One-Punch Man: Dragon Level Monsters Upgrade

[Kachon123]

You're saying that "A 7-A crater isn't enough for a Mysterious Being to be rated Dragon level. This is because Dragon level Mysterious Beings can produce even bigger craters than the 7-A crater."

I'm saying that Dragon level monsters would have to scale above the energy output of the entire crater, as that level of power was not enough to grant Beefcake a dragon threat level.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm saying that Dragon level monsters would have to scale above the energy output of the entire crater, as that level of power was not enough to grant Beefcake a dragon threat level.

But that "Level of power" isn't accomplished by a being with 7-A energy output. That level of power was created by a being with 7-B energy output.

So even if we accepted, "All Dragon level threats are superior to the being that made that crater, because that being is a Demon level threat", that would still put the Dragon level threats above a being with 7-B energy output.

 

[AKM sama]

@Qawsedf234 Are you okay with the changes that have been made so far being reverted?

While I do think this thread was hastily applied in a matter of few hours even before any chance for any opposition to comment, we can just halt any kind of editing for now. Don't make the changes now or don't undo them until the discussion is properly completed. You guys can complete whatever editing is required afterwards.

 

[Damage3245]

While I do think this thread was hastily applied in a matter of few hours even before any chance for any opposition to comment, we can just halt any kind of editing for now. Don't make the changes now or don't undo them until the discussion is properly completed. You guys can complete whatever editing is required afterwards.

Okay. That's fine with me.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

But that "Level of power" isn't accomplished by a being with 7-A energy output. That level of power was created by a being with 7-B energy output.

So even if we accepted, "All Dragon level threats are superior to the being that made that crater, because that being is a Demon level threat", that would still put the Dragon level threats above a being with 7-B energy output.

I'm saying that Dragon level monsters would have to scale above the energy output of the entire crater, as that level of power was not enough to grant Beefcake a dragon threat level.

Which chapter shows furher ugly’s threat level?

 

[AKM sama]

This is a bit of a strawman because the argument is more that they’re stronger, not necessarily that they can make a bigger crater. Again with the whole AP =/= DC dilemma

The argument for this upgrade is that

"People saw the crater (destruction) and said Dragon level could do better"

It basically means that the people evaluating the disaster level of monsters are judging based on destructive capacity, by which logic, any Dragon level monster would be able to make a bigger crater. By this logic, if another monster like Beefcake made a bigger crater with 100 punches, the people will be like

"oh that crater is bigger than Beefcake's so let's rate this new monster higher"

even if the AP of a single punch would be lower than Beefcake's.

 

[Damage3245]

The quote from the author actually really works against the basis of this CRT.

Let's examine this, okay?:

ONE: If Saitama wasn't there, the damage done by Marugori will increase and his disaster level will be upgraded to dragon

What does ONE say will happen here?

Without Saitama's intervention, Marugori will continue to cause destruction and his Disaster level will be upgraded to Dragon level.

Is it stated that Marugori will increase in power? No.

All that is stated is that the damage done by him will increase.

Which means that Marugori would have been upgraded to a Dragon level threat while his Attack Potency is still 13.822 Megatons AKA City level.

Which means this argument that all Dragon level threats must inherently possess AP surpassing the total energy required to creater the crater... is wrong.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The quote from the author actually really works against the basis of this CRT.

Let's examine this, okay?:



What does ONE say will happen here?

Without Saitama's intervention, Marugori will continue to cause destruction and his Disaster level will be upgraded to Dragon level.

Is it stated that Marugori will increase in power? No.

All that is stated is that the damage done by him will increase.

Which means that Marugori would have been upgraded to a Dragon level threat while his Attack Potency is still 13.822 Megatons AKA City level.

Which means this argument that all Dragon level threats must inherently possess AP surpassing the total energy required to creater the crater... is wrong.

no shit, I’ve agreed with this for a while now
regardless, if a dragon level gets their rating before actually attacking or anything, or just get it from fighting a hero or something, then they’d scale above the full value anyways since it’s not the “destruction over time” rating

 

[Damage3245]

no shit, I’ve agreed with this for a while now
regardless, if a dragon level gets their rating before actually attacking or anything, or just get it from fighting a hero or something, then they’d scale above the full value anyways since it’s not the “destruction over time” rating

No. ONE's quote actually proves that it is a "destruction over time" rating. He says that over time, more damage will be done, so Marugori will get his threat level bumped up.

That inherently means that trying to scale random Dragon level threats to the full crater is wrong.

 

[AKM sama]

That quote from ONE feels like the threat levels are decided purely based on the level of destruction (that can be done over a period of time) and not AP, which is a serious flaw if we use that threat level scaling for our AP scaling.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

No. ONE's quote actually proves that it is a "destruction over time" rating. He says that over time, more damage will be done, so Marugori will get his threat level bumped up.

That inherently means that trying to scale random Dragon level threats to the full crater is wrong.

You wildly missed the point.
I’m saying that something that has a dragon rating in a single (or less than 8) attacks would be quantifiably scaling above beefcake
the end

 

[Damage3245]

You wildly missed the point.
I’m saying that something that has a dragon rating in a single (or less than 8) attacks would be quantifiably scaling above beefcake
the end

And I'm saying you're incorrect.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And I'm saying you're incorrect.

Your argument literally has nothing to do with what I said, you were just making the same counterargument you made to Kachon, the argument that I didn’t make
do you expect me to be able to respond to something that doesn’t even pertain to what I said??

 

[AKM sama]

I’m saying that something that has a dragon rating in a single (or less than 8) attacks would be quantifiably scaling above beefcake

That's not what the OP is saying. The OP is saying that any Dragon level would scale above the DC of the crater.

 

[Maitreya12]

That statement doesn't say that the crater feat is not enough for him to be raised to Dragon level.

This CRT is taking an approach that is too overly simplistic.

It's saying Marugori's Crater Feat = Demon level

Dragon level > Demon level

Therefore all Dragon level monsters > Marugori's Crater Feat.

Which I consider to be highly suspect powerscaling that ignores any and all context.

Also, who says that a Dragon level monster could even re-create that crater in one attack?

Even if we accepted that a Demon level monster could create that amount of damage in eight hits... That doesn't prove that a Dragon level monster could do it in one hit.

This CRT requires some serious re-evaluation.

Imma take a little bit of a hot take here and say I find these arguments to be more compelling. But I’m neutral I guess.

Although I really do wanna get OPM out of 7B hell

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That's not what the OP is saying. The OP is saying that any Dragon level would scale above the DC of the crater.

Ok? What are people obsessed with what the OP is saying?
I’ve made it clear that I’m using different logic here.

 

[LordTracer]

Although I really do wanna get OPM out of 7B hell

It took so much to get OPM to 7-B in the first place smh

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It took so much to get OPM to 7-B in the first place smh

This is why we just need to allow calc stacking and things become simple

 

[Recon1511]

No, we keep this open and find the scans showing dragon levels having their threat rated

That doesn't change anything but k

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That doesn't change anything but k

Read the context and maybe you would know what it changes
or just read my latest posts

 

[Maitreya12]

It took so much to get OPM to 7-B in the first place smh

I don’t mean it like that.

I mean stuff like having human Garou at 7B and the sleeping Monster Garou who fought Bang at also 7B.

It’s pain to see

 

[Recon1511]

Also Ziller you haven't even read the manga beyond what the anime covered so idk what are you doing here ngl

 

[ZillertheBucko]

no shit, I’ve agreed with this for a while now
regardless, if a dragon level gets their rating before actually attacking or anything, or just get it from fighting a hero or something, then they’d scale above the full value anyways since it’s not the “destruction over time” rating

You wildly missed the point.
I’m saying that something that has a dragon rating in a single (or less than 8) attacks would be quantifiably scaling above beefcake
the end

This

 

[Damage3245]

Ok? What are people obsessed with what the OP is saying?
I’ve made it clear that I’m using different logic here.

Because this is the OP's thread?

They're the primary arguments that have to be addressed. If you're proposing something different, then propose it in your own thread.

 

[Kachon123]

That quote from ONE feels like the threat levels are decided purely based on the level of destruction (that can be done over a period of time) and not AP, which is a serious flaw if we use that threat level scaling for our AP scaling.

Which means this argument that all Dragon level threats must inherently possess AP surpassing the total energy required to creater the crater... is wrong.

Then make a CRT to remove AP disaster level scaling. With the way we use disaster levels, this is a sound way of scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

Then make a CRT to remove AP disaster level scaling. With the way we use disaster levels, this is a sound way of scaling.

Sure, that'll be next.

First thing's first is rejecting this thread.

 

[Kachon123]

First thing's first is rejecting this thread.

That would actually be second.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also Ziller you haven't even read the manga beyond what the anime covered so idk what are you doing here ngl

I’m in the process of reading it and am at chapter 80
which still doesn’t matter, I know enough about it to contribute to this crt

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Because this is the OP's thread?

They're the primary arguments that have to be addressed. If you're proposing something different, then propose it in your own thread.

Well firstly, I actually created the arguments in the OP, Kachon’s just the one who decided to put it into a crt
Two, it’s practically the same proposal, so it doesn’t even matter what argument is used if it has the same end point
You are just making shit up, there is no rule that says this thread needs to be closed just because the argument has changed

 

[Damage3245]

That would actually be second.

This thread's arguments have been debunked. By your own source in fact.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This thread's arguments have been debunked. By your own source in fact.

And the arguments have changed, so closing it would be obtuse and just a waste of time and effort

 

[Kachon123]

This thread's arguments have been debunked. By your own source in fact.

No it hasn't?

 

[Damage3245]

@LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @ByAsura @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234 @Phoenks I'd like your response to this post please.

I'm taking from AKM's posts that AKM agrees with what I've said.

 

[Qawsedf234]

1 staff member can't overrule 4.

It would be two and the current claim is that the calc being uses is incorrect. They we need to respond to clarify if if agree agree that or not..

But as Damage said 12 hours for such a universal upgrade is not enough time for a CRT.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

@LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @ByAsura @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234 @Phoenks I'd like your response to this post please.

I'm taking from AKM's posts that AKM agrees with what I've said.

Don’t forget to read MY arguments as well
+ I still need to find the scans I’m looking for

 

[Recon1511]

Don’t forget to read MY arguments as well
+ I still need to find the scans I’m looking for

Here are the scans, again, it changes nothing it just gives the Dragon Disaster Level to the cadres

 

[Qawsedf234]

That quote from ONE feels like the threat levels are decided purely based on the level of destruction (that can be done over a period of time) and not AP, which is a serious flaw if we use that threat level scaling for our AP scaling.

Threat levels are based on how much a single thing can impact the function or survivability of a group of people, a city, multiple cities or all of humanity. You can be a Dragon level threat by having some wide AoE ability or by being strong enough that you'll be able the threaten multiple cities.

 

[AKM sama]

@LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @ByAsura @Maverick_Zero_X @Qawsedf234 @Phoenks I'd like your response to this post please.

Btw, I don't know if you noticed or not, but Phoenks is a content mod in FCOC wiki. He doesn't hold any staff position in VSBW. I just thought I'd make it clear.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Here are the scans, again, it changes nothing it just gives the Dragon Disaster Level to the cadres

And with this, 7-A is real again
EZ

 

[Damage3245]

Btw, I don't know if you noticed or not, but Phoenks is a content mod in FCOC wiki. He doesn't hold any staff position in VSBW. I just thought I'd make it clear.

Ah, fair enough. Just saw that he'd agreed to it.