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One Piece speed downgrade (revised)
- Thread starter Floxy178
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Then can you please ask them to write if they're interested in thread or notYes. I am a bit disappointed that we have not received any help since I asked for it.
? I just want to know if there's a reason to wait since maybe no other CGM's interested in this.
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Can we start counting the votes now? It seems like waiting for more CGMs is pointless when they don't want to comment on this thread.
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Antvasima, It seems like no one else willing to comment on this thread. Can we start counting votes since only Mr.Bambu and CloverDragon replied and said that they aren't interested in HST threads?Yes. I am a bit disappointed that we have not received any help since I asked for it.
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@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @TheRustyOne @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Agnaa @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa @Flashlight237 @SeijiSetto @SunDaGamer
We really need some input help here.
We really need some input help here.
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Haven't really started on One Piece yet... probably going to take a long time for that. I didn't think such a popular verse would struggle for so hard.
What exactly needs to be done right now?
What exactly needs to be done right now?
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Antvasima wants more CGM comments on calculation corrections
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Inputs on this
So in short because of huge derailing happened in this thread, it was suggested to open a new one with revised arguments.
Now I'll ask non-staff members to avoid writing in this thread unless they have arguments to present. Please do not write comments like agree, disagree, etc.
First Calc
Re-Calc of Sanji dodging Queen's laser (again)
vsbattles.fandom.com
First issue of original calc is that distance from Queen to Sanji's foot is used. For using this, at the end of the Sanji's movement, Queen's lasers shouldn't be able to cross that distance. However at the end of Sanji's movement Sanji will already in a position that lasers won't be a threat for him. That's why I'll use distance from Queen to Sanji's head/ground.
I also want to address that radius of explosion doesn't matter here since explosion also has a certain speed, there is no need to act like it happens instantly.
The other issue is Sanji's movement distance. Sanji doing first 90 degree movement for repositioning is kind of highball since he would almost face lasers. It's making no sense that Sanji will move to approach lasers. More realistically can be that he turns around on the ground and rushes forward at the opposite direction (considering the next panel). He doesn't need to vertically stand on the ground to rush.
Third Calc
Just D1 there should be 7.29665821256 - 1.01998496719, not 1.01998496719
And moved distance is 6.75425 meters. 13.5085 meters is total distance moved by both wings a the same time. When Marco moves, his wings rotate 90 degrees seperately.
1. There's one speed calc I did for Full zoan marco which should be able to replace the old one with more accuracy (The old one used hybrid zoan marco who is of much smaller size)
2. And this needs some small adjustments
Re-Calc of Sanji dodging Queen's laser (again)
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Your link for Marco's body size is not evaluated and I cannot say if that is correct. I also don't like the method to find his size, especially considering the nature of using character size like this. The scan being used to calculate Marco's dodge contradicts the size you got as well.
Queen's ball of hair is around 27 px or 2.091 m in diameter in the scan of Marco dodging. But it's worse since Marco is closer to the screen than Queen, meaning the size would be bigger. This is a noticeable difference, and I don't like having such a contradiction in a calculation.
Isn't there another way to calculate this?
However, let me ignore these problems for a second.
Shouldn't we be using the bare minimum distance he needs to move to avoid the laser? He doesn't need to do that entire movement to avoid it, since I don't see anything in the panels provided by the calc to believe he did. He doesn't need to first rotate down, he can do that while moving away, I see no reason to assume he just stood there.
Nor do I believe he has to make those movements before moving.
This is a manga panel, we can't say for certain how he moved in comparison to the laser so we should keep the assumptions low unless we have reasons to believe otherwise. Yet your assumption here is that Marco decided to move in an extremely slow and inefficient manner because of reasons?
He moved 47+ meters against a laser that is 7+ meters away from him, but didn't actually get out of the way yet? Unless I'm missing something here, this sounds absurd.
For Sanji, yeah we should be using official heights. But I don't really understand what's happening in the link provided.
IDK jack about One Piece beyond some memes and blanket spoilers I've seen, so I'm going to need some context here.
Queen's ball of hair is around 27 px or 2.091 m in diameter in the scan of Marco dodging. But it's worse since Marco is closer to the screen than Queen, meaning the size would be bigger. This is a noticeable difference, and I don't like having such a contradiction in a calculation.
Isn't there another way to calculate this?
However, let me ignore these problems for a second.
Shouldn't we be using the bare minimum distance he needs to move to avoid the laser? He doesn't need to do that entire movement to avoid it, since I don't see anything in the panels provided by the calc to believe he did. He doesn't need to first rotate down, he can do that while moving away, I see no reason to assume he just stood there.
Nor do I believe he has to make those movements before moving.
This is a manga panel, we can't say for certain how he moved in comparison to the laser so we should keep the assumptions low unless we have reasons to believe otherwise. Yet your assumption here is that Marco decided to move in an extremely slow and inefficient manner because of reasons?
He moved 47+ meters against a laser that is 7+ meters away from him, but didn't actually get out of the way yet? Unless I'm missing something here, this sounds absurd.
For Sanji, yeah we should be using official heights. But I don't really understand what's happening in the link provided.
IDK jack about One Piece beyond some memes and blanket spoilers I've seen, so I'm going to need some context here.
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I don't really see Marco's body being closer to the screen? Even if it was, would be insanely minuscule, Queen's face is closer to the screen tho
If you are talking about this panel, Marco is further away from the screen than Queen's face is
It doesn't? How?
The hair ball I calced was around 1.3669523163074 m which is around the size of Marco phoenix head, which literally is consistent with the dodge panel
There doesn't seem to be any other panel that's better for size scaling, those sizes are the closest things that's been near Marco's full zoan from what I know
This has been discussed about already, Marco isn't only dodging the laser, he is going behind Queen's head to find an opening while Queen attacks/shoots his laser... He has done something somewhat similar before. The movement is literally shown from his tail and his wings (The tail shows he has done a 180 from his starting dodging position, his wings and body show his body rotation is side ways, same with his closest to the screen tail), that would have to be his movements from his rotations that he would have to do from his original position that he was in
Marco doesn't have to move slow? Marco just uses more movements to get behind queen to find an opening, hence King attacks him after
For an easier understanding, this quite rough visual example might somwhat help give more context and an idea of what's happening...
These are the chapters of Sanji's feat
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What I can say for certanity is that Queen definitely did not fire his lasers from 0.53 meters away from Sanji. Look at the panel where Sanji is dodging; light bullets are being scattered over a wide area and producing many explosions. It doesn't make any sense for them be scattered so wildly if Queen was firing them from such a close range.
In the panel where Queen is shooting the lasers from his eyes, it looks like his head has retracted back to its default position meaning he'd be further away when firing the lasers. This is supported by the anime's version which doesn't show him shooting lasers while his neck is extended.
In the panel where Queen is shooting the lasers from his eyes, it looks like his head has retracted back to its default position meaning he'd be further away when firing the lasers. This is supported by the anime's version which doesn't show him shooting lasers while his neck is extended.
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Interesting point, in which episode it takes place?
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Episode 1061. Around 7 and a half minutes in.
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It's shown his laser eyes shoot first... That's why?
The other lasers are for when Sanji moved out of the way of his past eye lasers
Anime doesn't even show any of the panels?
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He also shoots his eye lasers twice with his neck extended
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I figured it was self evident that Queen wasn't 0.5 meters away from Sanji, its also quite evident he retracted his head back as we literally see his neck, in the other panel, from up close, you wouldn't have been able to see his neck.
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No they are not...? His eye lasers are red... Which are not shown in the other panel where sanji has already dodged them
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It doesn't matter what color they are; Queen is shooting lasers from his eyes in his attack on Sanji. The things raining down on Sanji is what is being shot from Queen's eyes. We don't see Queen launching any other attack. Those light bullets could only have come from his eyes.
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Let's assume they come out of his eyes (They didn't), the past two eye lasers which were red is not seen in the next panel after Sanji had already dodged them, so it doesn't matter if queen isn't seen in the next panel as he would've already shot his two eye lasers before he retracted his head
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I don't see how that follows, sorry.
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So what exactly are your issues with Queen being 0.5 meters away/close range from Sanji here?
Since from what I've understood, your saying Queen shot further away from the right panel as he retracted his head when shooting his eye lasers (Which I've shown isn't true, he still has it "unleashed" and it wouldn't matter "It doesn't make any sense for them be scattered so wildly if Queen was firing them from such a close range." As those lasers would've happened afterwards from sanji having already dodged Queen's two beams)
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Exactly, this is the panel I'm talking about. Marco is further away and if we compare his size to Queen it doesn't match with the previous unevaluated calculation.
The size between Marco and Queen isn't consistent between panels and shouldn't be used.
If we knew official size of Marco it'd be fine, but making up our own sizes causes issues.
On the Sanji thing, just that we should use his official height and the distance should be the minimum possible. However, are we assuming Sanji stood up and then moved? I don't understand why rotation is even a thing at all, that's just a higher end assumption since the panel never shows us. At least from what the calculation provides.
We only see Sanji after the attack has been dodged. Who's to say Sanji didn't just push himself to the side from that position?
He's superhuman after all, I'm sure his arms or legs can just push himself away. Honestly, I think the distance used for Sanji should be half of his width. Assuming Queen is aiming directly at Sanji. All he has to do is push himself aside, I think we shouldn't be assuming he stood up first before jumping. Not unless the manga showed him do that.
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We can see that he used his legs to push himself away, most likely his right foot... He wouldn't be in that reaching position rotating downwards otherwise (Would be similar to Rayleigh's jump here but to dodge away instead)
Well we don't... Unless a future vivrecard comes, we would just work with what we have
Hair ball = 22 px (1.3669523163074 m)
Marco body length = 208.2 px (12.936339647964 m)
Which is still somewhat consistent with the currently used size in the Calc (16.129253978664 m) but since the angle and positioning of the two characters are bad for pixel scaling... The other panel where they are next to each other would be the most accurate
It's still fine and think your overreacting ngl
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I'll try to summarize my issues with the calc:
It makes the assumption that Sanji has to have made two 90 degrees rotations of his 1.8 meter tall body in the time it takes the beams emitted from Queen's eyes to reach the furthest extremity of Sanji's body closest to Queen.
In other words, (if you picture Sanji's body as a straight line), one end of Sanji's body moved 2.82743339 meters in a 90 degree arc, while the other end was stationary, then it moved 2.82743339 meters again in another direction, all in time it took Queen's laser to travel 0.53 meters.
I don't see how the assumptions for this holds up. It assumes that Sanji didn't start moving his body until after Queen fired his laser. Moreover, if Sanji had only started moving after Queen fired his laser, then his extremities would no longer be only 0.53 meters away from Queen. That means there'd be a further distance that the laser could've travelled before Sanji had to get out of the way before the laser could hit him. Also, Sanji's body isn't positioned like a perfectly straight line in the scene; I don't see why the arc length here would require using his full 1.8 meters height as the radius.
Queen also isn't shown to only be 0.53 meters away from Sanji when he starts firing his lasers. We don't see where Sanji is on the panel when Queen's lasers actually start firing. If Sanji had executed any of the range of motions before Queen started firing, then it's up in the air exactly how far away he'd be.
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That's similar to what I suggested in my recalc(like turning around and rushing) , but since 180 degree assumption also got approved I marked higher one as accepted.
But as I mentioned earlier Sanji making his first 90 degree rotation will move him closer to lasers... Which is a high-end assumption as you said.
What about mesauring him from King's blade? (look at the panel where wing is cut)
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I can't really give any opinions on this beyond what I've said. As I'm not familiar enough with One Piece to say what would be accurate in regard to character sizes.
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@TheRustyOne Do you think based on my comment above that the current Sanji calc has enough issues that it can be removed?
