

This. I suppose it at least makes the gap much less egregious.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

What even are the conditions needed for something to be accepted as plasma?

 

[Agnaa]

Why is that accepted as vaporizing? And why would we use the energy density of 10^10 J/m^3?

 

[ByAsura]

I didn't look into the specifics before, so I also have to ask why Genos' afterburners would be generating plasma.

I suppose it's possible, given that Genos has a fusion reactor, but that's not confirmation.

 

[Agnaa]

Also, looking into the source for all plasma being given that rating, it seems wack. ima make a thread about it.

 

[Tural2004]

Why is that accepted as vaporizing?

Because Genos' blasts have vaporized things on multiple occasions.

I didn't look into the specifics before, so I also have to ask why Genos' afterburners would be generating plasma.

And why would we use the energy density of 10^10 J/m^3?

Fire, explosions and such are plasma in general afaik. And Genos' blasts are referred as high temperature heat rays.

Besides that, the page I linked doesn't say it necessarily has to be plasma. It shows it as an example for high density energy. Genos' cannons are very clearly high density energy.

One upgrade earlier Genos was using G4's technology. And G4 fights using lasers which should already qualify for high density. It was specifically mentioned that those lasers were from converged energy from its abdomen.

All the way back in Giant Meteor arc, Genos started fighting by concentrating energy and thus, increasing his damage output.

 

[Tural2004]

Also, looking into the source for all plasma being given that rating, it seems wack. ima make a thread about it.

Wikipedia also states something similar and gives a number a magnitude higher than what I used in the calc. I wouldn't say it is wack. While it doesn't apply for all plasma (that just needs to be reworded on calculations page), it should still apply for Genos' blasts

 

[Agnaa]

Because Genos' blasts have vaporized things on multiple occasions.

That doesn't mean that all blasts always vaporize things.

Fire, explosions and such are plasma in general. And Genos' blasts are referred as high temperature heat rays.

Fire, explosions, and plasma can commonly exists below the temperatures involved in high energy density physics.

Besides that, the page I linked doesn't say it necessarily has to be plasma. It shows it as an example for high density energy. Genos' cannons are very clearly high density energy.

Can you prove that tho? Any more than every single energy blast in fiction seems to be "high density energy"?

One upgrade earlier Genos was using G4's technology. And G4 fights using lasers which should already qualify for high density. It was specifically mentioned that those lasers were from converged energy from its abdomen.

Absolutely not, not all lasers are 10^10 J/m^3 lmao.

All the way back in Giant Meteor arc, Genos started fighting by concentrating energy and thus, increasing his damage output.

Cool, we don't know the extent, so we can't slap an arbitrary number on it.

Wikipedia also states something similar and gives a number a magnitude higher than what I used in the calc. I wouldn't say it is wack

The part that's wack is interpreting plasma as equivalent to high energy density physics. When not all plasmas are at those high energy densities.

Plasma is just a state of matter. High energy density physics is just an arbitrary label we put on stuff that has too much energy.

 

[ByAsura]

The calculations page doesn't say anything of the sort. What it says is that high energy density physics applies to plasma, or that plasma with high energy density physics is at that level.

As for the wikipedia article, the only references are that plasma physics (including condensed matter found in stellar interiors) can overlap with high density energy.

The fact that Genos produces heat rays with relatively high energy density doesn't automatically mean it's in that energy range.

Hell, not all plasma is in that range. It depends on pressure.

 

[Agnaa]

To be fair, I think the current page does imply that all plasma is at that energy value. I've made a thread to remove that line, since it seems inaccurate.

 

[Tural2004]

That doesn't mean that all blasts always vaporize things.

But it still can. Your argument is similar to saying Saitama didn't destroy IO so his attacks can't actually destroy multiple Solar Systems whenever he wants

Fire, explosions, and plasma can commonly exists below the temperatures involved in high energy density physics.

I didn't claim otherwise. It was just to say that his attacks are plasma.

Can you prove that tho? Any more than every single energy blast in fiction seems to be "high density energy"?

Absolutely not, not all lasers are 10^10 J/m^3 lmao

Cool, we don't know the extent, so we can't slap an arbitrary number on it.

What you are saying is that G4's and Genos' technology are inferior to that of real life stuff which is absurd. Genos' body is constantly referred as latest tech and that's in OPM universe to boot.

While not all lasers are 10^10 J/m^3, the strongest lasers are. The most powerful laser in the world is 10^16 watts. (I couldn't find a reference in m^3 to compare)

Saying it is 10^10 J/m^3 would be a low end istead of an arbitrary number.

 

[Agnaa]

But it still can. Your argument is similar to saying Saitama didn't destroy IO so his attacks can't actually destroy multiple Solar Systems whenever he wants

I don't think they're too similar, actually.

What you are saying is that G4's and Genos' technology are inferior to that of real life stuff which is absurd. Genos' body is constantly referred as latest tech and that's in OPM universe to boot.

While not all lasers are 10^10 J/m^3, the strongest lasers are. The most powerful laser in the world is 10^16 watts.

Saying it is 10^10 J/m^3 would be a low end istead of an arbitrary number.

Watts and J/m^3 are quite different units.

Anyway, I don't think we accept the reasoning of putting "latest tech" above random IRL lasers, especially when they're used in wildly different contexts. But you're free to ask around other calc group members if you want more opinions.

 

[Tural2004]

don't think they're too similar, actually.

It was the best comparison I could think of.

Watts and J/m^3 are quite different units.

I know. I just couldn't find a measurement in J/m^3 related to lasers (which makes sense when I think about it). But 10^16 as sheer number should still show how powerful laser weapons can be.

If you want another example, Genos' core is a nuclear reactor. And nuclear phsyics was listed under high density energy physics

 

[ByAsura]

To expand on that last bit, Genos' core at critical can begin thermal runaway. From what I've been able to find, that confirms Genos uses a fusion reactor (as I was saying before).

However, that's only if Genos doesn't convert the energy he receives from his core into a different form, which we know he can do because he produces electricity.

 

[Tural2004]

More than often he doesn't and goes straight for energy beams.

 

[Agnaa]

That still doesn't seem like a great argument. The issue is that going to large scales like that results in a massive drop of energy.

So watts are joules per second; every second it provides that many joules of energy.

If it takes 10^10 joules to create one cubic meter of energy blast, it will take 10^16 joules to create 10^6 m^3 of energy blast.

If you want to use the same amount of source energy to cover a wider area, each part of that area is going to receive less energy. If a small blast can vaporize rock, that doesn't mean that a larger blast could; in fact, you'd expect the latter to not be able to.

The calc you've provided would have a total output ~300x greater than the laser you mentioned, despite being in a vastly different form-factor (the core of a humanoid instead of a ginormous laser, I assume that lasers on that scale would occupy a large building or so).

And like, if we go by wattage (joules per second), a larger blast would require more time to build up the necessary amount of joules, if you wanted to keep the same energy density. Although this would also require one to have batteries capable of storing and discharging all of that.

Sorry that this post wasn't organised very well, but there's just a whole variety of angles to tackle "He's powered by a nuclear reactor so his energy blasts have a constant 10^10 J/m^3 density" from. I think both of the ends in your calc are unusable, but there's a lot of reasons that could be given for why.

 

[XVII]

guys
it's fiction

anyway, i agree with the calc

 

[Recon1511]

7-A upper tiers cadres and S class then?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Recon1511]

Yeah idk what will happen with this one, can someone recalc the 9-A calc? It's important for the Golden Sperm and Platinum Sperm multiplier

 

[Qawsedf234]

Pre-G4 Genos could already one-shot Hydrated DSK, so he has practically no scaling to his BoS ratings.

Post-G4 Genos. Pre-G4 Genos just dehydrated DSK with his flame cannon, which is why he powered down.