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One Punch Man: Sage Centipede and Evil Ocean Water High 6-A Upgrade

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It is what it is I guess

Profiles should look like this after the changes then:

Sage Centipede:

Continent level (Used his continental length to generate this level of energy. He is easily this powerful by sheer size alone, and can raise his whole body off the ground), likely at least Multi Continent level (Was tasked by God to defeat the "Abominable Fist that turned against God" alongside Evil Ocean Water which would make him far stronger than Psykorochi and Tatsumaki)

Evil Ocean Water:
Continent level (Able to severely harm Post Darkshine Garou with an Ocean Grand Cannon, who at the time could withstand attacks from Sage Centipede. Merged with the ocean and can release this much energy should all of the water fall back on Earth), likely at least Multi Continent level (Was tasked by God to defeat the "Abominable Fist that turned against God" alongside Sage Centipede which would make it far stronger than Psykorochi and Tatsumaki)

Garou:
At least Large town level (Stronger than before. Fought on par with a somewhat weakened Bomb before evolving), up to Continent level, likely at least Multi-Continent level with Reactive Evolution (Fought and harmed Sage Centipede. Could damage Sage Centipede when Metal Bat couldn't, and was stated to be vastly stronger than him), higher with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and severely damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Metal Bat’s Savage Hurricane. Punched through Sage Centipede and ripped out his regeneration core)

Continent level, likely at least Multi-Continent level (Sliced Sage Centipede in half. Grew even stronger after his monsterization increased and he transformed twice), up to Moon level with Reactive Evolution (After transforming once again, he slammed into the Earth, pushing the Earth's inner layers), Can ignore durability with Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist (A technique that produces devastating shockwaves capable of enveloping opponents and breaking their bones, even if they are as strong as Garou) and Fa Jin (Stated that these powerful attacks target the internal organs of his opponents, regardless of how tough their bones and flesh are)

Metal Bat:
At least Town level (Did better against Carnage Kabuto than an upgraded Genos in the VGS, but ultimately stood zero chance in this state), up to Continent level, likely at least Multi-Continent level with Fighting Spirit (Fought and pushed back Sage Centipede alongside Garou and later damaged Sage Centipede’s mandibles), higher with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Garou's Cross Dragon Fang Slayer Fist)


Would be much simpler and legible if staff accepted the obvious full rating but whatever
 
Man, what the hell? This is one of the most straightforward CTRs I've seen on this site and it's not even considered an entire ranking?

I've seen scales with much weaker justifications being used for the full scale.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Recon1511
The "At least 6-A" part comes from the pair of them demonstrably having 6-A feats/calcs.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to say that they having 6-A feats is irrelevant to the ratings in question, as anyone can calculate any of Tornado's or Psykos' feats and get results lower than High 6-A.

But that doesn't mean we're actually going to put those lower ratings in the profiles.

As for the proposal, I think it's unnecessary, Sage was already close to being High 6-A by its KE alone, surely just making him High 6-A and using that 6-A calc as a supporting feat wouldn't hurt anyone.

@Qawsedf234 @LordTracer What do you think? It's a plain "High 6-A" fine for these monsters?
 
Man I'm late, but I agree with a straight upgrade to High 6-A.
 
@Therefir; that's a fair perspective to have.

But personally I'd consider a 6-A feat slightly more important than a High 6-A bit of scaling. It would depend on context as always, and consistency is a factor too, but I personally wouldn't default to the latter being the most important rating. (Likewise if we had a case of a High 6-A feat and a 6-A bit of powerscaling; I wouldn't default to the bit of powerscaling automatically outweighting the feat just because it's lower).

If the character in question is close to High 6-A via feats, then a label of "At least 6-A" sounds right to me. If there is a bit of scaling that implies a High 6-A rating but does not confirm it then a "likely High 6-A" rating sounds fine to me.

Putting them together to get "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A" sounds like the most reasonable outcome to me to incorporate all the evidence.

I get if you have a different perspective on it, and that's fine, but that's the explanation for why I see it the way I see it.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Therefir; that's a fair perspective to have.

But personally I'd consider a 6-A feat slightly more important than a High 6-A bit of scaling. It would depend on context as always, and consistency is a factor too, but I personally wouldn't default to the latter being the most important rating. (Likewise if we had a case of a High 6-A feat and a 6-A bit of powerscaling; I wouldn't default to the bit of powerscaling automatically outweighting the feat just because it's lower).

If the character in question is close to High 6-A via feats, then a label of "At least 6-A" sounds right to me. If there is a bit of scaling that implies a High 6-A rating but does not confirm it then a "likely High 6-A" rating sounds fine to me.

Putting them together to get "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A" sounds like the most reasonable outcome to me to incorporate all the evidence.

I get if you have a different perspective on it, and that's fine, but that's the explanation for why I see it the way I see it.
Click to expand...
No. No no no, we’re not doing this
Doing a lesser feat is not an anti feat. If it was, then every time someone throws a punch without creating a shockwave that destroys everything in the damn town would be an anti feat.
Not to mention the fact that this literally doesn’t even matter because there is a 0.00001% chance that Sage centipede is weaker than Orochi at best, so he can’t even be below high 6-A.
I am just going to have to say that your viewpoint right now is not valid in the slightest.
 
@ZillertheBucko I'm not saying a "lesser feat is an antifeat". That's not my position.

If you think my argument is along the lines of "then every time someone throws a punch without creating a shockwave that destroys everything in the damn town would be an anti feat." Then I think you've misunderstood me.
 
Damage3245 said:
@ZillertheBucko I'm not saying a "lesser feat is an antifeat". That's not my position.

If you think my argument is along the lines of "then every time someone throws a punch without creating a shockwave that destroys everything in the damn town would be an anti feat." Then I think you've misunderstood me.
Click to expand...
It’s coming off as that it can’t be a full rating because his 6-A is more consistent therefore it must be a likely rating
if your issue is with the evidence itself, then at least explain why.
 
Yeah I disagree with the notion that lower feats take priority over sound enough scaling.

However, the argument seems to be more along the lines of questioning whether that scaling is sound enough- I'm iffy on that, too, but I don't find it to be entirely unreasonable. I think a "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A" rating is more reasonable than some people are treating it as, at least, but personally I think just outright "High 6-A" is fine, too.
 
Confidence scaling is amped by a reliable source
God created Psykorochi, Sage Centipede, Ocean water, and even attacked Tatsumaki directly
Sage centipede was formed directly from Orochi’s remains, in the very same room that prophecized that he would be sacrificed by the fist that turned against god, the same fist that Sage and Ocean were made specifically to kill (by god)
 
I don't dispute that, though I think a couple of those points are kinda silly (being made from X corpse does not give evidence to being comparable to X; attacking someone directly does not necessarily imply the ability to fight them evenly)- I don't have any particular issue personally with High 6-A outright, I just don't seem to feel as strongly about it as the general consensus and find Damage's proposal to be basically harmless.
 
Yeah, the points that have been raised imply a scaling which is why I'm more fine with a "Likely High 6-A" than a "Possibly High 6-A". I'm not saying you guys are making baseless assertions here.

I just think that an "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A" rating is more accurate based on what's been presented - unless there's any additional evidence I've overlooked.
 
Well, I don't see reason to keep arguing for hours since the CRT is basically accepted, a full rating would have made the wording on the profiles less complicated but oh well...

Can the changes be applied?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I don't dispute that, though I think a couple of those points are kinda silly (being made from X corpse does not give evidence to being comparable to X
Click to expand...
It’s more so a case of the author putting it in there because they trust the readers’ intelligence enough to know they don’t have to say “wow Sage centipede is even stronger than Orochi” when they show the remnants of Orochi in front of god’s mural after he was one shot by saitama starting to glow with the power of God and then summon a monster the size of a continent who says he’s going to kill the guy who turned against god
Doesn’t seem so silly to me.
 
So far we've got LordTracer is favor of a full High 6-A rating.

Maverick and myself in favor of "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A".

And Mr. Bambu who is fine with either.

If you want to add it in, you can, or you can wait for more staff.
 
Damage3245 said:
So far we've got LordTracer is favor of a full High 6-A rating.

Maverick and myself in favor of "At least 6-A, likely High 6-A".

And Mr. Bambu who is fine with either.

If you want to add it in, you can, or you can wait for more staff.
Click to expand...
So it's 2-2 in staff votes + the non-staff members agreeing with the full rating

If I were to add this, do we settle for a full rating or just "likely" ?

I can wait for more staff but I think there are like 6 here already and I don't want to bother more people than necessary
 
Recon1511 said:
So it's 2-2 in staff votes + the non-staff members agreeing with the full rating

If I were to add this, do we settle for a full rating or just "likely" ?

I can wait for more staff but I think there are like 6 here already and I don't want to bother more people than necessary
Click to expand...
I'd technically consider it more 2-3 in staff votes technically (considering Mr. Bambu is fine with either proposition).

I'll tag @Qawsedf234 to comment, if you'd like a more decisive vote.

Qaws, can you go through the thread and the proposals please?
 
Garou also recognized Sage’s regen core as being Orochi’s which is more confirmation that he was directly created from him


Also narratively it’s a lot cleaner since the moment Garou perfected his fist and defeats the strongest being from the monster association there’s no one to stand in his way, which from a writing standpoint would be the best time for his final battle against saitama. It being “woohoo I beat a guy who’s like 200 times weaker than Orochi, now nobody can stand in my way” is just 🗿
 
Damage3245 said:
I'd technically consider it more 2-3 in staff votes technically (considering Mr. Bambu is fine with either proposition).

I'll tag @Qawsedf234 to comment, if you'd like a more decisive vote.

Qaws, can you go through the thread and the proposals please?
Click to expand...
It's overall weird to me. My opinions are as follows:
  • The scaling to Tornado doesn't work to me because by the time Sage and ENO came she was heavily injured and wouldn't stand much of a chance against them
  • Being made of Orochi isn't the same as being as strong as Orochi
There's also the issue with God giving people powers since he varies from 7-B to 4-A in terms of given energy. The latter is the bigger part since if God knew about Saitama and knew about Blast then why would he send a Tier 6 anyways? They never in any capacity stood a chance against someone remotely on Blast's level.

I do think scaling to Orochi can work since SG was strong enough to put Garou > Orochi in Saitama's mind but a solid rating relies basically only on that since the rest are statements from a character with no known validity and confidence scaling which is rarely solid on its own.

So I'm fine with "Likely at least High 6-A" or something. EDIT: To finish my sentence, if Saitama's singular statement is enough to say that SC would be ~ Orochi then I wouldn't be against it, it's just that's the only real statement I see working.
 
Full rating bros... we lost
982.jpg
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It's overall weird to me. My opinions are as follows:
  • The scaling to Tornado doesn't work to me because by the time Sage and ENO came she was heavily injured and wouldn't stand much of a chance against them
  • Being made of Orochi isn't the same as being as strong as Orochi
There's also the issue with God giving people powers since he varies from 7-B to 4-A in terms of given energy. The latter is the bigger part since if God knew about Saitama and knew about Blast then why would he send a Tier 6 anyways? They never in any capacity stood a chance against someone remotely on Blast's level.

I do think scaling to Orochi can work since SG was strong enough to put Garou > Orochi in Saitama's mind but a solid rating relies basically only on that since the rest are statements from a character with no known validity and confidence scaling which is rarely solid on its own.

So I'm fine with "Likely at least High 6-A" or something.
Click to expand...
Disappointing but anyways
if you admit that sending a tier 6 against a tier 4 wouldn’t make sense, then that just means God never knew saitama’s full power, just that the fist who turned against god was someone who was strong enough to destroy Orochi
And yes, tatsumaki became fodder after the fight, which just proves that tatsumaki was never suspected as being the fist against god in god in the first place, and he knew that someone stronger beat the fusion (which he was directly responsible for by the way, so it would be very easy for him to have put more power into creating sagepede immediately after seeing that his last minion failed)
Also Blast only fought God once (when he was elder centipede level) and then after that kinda just started collecting his cubes, so he doesn’t count for anything here

And being made out of Orochi is just painfully OBVIOUS author intent. It’s literally just taking Orochi’s remains and putting the power of God into it. On top of that the prophecy already dictated that Orochi would be sacrificed to begin with.
Sage centipede is 100% stronger than Orochi, there is 0 room for doubt.
 
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