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It was deemed an outlier because for multiple years there wasn't any feats by non-God tiers that were close to it. When we got other showings that were comparable to it, then the feat became useable.
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One-Punch Man CRT! Big Updates!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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- Tags
- one-punch man saitama
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You are saying that without actually proving anything. "There's no indication" isn't a proof, its your baseless assumption. I know that Psykos and Orochi fusion amplified their powers, I never denied that. But how does this help your argument?
Again, I am not saying those blasts aren't serious, I am saying that you don't have proof to scale those smaller blasts to High 6-A, one of those literally hit the ground and destroyed only a building.
Genos is irrelevant here.
You serious? You are making an assumption that those blasts scale and you are the one who must bring proofs, not me. And so far, you haven't brought a single proof as to why those beams scale. Again you say that they literally do scale to high 6-a in other instance but again you don't bring proofs.
BTW, this I think warrants as proof for how smaller blasts are insignificant compared to big one.
And I repeat again, God gifted Homeless Emperor with Energy Manipulation that doesn't scale to his other stats.
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BTW, this I think warrants as proof.
I'm pretty sure this is one of Orochi's dragons beam. Not Psykos' one. Every single one fired from Psykos seemed to be ridiculously strong.
I'm pretty sure this is one of Orochi's dragons beam. Not Psykos' one. Every single one fired from Psykos seemed to be ridiculously strong.
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How does it prove your argument at all? Tatsumaki has countered and withstood these blasts, which don't explode, who has also matched her telekinetic power. This points to them being equal to her telekinetic power. There's evidence against your arguments and nothing for them.
Those were Orochi's blasts, Psykos was using telekinesis in the fight.
You haven't given proof as to why they don't scale, even though it's blatantly obvious.
Psykos' energy blasts aren't Homeless Emperor's or Vaccine Man's. They're energy beams and can be clashed with. She even has to put more power into them to overcome Genos' attack.
Those were Orochi's blasts, Psykos was using telekinesis in the fight.
You haven't given proof as to why they don't scale, even though it's blatantly obvious.
Psykos' energy blasts aren't Homeless Emperor's or Vaccine Man's. They're energy beams and can be clashed with. She even has to put more power into them to overcome Genos' attack.
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I agree that Blasts from Psykorochi herself are high 6-A.
I don't know what you are referring to right now, I would appreciate if you quote and reply to what I write specifically.
Tatsumaki never withstood high 6-a blasts, aside from questionable first feat and the last feat where she redirected it, I already addressed it and I pointed out that you don't need the same potency to redirect that energy blast with TK.
Psykos's TK isn't high 6-a, unless you prove of course. There's no evidence to prove your argument, I don't need to prove anything. You are the one claiming that High 6-A scales to things, prove it, please.
TK =/= God Blast.
You haven't proven as to why those scale.
Vaccine Man has nothing to do here.
My point with Homeless Emperor is to point out that Gods power bestowal doesn't scale to other stats.
So far, I literally don't see a reason for why High 6-A scales to everything. Just your opinion and baseless assumptions, not only that you even ask me to prove something when its you who has to prove things.
I am not going to waste my time debating with you in circles, either bring actual proofs or stop.
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You're the one who need to give proof instead of wasting everyone's time on something that's otherwise unanimously agreed upon. Tatsumaki withstanding and deflecting the same blast is more than enough.
I brought up Vaccine Man because his blasts are the same as HE's. It doesn't matter, though.
By the way, the blast Fusion Pyskos used to cut that landmass is an enhanced form of an own power she had, not Orochi's, meaning they're psychokinetic powers.
I brought up Vaccine Man because his blasts are the same as HE's. It doesn't matter, though.
By the way, the blast Fusion Pyskos used to cut that landmass is an enhanced form of an own power she had, not Orochi's, meaning they're psychokinetic powers.
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> Sorry for not keeping up with OPM threads, but what's wrong with scaling Genos' physicals and all Dragon level threats to Genos' Jet Drive Arrow? Even if you think that Genos was holding back against Garou, his strength was stated to be on par with Tank Top Master.
They're completely separate things. Genos' physicals have nothing to do with the force of the Jet Drive Arrow.
Tank Top Master has nothing close to being equal to the Jet Drive Arrow either, so I don't see the point of that comparison.
They're completely separate things. Genos' physicals have nothing to do with the force of the Jet Drive Arrow.
Tank Top Master has nothing close to being equal to the Jet Drive Arrow either, so I don't see the point of that comparison.
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These upgrades are beautiful. I agree.
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Can you quote and address my points? Or else I feel like you are not paying enough respect to this.
And again, I repeat for a hundredth time, I am not the one who needs to prove something, its You. Unanimous agreement of fans and supporters of the verse isn't exactly the most objective.
Literally doesn't warrant High 6-A, you like it or not. If you think it does, explain in details.
Aside from looks of energy blasts I don't know what connects these two.
That was literally an energy blast, what you are saying right now is again a baseless assumption. Her energy beam was a Gods gift.
After she fired it she said smth like "This is my new power?!" and then "Was that guy who appeared during the fusion real" meaning that Blast was his gift, God's gift and his power doesn't scale to other stats, because, first, Homeless Emperor exists, second, there's literally no other proofs of to why it should scale.
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I am addressing your points, I just don't need to quote and split them apart.
Simple: Tatsumaki withstood this blast that sliced (not exploded) a portion of the Earth without being damaged, meaning her durability literally scales. How can I make this more simple? Also, Genos being able to match her beams, with Orochi even struggling to overcome it, is proof. Your arguments rely on stone walling rather than evidence.
I just said Vaccine Man is irrelevant, so you don't need to go on about that. The actual point was that your Homeless Emperor comparison was completely wrong.
She was talking about her massively elevated power level. Again, Homeless Emperor has nothing to do with this because his blasts are way different (though they are similar to the dragon heads).
Now, I'm in the middle of a bunch of other threads and have to do work. I'm just going to stop arguing here because I'm sure someone else will.
Simple: Tatsumaki withstood this blast that sliced (not exploded) a portion of the Earth without being damaged, meaning her durability literally scales. How can I make this more simple? Also, Genos being able to match her beams, with Orochi even struggling to overcome it, is proof. Your arguments rely on stone walling rather than evidence.
I just said Vaccine Man is irrelevant, so you don't need to go on about that. The actual point was that your Homeless Emperor comparison was completely wrong.
She was talking about her massively elevated power level. Again, Homeless Emperor has nothing to do with this because his blasts are way different (though they are similar to the dragon heads).
Now, I'm in the middle of a bunch of other threads and have to do work. I'm just going to stop arguing here because I'm sure someone else will.
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Tornado stopping a beam and tossing it, then right after shattering Neuron Psykos' barrier is enough reason for her to scale on this site. She also previously withstood the beam so it's not like it's an inconsistency either.
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Shouldn't Genos also have Danmaku?
Furthermore, Orochi should still have the martial art he copied from Garou and I think it is better to have a key to Psykos than to create another profile.
Furthermore, Orochi should still have the martial art he copied from Garou and I think it is better to have a key to Psykos than to create another profile.
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I don't think Genos quite has the firepower for Danmaku, though that always been a weird power/ability to me.
Nullflowerblush
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Irrelevant to the current topic, but I feel Garou's keys should be built like this: "Human Garou | Half-Monster (initially) | Half-Monster (Limiter Breaking) | Awakened Garou".
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So in other words you want Pre-Darkshine fight Garou and Post-Darkshine fight Garou to be separate keys?
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Vaccine Man is explictly the strongest monster humanity ever faced up until that point, as per the Bonus Chapter.
It's possible that some Cadres are stronger than him but it's vague.
Only Top Tier Dragons should be 7-B. As many of them have feats on that scale.
Nullflowerblush
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The OP does, I'm indifferent.
Their reasoning behind it is the fact that Garou engaged in a few fights in-between his one with Superalloy Darkshine and Golden Sperm.
To me, Half-Monster Garou's key kind of split at the end of Chapter 127; The narrator announces that Garou's limiter is beginning to break and even more of his clothes merging with his chest, which signifies a change in his body.
Their reasoning behind it is the fact that Garou engaged in a few fights in-between his one with Superalloy Darkshine and Golden Sperm.
To me, Half-Monster Garou's key kind of split at the end of Chapter 127; The narrator announces that Garou's limiter is beginning to break and even more of his clothes merging with his chest, which signifies a change in his body.
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So, I can count at least 13, this on a single arm, does this not fit in Danmaku?
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It's a physical attack. All of the force from the jet drive arrow propulsion was sending Genos' foot into Elder Centipede's tooth until the tooth broke. TTM was stated to be comparable to Genos in power.
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It requires rocket propulsion. TTM is comparable to Genos' regular strikes and not his named attacks.
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Aside from what Matthew said, which is correct, the Jet Drive Arrow happened far after Garou's comparison of Genos to Tank Top Master. He wasn't comparing that feat to TTM.
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Unless I'm misreading it we're only giving them a possibly rating, not an outright tier change.
As for Neuron Psykos I think it works better as a key than a new page as well.
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Nonetheless, Garou hadn't seen everything that Genos was capable of. So why would he be referring to an attack that Genos used later on as the standard to compare TTM to?
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- Thread starter
- #107
Sorry, I was a sleep for a lot of these replies.
I read through some but im still not completely updated on what's happened.
Was the Jet Drive Arrow scaling declined?
Do you guys agree with the Garou keys being split?
Should psyrochi be a new page or a new key?
I read through some but im still not completely updated on what's happened.
Was the Jet Drive Arrow scaling declined?
Do you guys agree with the Garou keys being split?
Should psyrochi be a new page or a new key?
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If we do make the Darkshine fight its own key... could we call it Pre-awakening? It sounds nicer.
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Garou was capable of harming Genos whose physical durability scales to the Jet Drive Arrow via Newton's Third Law. He scales at the very least.
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The thing about Garou harming Genos- I looked through the fight and it doesn't necessarily have to be the case. If I remember we see two attacks from Garou that affect Genos. No.1 is the WRSF flying knee that buries Genos and No.2 is the time Garou removes Genos's arm. No.1 is stated by Garou to be an attempt to lure him in "The bastard buried himself!" and I think Genos also allowed Garou to take his arm off in order to take him by surprise when the arm was still remote controlled.
While I think that is a solid guess, arguing that Genos allowed Garou to remove his arm (and maybe detached it for him) is still somewhat conjectural so I can understand if you would disagree.
While I think that is a solid guess, arguing that Genos allowed Garou to remove his arm (and maybe detached it for him) is still somewhat conjectural so I can understand if you would disagree.
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Yes.
Potentially yes. I think maybe a key for each new power-up would be good.
Key.
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I don't think we should just jump to 7-A for some characters because they are stronger than a 7-B, Genos is 83 Megatons, I know, but that isn't so close to baseline 7-A to the point that scalling far higher gives you a new Tier, there's 17 Megatons
I agree with the overall scalling and stuff, but 7-A people should be "At least 7-B+, possibly/likely higher" or something like that
I agree with the overall scalling and stuff, but 7-A people should be "At least 7-B+, possibly/likely higher" or something like that
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That’s only a 1.2x difference from baseline 7-A though. Not saying I agree or disagree with the JDA scaling, just saying that the calc is close enough for upscaling to be possible.
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Has anyone done this yet? That is, tell the calcer to mention all calculated values at the end of the blog in a conclusion section and bold and make it clear which one is accepted.
Also, which points have been accepted and which ones are still being debated? A summary would be nice to keep the thread on track and not let it spiral out.
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In defense of JDA, those who have rejected it have done so because they consider it an outlier in three respects. 1) Genos should not be that strong, 2) Elder Centipede should not be so durable 3) the calc is an outlier compared to other dragon level threat calcs. Let me address these points.
1) Genos should not be that strong when he fights Elder Centipede - Genos has had at least 4 upgrades and possibly as many as 10 (https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/51473/how-many-times-was-genos-upgraded) between his EC fight and Beginning of Series and these upgrades are generally featless and only scale to characters who scale off of Genos, so they only upscale vaguely. This ambiguity means that we can reasonably assume Genos is anywhere from 7-A to High 7-C by the time he fights Elder Centipede. If you lowball Genos and say each of the four major upgrades was a 1.5X increase, Genos would still be High 7-C at 858 kilotons. But if you highball Genos and say there were 10 upgrades (based on the manga visuals) and each was x2, he would be 115 megatons or 7-A. Before you say that's an unreasonable highball, is going from High 7-C to 7-B over 4-10 upgrades more of an outlier than going from "at least High 7-C" to High 6-A with Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon in a single upgrade? Genos has been upgraded so often that there's no concrete narrative nor mathematical reason he can't be strong enough to break a high dragon's tooth at this point.
2) Elder Centipede is not that strong of a Dragon Level Threat - Elder Centipede is all about durability and survivability and he excels in those two categories. According to Gyoro Gyoro, only 4 S-class heroes could possibly defeat him, all of whom are far superior to ordinary dragon level threats. Even a duo of High Dragons like Bang and Bomb stand no chance against his overwhelming durability + crazy regeneration. As Gyoro Gyoro argues (stick around and S-class heroes will give you broken bones, Gouketsu) and most will agree, other high dragons like Gouketsu and Vaccine Man could be overwhelmed by numerous heroes as strong as Bomb and Bang. There's no reason Elder Centipede isn't in the same ballpark as some of the other more powerful dragons, although it merits this rank by durability and survivability as opposed to speed and power.
3) this calc is an outlier among dragon level calcs - The lowest dragon level calc I could find was Beefcake's canon height LE, followed by Vaccine Man's explosion. The Beefcake 270 m LE was high 7-C and the Vaccine Man bomb was 7-B. If we want to talk about outliers, I would mention Geryuganshoop, Pluton and the Meteor which have 6-C, 6-C and High 7-A calcs respectively. Other dragon level calcs have LE's in the 7-B range and high ends in the 7-A range very close to JDA. Namely, Gouketsu. His LE cloud feat is 7-B/33 megatons (notably lower than JDA), his ME is 7-B+/94 megatons (10 megatons higher than JDA) and his HE is 7-A+/846 megatons. Similarly, Beefcake's calcs for his depicted height (although his canon height is 270m, he is drawn between 2000-3000m in most shots) give 7-A and 6-C results. Therefore, dragon range calcs range from High 7-C at the very lowest end, to 7-B on most LEs to 7-A and 6-C for many different calcs. Just because our current ratings are 7-B and low 7-B does not mean it is impossible that many higher end dragon level threats could be 7-B+ or even 7-A. Our calculations certainly support the possibility.
1) Genos should not be that strong when he fights Elder Centipede - Genos has had at least 4 upgrades and possibly as many as 10 (https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/51473/how-many-times-was-genos-upgraded) between his EC fight and Beginning of Series and these upgrades are generally featless and only scale to characters who scale off of Genos, so they only upscale vaguely. This ambiguity means that we can reasonably assume Genos is anywhere from 7-A to High 7-C by the time he fights Elder Centipede. If you lowball Genos and say each of the four major upgrades was a 1.5X increase, Genos would still be High 7-C at 858 kilotons. But if you highball Genos and say there were 10 upgrades (based on the manga visuals) and each was x2, he would be 115 megatons or 7-A. Before you say that's an unreasonable highball, is going from High 7-C to 7-B over 4-10 upgrades more of an outlier than going from "at least High 7-C" to High 6-A with Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon in a single upgrade? Genos has been upgraded so often that there's no concrete narrative nor mathematical reason he can't be strong enough to break a high dragon's tooth at this point.
2) Elder Centipede is not that strong of a Dragon Level Threat - Elder Centipede is all about durability and survivability and he excels in those two categories. According to Gyoro Gyoro, only 4 S-class heroes could possibly defeat him, all of whom are far superior to ordinary dragon level threats. Even a duo of High Dragons like Bang and Bomb stand no chance against his overwhelming durability + crazy regeneration. As Gyoro Gyoro argues (stick around and S-class heroes will give you broken bones, Gouketsu) and most will agree, other high dragons like Gouketsu and Vaccine Man could be overwhelmed by numerous heroes as strong as Bomb and Bang. There's no reason Elder Centipede isn't in the same ballpark as some of the other more powerful dragons, although it merits this rank by durability and survivability as opposed to speed and power.
3) this calc is an outlier among dragon level calcs - The lowest dragon level calc I could find was Beefcake's canon height LE, followed by Vaccine Man's explosion. The Beefcake 270 m LE was high 7-C and the Vaccine Man bomb was 7-B. If we want to talk about outliers, I would mention Geryuganshoop, Pluton and the Meteor which have 6-C, 6-C and High 7-A calcs respectively. Other dragon level calcs have LE's in the 7-B range and high ends in the 7-A range very close to JDA. Namely, Gouketsu. His LE cloud feat is 7-B/33 megatons (notably lower than JDA), his ME is 7-B+/94 megatons (10 megatons higher than JDA) and his HE is 7-A+/846 megatons. Similarly, Beefcake's calcs for his depicted height (although his canon height is 270m, he is drawn between 2000-3000m in most shots) give 7-A and 6-C results. Therefore, dragon range calcs range from High 7-C at the very lowest end, to 7-B on most LEs to 7-A and 6-C for many different calcs. Just because our current ratings are 7-B and low 7-B does not mean it is impossible that many higher end dragon level threats could be 7-B+ or even 7-A. Our calculations certainly support the possibility.
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For Gouketsu, we accepted the Low End calc out of an abundance of caution, not because it was proven to be more correct than the mid or high-ends, might I add.
