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OPM Dragon level threats downgrade

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Ah yes so we are clearly going to be biased towards Gouketsu and magically pretend that the other Dragon level Cadres can't be even x2 as strong as a monster several tiers below them.

I'm sorry but can we not? This is just utterly and completely ridiculous.
 
We're not being biased to Goketsu, he just has a large existing scaling chain that makes him 7-B. I'm fine with most of the Cadre's being 7-B like Psykos or Homeless Emperor. But some of them just don't have it like Gums.
 
I'm definetly not being biased to gouketsu; I just fail to see why the others without the feats or even the actual 'hype' as you describe them would scale to him.

Hell, I reread like all of the monster association arc because of your claims of certain cadre's being stated to be said to be the strongest and well none of those statements existed. Except for evil natural water being hard to control and this basically just meant in the context of following orders. Since they mention the strength aspect afterwards as hes thinking about dumping evil water to fight child emperor.

Even at chapter 108 when lord orochi the strongest of all of the monsters at that point doesnt even mention or really bother with anyone except saitama, and hes excited because this is the person who killed elder centipede and gouketsu which honestly I think hyped him up a lot more than most of the cadre's since orochi's entire existence was just 'need to get stronger' and 'acknowledge the strong'.

So even if I look at it from your perspective of their 'hype' then I dont see gouketsu as being at the lower end of the cadre's
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Ah yes so we are clearly going to be biased towards Gouketsu and magically pretend that the other Dragon level Cadres can't be even x2 as strong as a monster several tiers below them.
I'm sorry but can we not? This is just utterly and completely ridiculous.
Click to expand...
This is not a good argument. There is no point in calling us biased.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
We're not being biased to Goketsu, he just has a large existing scaling chain that makes him 7-B. I'm fine with most of the Cadre's being 7-B like Psykos or Homeless Emperor. But some of them just don't have it like Gums.
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Would this compromise be acceptable to you Matthew?
 
When he says Psykos I think he means the upgraded Psykos which should be 6-C for reasons I explained in the other thread so no.
 
Base Psykos scaling to Tornado is extremely iffy considering how easily she was overpowered and Tornado not wanting to kill her immediately. Barring future stuff I don't think it's correct to rate her that high.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Base Psykos scaling to Tornado is extremely iffy considering how easily she was overpowered and Tornado not wanting to kill her immediately. Barring future stuff I don't think it's correct to rate her that high.
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I already explained my point time and again and the majority of the people barring some agree. Tatsumaki was undeniably putting more effort against Psykos than she did against the bullets.
 
If the bullets calc is too flawed to use anyway, does this matter?
 
@Matthew Schroeder; I know we currently use it right now, otherwise we wouldn't even be discussing it.

Also this isn't really moving the goalposts, but pointing out that there is a second previously unnoticed pair of goalposts.
 
Antvasima said:
I do not think that pre-Orochi Psykos should scale to Tatsumaki.
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Casual Tatsumaki who did the 6-C feat by raising a finger. Not 100% Tatsumaki who did the Low 6-B feat.
 
Casual Tatsumaki effortlessly stomped Psykos though, and that was after Psykos drank a potion to amplify her powers.
 
The potion was drank to unleash her powers and she was still able to break free of Tatsumaki's psychic bindings and drag Tatsumaki down.
 
Only one of those feats required like any effort and it wasnt something that psykos would scale too. Being surprised also isnt like an actual objective level of casualness, it just means she was casual and got surprised when the opponent broke it, how do you gauge just how casual she was being at that point though? Following this 'getting pushed' shes not resisting so it's like not relevant to her doing anything and 'violent power clash' isnt an objective level of how casual she was either especially since we know she is just ******* around at that point and isnt having anything even remotely close to an actual attempt at fighting

If her power of 'casual' ranges as much as saitama's level of casual for instance then just saying 'well she did this casually' doesnt really indicate how casually it was or how much effort she put in.

All we have is 'was casual' which like... what does that even mean?
 
>Only one of those feats required like any effort and it wasnt something that psykos would scale too. Being surprised also isnt like an actual objective level of casualness and 'violent power clash' isnt an objective level of how casual she was either, especially since we know she is being casual during all of this.

Only one? are you sure, she broke Tatsumaki's influence and pushed her too, and, being surprised is indeed an objective factor, because it show that the characters who usually perform all of her feat casually is surprised that it wont worked this time. Also, she is "casual all of the time" indeed, but she showed that she exerced her power less casually that just casually rising a hand.

>If her power of 'casual' ranges as much as saitama's level of casual for instance then just saying 'well she did this casually' doesnt really indicate how casually it was or how much effort she put in.

Not really, since she showed to having more trouble against Psykos than what she already did casually, having many casual feat which have many difference is power is good, but when it's show that the characters exerced more effort than what she already did casually, then it's logic to scale her opponent at least at the level of her previous casual feat.

>All we have is 'was casual' which like... what does that even mean?

All we have was casual, except that there exist many difference in what she do for her 6-C feat and what she showed against psykos, even if both was casual.
 
The Causality said:
So to summary, Tatsumaki exercing her power to attract with some effort; get surprised due to psykos's getting away from tats's grap, having herself getting pushed,having a violent power clash isn't more than Tatsumaki casually rising a hand.
That make no sense.
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Thank you Causality.

The bias / reluctance to upgrade One Punch Man characters in this wiki is insane.
 
Can you lay off on the bias for one ******* second?

One Punch Man is one of the most populat verses on this site and has been getting upgraded since all were downgraded to 7C and High 7C.

Stop using Bias as an arguement and making our arguements worse as a result of it. No one takes seriously someone who is constantly attacking people's beliefs and not their arguments
 
Well said Schnee One. Continuing to call us biased is a ridiculous fallacy and makes it very hard for us to take you seriously Matthew.
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure; it's basically saying 'well to me this is more casual than this one so obviously this amount of casual means she used more power than if she used this casual to do this casual'

I mean- just doing something casually has no actual indication of how much power was used.

Just saying 'well she used more energy after being casual'doesnt like mean anything because it doesnt actually indicate how much power was actually used.

For instance which do you think was more casual one punching boros armor or one punching gergunshoop, or which was more casual punching light bulb man or accidently hitting someone with his ass.

All of these are casual but well have greatly different amounts of power and you can definetly argue that some of the more casual ones such as boros armor required more energy and power than the super casual stuff like gergunshoop or hitting seriyu by spinning his hips
 
>Yeah I'm pretty sure; it's basically saying 'well to me this is more casual than this one so obviously this amount of casual means she used more power than if she used this casual to do this casual' I mean- just doing something casually has no actual indication of how much power was used.

Obviously there is, just like you exerss more effort in jumping than justslowly walking, both was casual but the energy is differnt for an easy exemple. and for Tatsu's stuff, she showed way more things to defeat an opponent casually than lift a hand.

>Just saying 'well she used more energy after being casual'doesnt like mean anything because it doesnt actually indicate how much power was actually used.

Once again obviously this mean something, you obviously exerces more effort to fight an opponent, encontering 'some' difficulties against him than just casually lift your hand and perforing a 6-C feat.

>For instance which do you think was more casual one punching boros armor or one punching gergunshoop, or which was more casual punching light bulb man or accidently hitting someone with his ass.

All of these are casual but well have greatly different amounts of power and you can definetly argue that some of the more casual ones such as boros armor required more energy and power than the super casual stuff like gergunshoop or hitting seriyu by spinning his hips

In those case, there is, literally no indication of how much Saitama was casual for both his punch, there is no point to debate, and you can tell that the blow against suiryu was less casual due to him actually not diying to the blow wich killed many more opponent stronger than he was at this moment (and also the context), there is difference in powers, but doesn't change anything for tats since she showed in her fight a less casual atitude than her 6-C feat, i don't see the point here.

For people who want to know what the Casual Tats was, her first fight against Gyro Gyro was a good indication of tats's casual power, since it was one sided, without even debate.
 
Dienomite22 said:
I see no reason not to scale amped Psykos to casual Tatsumaki. Her Boros ship feat was far more casual than her run-in with Psykos.
Click to expand...
I shared this view, also.
 
You mean just like we have no actual indication of how casual tatsu was outside just saying 'well she put more effort to equally tie her opponent' which then can literally be said about anything saitama does.

Theres no actual indication tatsu was using more or less power than she did with the ship feat other than 'tatsu was having fun and playing around, so she didnt instantly murder psykos *who she wasnt trying to murder*

Your like conflating 'effort' with power used right now which is.... basically just he said she said at this point. Hell you even said that saitama used more effort in not killing seriyu than he did when he was killing monsters. So why is tatsu putting more effort by playing around equal to her using more power now??
 
>You mean just like we have no actual indication of how casual tatsu was outside just saying 'well she put more effort to equally tie her opponent' which then can literally be said about anything saitama does.

Indeed, i can say without any hesitation that she showed many more effort to fight Psykos in one panel than just lift an hand with a poker face. When you compare to saitama which doesn't, in any of his fight any indication of the casualness of his punches.

>Theres no actual indication tatsu was using more or less power than she did with the ship feat other than 'tatsu was having fun and playing around, so she didnt instantly murder psykos *who she wasnt trying to murder*

Casually lift a hand without any stress obviously took way less effort than what she did against Psykos, just like when she was surprised, attracted and put more effort than her 6-C feat, saying 'there is no indication' is false due to her action for her 6-C feat and against psykos, even it the 'having fun' wasn't even a part of my arguments this could surpringly be used against you actually, i could say that she found an opponent who can do a little more than what she already defeated casually.

>Your like conflating 'effort' with power used right now which is.... basically just he said she said at this point. Hell you even said that saitama used more effort in not killing seriyu than he did when he was killing monsters. So why is tatsu putting more effort by playing around equal to her using more power now??

I see, but you misunderstood (and my english too lol), what i wanted to say is Saitama was more casual against suiryu because he isn't dead due to Saitama showed to casually one shot opponent stronger than Suiryu itself (but you should anyway understood if you've readed entierly my sentence). to answer your last question, this is not the base of my argumentation, so dunno what was your point here, but yeah, putting more effort in power to fight psykos is indeed greater than casually lifting her hand to perform a 6-C feat.
 
I think that her 6-C Calc is wrong ? I saw Damage saying something about this. So before applying this, we should make a recalc

Also, it should be noted that she used a serum to Enhance her powers, maybe for some time, so a "post serum" key for this should be better
 
I have contacted M3X on his wall, apparently someone else was responsible for calcing the speed
 
Thanks

The statement about her being far more powerful than Gyoro is after or before the serum, Schnee ?

Because if it was before, a normal key being stronger than Gyoro, and the other "Post Serum" being comparable to a casual Tatsumaki, should work
 
@Dante

I think the elixir served to unleash her true power. She only got a "Threat level Dragon" text box after drinking it.
 
Well, i'm going to bed, i'll answer tomorrow if necessary (because i think there is more agreement for Psykos scaling to Casual Tats than against)

@Matt You should contact Ant before doing something i think.
 
@Matt

It makes sense, however both here and OPMWiki uses the Elixir as something that enhanced her powers, but in the end, it's the same thing. Her True Form scales higher than Gyoro Gyoro (Who's already Low 7-B+, so I guess it could be 7-B) and her "post serum/elixir" scales to a casual Tatsumaki, if it enhanced her power or just released, it could be just ignored putting just a "Post Serum" and "Fought casual Tatsumaki" as explanation, as we can't really tell what the serum did between those options
 
I'm pretty positive that Gyoro Gyoro by herself should be stronger than the Cadres or else she wouldn't boss / control them but that's more speculative.
 
She doesn't need to be stronger than the Cadre's when Orochi follows her orders. He's the reason most are willing to stay in the MA, not her.

As for elixir, I guess its okay to add a key for that if people really want it.
 
something like this:

At least Small City level+ (Able to pin down, harm and prevent Garou from moving before he adapted to her telekinesis, should be above other Dragon level threats) | City level (Said that her Gyoro Gyoro form doesn't even begin to compare to her now), Island level after drinking the elixir (Made Tatsumaki use more power against her then when she stopped Boros' Ship Missiles)
 
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