OPM Monster Association Arc God-Tiers Revision

[Emirp sumitpo]

Should have dimensional BFR and travel via copying Blast (this is also used for teleportation on Blast's profile) replaces/adds to regular BFR

Agree

For the same reason he has overwhelming aura he should also have social influencing for fear

That's not Social Influencing

• Light manipulation
• Weather manipulation (black rain is a side effect of radiation)
• Spatial manipulation added to gravity knuckle justification
• Antimatter manipulation, macro-quantum manipulation (can control his electron spin and antiparticles)

Agree

Upgrade present timeline Awakened Garou to match alternate Awakened Garou (Possibly High 4-C to 4-A) (admitted that Future Saitama hitting him was far stronger than pre-serious punch Saitama. Yes, he lost the form afterwards, but he didn't get turned into mist from an attack billions of times above his supposed level. His punches destroyed Blast's hyperspace gates before copying Saitama, which were also destroyed in the serious punch collision)

Disagree. This would heavily contradict the fact that Garou was trying to get Saitama to full power so he could copy his full strength. Also I don't see how the second one is grounds for scaling when both destroyed the gates anyway.

Add a "likely far higher" (I'm compensating for likely 3-C here)(Saitama and Garou are only three orders of magnitude away from 3-C from their serious punch clash, and they have received exponential growth since then.)

At least and likely higher on his profile already cover that so there's no point in it. And both are only 33.69 Exafoe, which is a pretty long way from baseline 3-C iirc.

Upgrade to 4-A, likely far higher (Blast and his teammates were able to reduce the output of serious punch squared . Blast was also worried about the attack hitting the Earth and being able to alter its trajectory away from the planet, showing he wasn't concerned about his own well-being while approximating how he could somehow manage the energy.

Blast did all of this via his space hax, you'd need to proof that this hax would scale to his physical stats.

Was also stated to be fighting against God himself in another dimension, whereas Garou only received a portion of God's power.

The guy also states that the only reason Blast could battle GOD was because of his space time hax, implying it may not be an AP thing. And if Blast was truly on GOD's level, he should not have had that much trouble fighting Garou.

• I think sealing should be removed but BFR kept, he essentially has two distinct abilities for the same reason. BFR is more accurate here.
• "Gravity Manipulation and Absorption (Should be able to replicate Garou's usage of the Gravity Knuckle to absorb attacks)" The reason should just be via gravity knuckle and should link to Garou's feats. Garou copied Blast's attacks, not the other way around.

Neutral

Should outright be massively FTL. He was able to react to and warp away the same Saitama and Garou that were speeding around IO. Garou had not decided to endlessly copy Saitama yet.

Pretty eh towards this one. Before Saitama performed the MFTL feat, he was blitzing the living hell out of Garou.

His parallel and current timeline should be the same key, as they fused into the same being, which is also stated by Genos. He just forgot everything. For this reason he should also have a far higher rating, especially since he had a stronger exponential boost than Garou. Yes, by punching Garou he should have erased those events out of existence, but Parallel Garou's "ghost" being present in the main timeline, as well as the continued existence of Future Genos's core which had recordings of that timeline suggest something else.

Neutral

Change matter manipulation to macro-quantum

This is fine.

Should go from mftl to likely mftl+ (fusing with his pre-exponential power gap self that completed the IO feat should at least double his speed at the time of the feat through simple addition)

We don't give such an upscale without a proper multipliers, and the speed value both scale isn't close enough to upscale.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Blast should be at most 4-A only because Garou was breaking his smaller portals as I said

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

We should just use that ISL 4-A dura Blast calc smh

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hyperspace by definition uses another dimension to travel.

He never demonstrates that range so he doesn't get that range.

The point is that none of saitama's punches were with maximum lethal force, including the serious punch ^2

A big difference here though: Saitama stated he could use his full power against Garou. The serious punch clash involved Saitama going 100% against Garou I'm that moment.

Considering Saitama got so much stronger than he could one shot a Garou multiple times stronger than he was at the start of their fight, past Garou wouldn't scale to 4-A. Saitama doesn't want to kill him and he has no reason to scale to Saitama going all out since he was one shot.

blast was still able to redirect the beam, just not enough for it to completely avoid earth
" i cant give it enough distance"

The third panel has him think "I have to somehow manage to at least alter the vector away from Earth".

If he was capable of doing it easily or with his power he wouldn't express doubt or panic like he did there. They also used spatial manipulation to alter the attack which is more hax that AP.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Blast should be at most 4-A only because Garou was breaking his smaller portals as I said

I’d like someone to acknowledge this

 

[Kin201]

No, no, stop it, he does not
there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever suggesting this.

There aren't? Parts of his clothes were missing after the fusion implies he did actually fuse with his naked self and received the stat boost from the Jupiter fight. That's how I see it.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

There aren't? Parts of his clothes were missing after the fusion implies he did actually fuse with his naked self and received the stat boost from the Jupiter fight. That's how I see it.

I just took it as they smacked into eachother really hard
anyways if they really were the same then he’d be butt ass naked, so it’s not good proof

 

[Damage3245]

There aren't? Parts of his clothes were missing after the fusion implies he did actually fuse with his naked self and received the stat boost from the Jupiter fight. That's how I see it.

His clothes were already torn up from the Gamm Ray Burst he just took.

 

[Kin201]

His clothes were already torn up from the Gamm Ray Burst he just took.

I was referring to this. In the future where he fought Garou on Jupiter he didn't have a hole in his pants like this.

 

[Damage3245]

I was referring to this. In the future where he fought Garou on Jupiter he didn't have a hole in his pants like this.

Sure. But getting a hole in his pants isn't sufficient proof of his statistics being fused together.

 

[Golden_Void]

We attribute that feat to spatial manipulation rather than telekinesis, which isn't some that scales to AP.

It still takes energy to compress/manipulate energy.

He never demonstrates interdimensional portal range.

Nah. Blast attempts to BFR him using the same portals and fails. Garou uses the same exact technique. Idk how you're debating this.

Social influcing for fear is the same thing. He doesn't do enough to warrant a power like that in my view.

"This can be used in a number of ways via their looks, natural charm, or their way of speaking."
"It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors."

These are qualifications that Garou directly show.

Do we count being bright as light manipulation?

Generation of light is light manipulation, especially when being stated as brighter than the sun.

Even in that case it's more direct, since the person is directly influcing the environment. Garou just floods the area with radiation, which then eventually causes the black rain. It's a by product of his fission attacks, not a direct manipulation of weather patterns.

There weren't any possible conditions for the rain to form naturally in the first place, given the nuke shockwaves were blowing everything away within several kilometers of distance and his black hole absorbing everything in the local area. Weather manipulation as a side effect of powering up makes even less sense since there's no basis in science or reality that would cause a storm compared to someone with cosmic knowledge and influence.

Then there's no justification for 4-A scaling. Saitama had no incentive to hit him with maximum lethal force.

Again, Saitama never intended to kill him, even in a different part of the solar system where he had no incentive to hold back. And as I said before, Garou stated Future Saitama's punch put Past Saitama's power to shame, and Garou already knew Saitama was capable of more power than he displayed before serious punch since he intentionally killed Genos to draw it out.

Garou still copied Saitama's serious mode at the jump, meaning his base became equal to Saitama's base for the Io fight. It's why he's straight up 4-A for his alt timeline key.

He's 4-A for his serious punch. He had already copied Saitama's normal consecutive punches prior to that. The only way that argument works is if you suggest Saitama's serious punches are tiers apart from his normal punches.

He internally panicked and his only option was to try and redirect the beam rather than cancel it. He also needed help to do that as well.

Well, I don't think anybody in this thread is arguing that Blast should be stronger than the combined output of Saitama and Garou. That makes no sense.

He warped away Garou, got immediately countered and then thr punch barrage shattered his gates and flooded the area with more radiation. Blast also said that Garou would kill the Earth if he didn't get him off planet.

Considering Garou also considered Saitama significantly mote powerful I don't see him scaling to 4-A

None of this addresses anything I said. He said Earth would be a dead planet, not Earth would be destroyed. He never mentioned the destruction of earth until serious punch. Assuming the most simple explanation for that meaning the end of all biological life, then Blast is referring to Garou's insane radiation that is billions of times over the lethal dose for any biological organism.

There's still the fact his team stated he's fought someone before with as much divine power as Garou while witnessing serious punch^2. I don't see any argument on this point.

 

[Golden_Void]

We should just use that ISL 4-A dura Blast calc smh

The value for SP^2 already uses inverse square law (I'm confused by what you're saying tbh).

 

[Golden_Void]

.

A lot of what you said is already addressed, but I will address the multipliers portion.

At least and likely higher on his profile already cover that so there's no point in it. And both are only 33.69 Exafoe, which is a pretty long way from baseline 3-C iirc.

The difference between serious punch squared and 3-C is less than the square of serious punch squared. Considering they had an exponential increase in their powers, then it is highly likely.

We don't give such an upscale without a proper multipliers, and the speed value both scale isn't close enough to upscale.

The difference between their current speed ratings and mftl+ is less than twice.

 

[Qawsedf234]

still takes energy to compress/manipulate energy.

If you're folding space then there's no AP involved.

Blast attempts to BFR him using the same portals and fails. Garou uses the same exact technique.

The portal is closing and reopens right after. Garou also never uses portals for anything interdimensional either.

These are qualifications that Garou directly show.

Yeah you're right

There weren't any possible conditions for the rain to form naturally in the first place,

The mushroom clouds can form black rain as little as an hour after detonation. It's a by product of radiation which doesn't fit the qualifications for the power

Weather Manipulation is the ability to psionically control and alter the forces of the atmosphere, creating changes in the weather. The user can intensify winds, summon storm clouds, and affect barometric pressure. Can be concentrated to generate indoor storms and to control the movement of rain/wind/lightning. One has the power to psionically control the weather in a wide range of distances. Characters can create or summon clear sky, rain, hail, snow, thunderstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc. It can be used offensively, or as the cycle of life for everyday human beings.

So he just doesn't qualify for it.

Again, Saitama never intended to kill him, even in a different part of the solar system where he had no incentive to hold back

Saitama said he could use his full power against Garou and did before his evolution. Being one shot by an attack isn't a scaling justification. Saitama just output greater force than an unamped Garou could handle.

The only way that argument works is if you suggest Saitama's serious punches are tiers apart from his normal punches.

It is, because Garou mentioned Saitama wasn't using his full strength and afterwards went on to overshadow Garou quite decisively in their fight with only one hand.

There's still the fact his team stated he's fought someone before with as much divine power as Garou while witnessing serious punch^2

They don't say that, they say they're surprised someone other than Blast can fight someone with that much Divine power. Garou also said outright that Blast didn't interest him because Saitama is stronger and after the reboot Garou also stated that Saitama was more powerful than Blast.

I'm not seeing 4-A for him without more evidence.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I don’t see how Saitama being more powerful than best means Blast can’t scale to the scale of that power? Blast is stated to have defeated beings with Garou’s level of power prior.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don’t see how Saitama being more powerful than best means Blast can’t scale to the scale of that power?

Because Garou got a massive amp right after and Blast was struggling to put Garou down before that.

stated to have defeated beings with Garou’s level of power prior.

When was that said?

 

[Quangotjokes]

Because Garou got a massive amp right after and Blast was struggling to put Garou down before that.

The amp was unquantifiable, and Blast wasn’t struggling. He successfully blitzed and bfr’d Garou rather easily. He just came back.

When was that said?

Blast friends, it’s in the scan you linked lol

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

The amp was unquantifiable, and Blast wasn’t struggling. He successfully blitzed and bfr’d Garou rather easily. He just came back.

Blast friends, it’s in the scan you linked lol

The scan says take on, which implies either he's fought beings on that level of power, or they think he's able to defeat being on that level of power.

 

[Quangotjokes]

The scan says take on, which implies either he's fought beings on that level of power, or they think he's able to defeat being on that level of power.

Yes

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I’d like someone to acknowledge this

Again

 

[Qawsedf234]

The amp was unquantifiable, and Blast wasn’t struggling. He successfully blitzed and bfr’d Garou rather easily. He just came back.

The amp is an amp. You can't scale someone pre amp to someone after an amp.

For three other part he punched Garou to minimal effect, had his gates overwhelmed and had Garou say he wasn't interested in him afterwards.

Blast friends, it’s in the scan you linked lol

They didn't mentioned him fighting someone before that was on Garou's level.

, or they think he's able to defeat being on that level of power.

Tale on just means fight and he couldn't stop the clash without help. As I said before those aren't proper scaling justifications.

 

[Golden_Void]

If you're folding space then there's no AP involved.

What evidence shows space was distorted? The total energy present was reduced to a quarter of its size.

The portal is closing and reopens right after. Garou also never uses portals for anything interdimensional either.

Ok and? That doesn't debunk the fact that it is a dimensional portal, the same exact one that Garou copies.

The mushroom clouds can form black rain as little as an hour after detonation. It's a by product of radiation which doesn't fit the qualifications for the power

So his nuclear punches create mushroom clouds as a direct effect of the ability, which leads to rain, among other atmospheric effects. Still not seeing how it isn't weather manipulation. And since when are byproducts of abilities not a thing? Afterimages are their own abilities, which are byproducts of speed. Temperature manipulation is its own ability, which is a byproduct of fire manipulation or ice manipulation.

Saitama said he could use his full power against Garou and did before his evolution. Being one shot by an attack isn't a scaling justification. Saitama just output greater force than an unamped Garou could handle.

I wouldn't say he was one-shot at all. He was mildly damaged and caught off guard, which makes it objectively worse for him, but he wasn't knocked out or killed and still managed to run away after letting himself get jumped. So his durability would downscale at the very least.

It is, because Garou mentioned Saitama wasn't using his full strength and afterwards went on to overshadow Garou quite decisively in their fight with only one hand.

The manga directly states and shows that the punches Saitama was throwing on Jupiter were of the same variety that he hit Present Garou with. Among other supporting reasons.

They don't say that, they say they're surprised someone other than Blast can fight someone with that much Divine power. Garou also said outright that Blast didn't interest him because Saitama is stronger and after the reboot Garou also stated that Saitama was more powerful than Blast.

I'm not seeing 4-A for him without more evidence.

Bruh, that's literally saying the same thing, just worded differently. Blast was also actively trying to defend the Earth from Garou, and not engage in a planet-busting battle that would result in the exact opposite of everything he was hoping to accomplish. If Garou were so much better than Blast, he would have landed at least one blow. Blast treated him like a speed bag and reacted to each of his blows after he already copied Saitama once.

I'm going to bed though, I'll be back in many hours.

 

[Damage3245]

@Golden_Void Garou was objectively one-shot by Saitama there.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

@Golden_Void Garou was objectively one-shot by Saitama there.

Didnt he get up just shortly afterward?

 

[Golden_Void]

@Golden_Void Garou was objectively one-shot by Saitama there.

He was literally back on his feet in 7 panels after he got snuffed before he lost his powers. Going to bed for real this time

 

[Kin201]

He was literally back on his feet in 7 panels after he got snuffed before he lost his powers. Going to bed for real this time

I think it's just an inconsistent. Everyone knows Garou at that point is obviously fodder to naked Saitama from the future. If the only argument for this is "the punch didn't reduce Garou to atoms" then I'm against it. Blast would also back-scale to this for supposedly damaging that same Garou. And this would create circular scaling I think?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I’d like someone to acknowledge this

I’d like to not be ignored for a moment here

 

[Kin201]

Blast should be at most 4-A only because Garou was breaking his smaller portals as I said

Why does Blast have 4-A physicals again?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What evidence shows space was distorted? The total energy present was reduced to a quarter of its size.

It wasn't reduced, they changed its vector. The total energy remained the same.

Ok and? That doesn't debunk the fact that it is a dimensional portal, the same exact one that Garou copies.

Garou never showcases that he can travel to other dimensions.

Still not seeing how it isn't weather manipulation. And since when are byproducts of abilities not a thing?

The page itself states that to qualify you need to directly control the weather with your powers. Either psionically or with magic. Garou nuking an area and the radiation causing black rain isn't weather manipulation for the same reason punching a planet hard enough for it to explode isn't Earth Manipulation.

The manga directly states and shows that the punches Saitama was throwing on Jupiter were of the same variety that he hit Present Garou with.

Which one shot Garou and removed him from that form. Saitama also wasn't trying to kill Garou. So there's nothing backing 4-A scaling to base Garou.

If Garou were so much better than Blast, he would have landed at least one blow.

Garou wasn't harmed by Blast and said he didn't interest him. Then he copied Saitama and got much stronger.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with Qawsedf234.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why does Blast have 4-A physicals again?

He beat up Garou for a bit

 

[Golden_Void]

I've been busy, my bad. I'll still be super slow in my responses though, I'm busy.

It wasn't reduced, they changed its vector. The total energy remained the same.

Folding space and spatial manipulation not having any bearing on AP needs citation, considering the following:

Spatial Manipulation is the ability to warp, bend, flip, crush, and control space.

The ability only refers to one's ability to manipulate an area, not to defy its laws, so gravity, friction, and many other rules may still apply.

Garou never showcases that he can travel to other dimensions.

Again, Blast used the same technique to attempt to BFR Garou to a different dimension, which was his stated intention. Repeating yourself or moving the goalposts doesn't change the facts.

The page itself states that to qualify you need to directly control the weather with your powers. Either psionically or with magic. Garou nuking an area and the radiation causing black rain isn't weather manipulation for the same reason punching a planet hard enough for it to explode isn't Earth Manipulation.

Stating you can only manipulate weather via supernatural means is an absurd take. By that definition, naturally occurring weather doesn't even qualify for weather manipulation. But as you said earlier, black rain can be produced from mushroom clouds which is a direct effect of the nuclear blast in atmospheric conditions. There are plenty of profiles that have at least limited weather manipulation as an effect of another ability.

Which one shot Garou and removed him from that form. Saitama also wasn't trying to kill Garou. So there's nothing backing 4-A scaling to base Garou.

For the third time, Saitama was never trying to kill Garou. Your defense is an argument that literally does not exist. Garou wouldn't downscale if we were arguing over a baseline feat, but they were millions of times over baseline 4-A to begin with. He also already copied Saitama once prior to the time travel destination, and Garou states their power is equal several times. He copied consecutive normal punches even though he had never witnessed Saitama use that technique since his full monsterization form, which shows he already has comparable power to Saitama prior to directly copying serious punch since Saitama never showcased this move after Garou's new form.

After the time travel point, Garou states his intention to draw out Saitama's full power. Saitama verbally communicated he will start using his full power on IO, which is after their 4-A collision. The power chart covers the relative increase between the two's powers, and Saitama did not start demonstrating any noticeable gap in power until they started boosting each other on IO, which supports Garou's earlier statements. Prior to IO, their power was consistently even, with Saitama having a slight edge.

Garou was also not emotionally/mentally moved in the face of serious punch; he just did one back. He had no concern for his well-being, unlike when Saitama was getting exponentially stronger, and he was fearing for his life. This means the gap between Pre-IO Garou and Saitama is exponentially smaller than the gap between IO Garou and Saitama.

Again, nothing proves Saitama's normal punches and serious punches are tiers apart even if I do agree he got one-shot, considering the context of his time-traveling punch shows the inverse is true.

Garou wasn't harmed by Blast and said he didn't interest him. Then he copied Saitama and got much stronger.

This is true if you ignore the words on the page and only look at the nice drawings. Garou did not land a single blow on Blast, whose main intent was to cause no collateral damage. You can't brag about a situation you accomplished nothing in.

As I said, Blast was fighting God himself for 20 years. And as I said earlier (a point you also did not refute), Blast simply having space-time powers is not the main reason he could fight God, otherwise if you put his powers in the hands of any top S-Class hero, they should be able to achieve similar results. But none of them have any feats close to tier 5, let alone the power to match an avatar of God who is 4-A. Blast has very likely already seen other avatars of God, since he implies he has seen the power of beings who take the full impartation of power from God. Supplemented with his team's statement of being able to fight a being with that much of God's power, it is obvious that Garou isn't the only being with that level of power that Blast fought.

I’d like someone to acknowledge this

Blast's portals couldn't contain the combined power of Saitama and Garou. We also know Garou was overloading them by himself. There's no way to compare either feat and give an estimate of how strong the portals are.

 

[Golden_Void]

I would also like to add Physics Manipulation to Garou, given he has complete knowledge and control over both universal energies and forces.

As a result, one is able to replicate virtually every phenomenon possible in nature or through science and cancel it just as easily.

And black hole creation should also list feats from gravity knuckle.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Idk about physics manip. But I’ll have to disagree with GK being black hole creation. Just because it’s black doesn’t mean it’s a. Black hole.

 

[Golden_Void]

Idk about physics manip. But I’ll have to disagree with GK being black hole creation. Just because it’s black doesn’t mean it’s a. Black hole.

It behaves and looks the same as the black hole from his GRB; you could argue that it is even more legit since there aren't large energy blasts being emitted from it (which also happens in that specific case.) It also satisfies our requirements for light not escaping and destructiveness. He also has cosmic knowledge of all universal forces and energies as supporting evidence.

 

[Recon1511]

I might be misremembering but I think Blast created some kind of black hole to absorb Garou's nuclear fission punches

 

[Golden_Void]

I might be misremembering but I think Blast created some kind of black hole to absorb Garou's nuclear fission punches

He used dimensional gates

 

[Worthless]

There aren't? Parts of his clothes were missing after the fusion implies he did actually fuse with his naked self and received the stat boost from the Jupiter fight. That's how I see it.

Same i also think the reason Genos remembers it is so in case something happens to humanity in the future genos would be there to teach him the technique to reverse it.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

It behaves and looks the same as the black hole from his GRB; you could argue that it is even more legit since there aren't large energy blasts being emitted from it (which also happens in that specific case.) It also satisfies our requirements for light not escaping and destructiveness. He also has cosmic knowledge of all universal forces and energies as supporting evidence.

The only thing it has shown that appears to be like a black hole is the vacuum effect. I guess I have black hole manipulation via a vacuum cleaner, other than that, there’s nothing.
We see this “black hole” but according to blast (from the scan sent above) this is just him trying to close them into his “gates”.
If they were black holes then they would have stated they were one.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

And as for physics manipulation, having an understanding of energies of the universe wouldn’t give him this ability, and the fact that he’s never alluded to having such a thing or even trying to use it just further demonstrates his lack of powers.
Why the hell would he use nuclear bombs if he can apparently alter the way the universe functions itself?