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Changing/Fixing some of King's AP and Speed justifications.
AP Proposal 1:
Proposal - Removing Imperial Flame Justification from King's Profile
Reasoning - The current justification for King's AP with Imperial Flames that he "Burned Zoro with a kick," lacks evidence to support the notion of it amping his AP. The act of burning someone with fire does not inherently mean that a high level of power is being used. Fire-based attacks are primarily reliant on the nature of fire itself. King burning Zoro is not indicative of an amp granted by his flames.
A common argument that people use to argue in favor of keeping this rating is that while King's use of Busoshoku Haki was overpowered by Zoro, his Imperial Flames allowed for them to clash evenly. This is completely false. In chapter 1035, we see that King engaged in several exchanges with Zoro. The idea that Imperial Flames somehow drastically altered the power dynamic between King and Zoro disregards the multiple instances where King demonstrated his ability to hold his ground and block Zoro's attacks effectively.
AP Proposal 2:
Proposal - Merging AP Justifications for Busoshoku Haki, Zoan Forms, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake
Reasoning - The current rating of King's AP amps, specifically the ones for his Busō, Zoan forms, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake, create an unnecessary stacking of power without adequate justification. This proposal will address the logical inconsistencies in separating these amps and will suggest a more coherent and accurate representation of King's AP amps based on things seen in the manga.
In the instances where King used his Zoan forms, Busōshoku Haki, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake, the effects on Zoro were very similar - he was knocked back and left bleeding in each case. This consistency in Zoro's reactions and the inflicted damage suggests that each of these are around the same level of strength.
Regarding Zoro's statement about being unable to block Imperial Deep Pride Stake, which is quoted currently in King's profile, to put it plainly, it's wrong. In the official Viz scans, Zoro said "How can you block that," following up by comparing it to a laser beam. Zoro's comparison of the attack to a laser is clearly metaphorical, highlighting the narrow, focused nature of the attack. The metaphor was made show the challenge of blocking a precisely targeted strike. Taking the first half of the quote without using the other half robs it of important context.
Putting these amps under the same 'higher' rating makes the most sense. Furthermore, there's a valid argument for simply adding Imperial Deep Pride Stake into the justification of King's Zoan forms instead of treating it as a different amp entirely. As explained earlier, these abilities have shown comparable levels of AP, resulting in similar effects on Zoro. Additionally, Imperial Deep Pride Stake is already just an attack King's uses in Zoan forms. With all this in mind, making a separate distinction for this attack and his Zoan forms is redundant.
As I said in the Proposal, I recommend merging the AP justifications in a way that reflects the consistent damage and reactions seen in the manga. Thus, the revised ratings could be "higher in Zoan forms or with Busoshoku Haki."
Speed Proposal 1:
Proposal - Removing Flame Off FTE Justification from King's Profile
Reasoning - The claim that Flame Off King's speed is FTE to Zoro, is wrong. This proposal aims to address the misconceptions on King's speed and bring to attention instances that contradict the notion of his alleged FTE speed.
In Chapter 1027, we see King in his Flames Off Hybrid Form rushing toward Zoro. Despite this , Zoro's was able to see and counter King's attacks without issue, showing that King's speed was not beyond Zoro's visual capabilities.
Some people might point to King's disappearing in Chapter 1035 as evidence of his FTE movements, but using that as proof is flawed, as it ignores that Oda often uses a disappearing visual effects to show a burst of speed, not necessarily FTE movement. This is seen in past instances such as Luffy's fights with Blueno and Koby. In those cases, despite the similar disappearing visual effect, the characters were still trackable and visible to their opponents, thus disproving the idea of FTE movement.
A notable panel in an earlier chapter shows Zoro's observation that King's Flames Off form only grants him a marginal increase in speed, stating that he becomes "a little faster." This is important as Oda consistently uses visual surprises or explicit statements, to indicate FTE movements, as shown here, here, here, here, and here, just to name a few. Moreover, it's important to note that we literally see Zoro's eyes following King's Flame Off movement.
To add on top of these, we see Zoro reacting to, blocking attacks from, and tagging Flame Off King here, here, and here further cementing that King with his Flames Off is absolutely not faster than Zoro could perceive.
In conclusion, the absence of clear and consistent evidence supporting King's FTE Flame Off speed, coupled with instances where Zoro was able to track his movements, calls for its removal from from King's profile. King is faster when his flames go out, but it's not to the degree where it makes him faster than Zoro can see.
Speed Proposal 2:
Proposal - Removing Speed Blitz Justification from King's Imperial Deep Pride Stake
Reasoning - The claim that King speed blitzed Zoro with his Imperial Deep Pride Stake doesn't align with what's shown in the manga. This proposal's goal is to revise the current image of the attack and to paint a more accurate one for King's profile.
When King used Imperial Deep Pride Stake against Zoro, we clearly see him perceive the attack and evade it by flipping out of the way and landing on his feet. This reaction by Zoro directly proves that it wasn't a speed blitz, as he was both capable of perceiving and reacting to the attack.
According to the accepted definition of a Speed Blitz provided by the wiki, it is "the act of one attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them." Zoro's ability to perceive the attack and dodge it invalidates the claim that Imperial Deep Pride Stake was a speed blitz.
Comparing this situation to other instances in the Wano, saying that Imperial Deep Pride Stake is a speed amp is like to claiming that Brachiosnakeus was as a speed amp for Queen because it was able to grab Sanji, despite him being able to avoid Queen's other attacks. The surprise factor of Imperial Deep Pride Stake doesn't necessarily indicate a genuine speed amp.
Considering the evidence, there are two viable options. The first option is to acknowledge that while Imperial Deep Pride Stake may be an amp, it is not a speed blitz. The second option is to remove Imperial Deep Pride Stake from King's list of speed amps entirely, as there is insufficient evidence to support it being one.
Summary:
Imperial Flames is not an AP amp and should be removed
Busōshoku Haki and Zoan forms should be but under the same 'higher' rating instead of stacking them on top of each other
Imperial Deep Pride Stake and its justification should be included in King's Zoan forms
Turning his Flames off does not grant him an FTE speed amp
Imperial Deep Pride Stake did not speed blitz Zoro, and may not even be a speed amp to begin with
Sandbox:
vsbattles.fandom.com
AP Proposal 1:
Proposal - Removing Imperial Flame Justification from King's Profile
Reasoning - The current justification for King's AP with Imperial Flames that he "Burned Zoro with a kick," lacks evidence to support the notion of it amping his AP. The act of burning someone with fire does not inherently mean that a high level of power is being used. Fire-based attacks are primarily reliant on the nature of fire itself. King burning Zoro is not indicative of an amp granted by his flames.
A common argument that people use to argue in favor of keeping this rating is that while King's use of Busoshoku Haki was overpowered by Zoro, his Imperial Flames allowed for them to clash evenly. This is completely false. In chapter 1035, we see that King engaged in several exchanges with Zoro. The idea that Imperial Flames somehow drastically altered the power dynamic between King and Zoro disregards the multiple instances where King demonstrated his ability to hold his ground and block Zoro's attacks effectively.
AP Proposal 2:
Proposal - Merging AP Justifications for Busoshoku Haki, Zoan Forms, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake
Reasoning - The current rating of King's AP amps, specifically the ones for his Busō, Zoan forms, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake, create an unnecessary stacking of power without adequate justification. This proposal will address the logical inconsistencies in separating these amps and will suggest a more coherent and accurate representation of King's AP amps based on things seen in the manga.
In the instances where King used his Zoan forms, Busōshoku Haki, and Imperial Deep Pride Stake, the effects on Zoro were very similar - he was knocked back and left bleeding in each case. This consistency in Zoro's reactions and the inflicted damage suggests that each of these are around the same level of strength.
Regarding Zoro's statement about being unable to block Imperial Deep Pride Stake, which is quoted currently in King's profile, to put it plainly, it's wrong. In the official Viz scans, Zoro said "How can you block that," following up by comparing it to a laser beam. Zoro's comparison of the attack to a laser is clearly metaphorical, highlighting the narrow, focused nature of the attack. The metaphor was made show the challenge of blocking a precisely targeted strike. Taking the first half of the quote without using the other half robs it of important context.
Putting these amps under the same 'higher' rating makes the most sense. Furthermore, there's a valid argument for simply adding Imperial Deep Pride Stake into the justification of King's Zoan forms instead of treating it as a different amp entirely. As explained earlier, these abilities have shown comparable levels of AP, resulting in similar effects on Zoro. Additionally, Imperial Deep Pride Stake is already just an attack King's uses in Zoan forms. With all this in mind, making a separate distinction for this attack and his Zoan forms is redundant.
As I said in the Proposal, I recommend merging the AP justifications in a way that reflects the consistent damage and reactions seen in the manga. Thus, the revised ratings could be "higher in Zoan forms or with Busoshoku Haki."
Speed Proposal 1:
Proposal - Removing Flame Off FTE Justification from King's Profile
Reasoning - The claim that Flame Off King's speed is FTE to Zoro, is wrong. This proposal aims to address the misconceptions on King's speed and bring to attention instances that contradict the notion of his alleged FTE speed.
In Chapter 1027, we see King in his Flames Off Hybrid Form rushing toward Zoro. Despite this , Zoro's was able to see and counter King's attacks without issue, showing that King's speed was not beyond Zoro's visual capabilities.
Some people might point to King's disappearing in Chapter 1035 as evidence of his FTE movements, but using that as proof is flawed, as it ignores that Oda often uses a disappearing visual effects to show a burst of speed, not necessarily FTE movement. This is seen in past instances such as Luffy's fights with Blueno and Koby. In those cases, despite the similar disappearing visual effect, the characters were still trackable and visible to their opponents, thus disproving the idea of FTE movement.
A notable panel in an earlier chapter shows Zoro's observation that King's Flames Off form only grants him a marginal increase in speed, stating that he becomes "a little faster." This is important as Oda consistently uses visual surprises or explicit statements, to indicate FTE movements, as shown here, here, here, here, and here, just to name a few. Moreover, it's important to note that we literally see Zoro's eyes following King's Flame Off movement.
To add on top of these, we see Zoro reacting to, blocking attacks from, and tagging Flame Off King here, here, and here further cementing that King with his Flames Off is absolutely not faster than Zoro could perceive.
In conclusion, the absence of clear and consistent evidence supporting King's FTE Flame Off speed, coupled with instances where Zoro was able to track his movements, calls for its removal from from King's profile. King is faster when his flames go out, but it's not to the degree where it makes him faster than Zoro can see.
Speed Proposal 2:
Proposal - Removing Speed Blitz Justification from King's Imperial Deep Pride Stake
Reasoning - The claim that King speed blitzed Zoro with his Imperial Deep Pride Stake doesn't align with what's shown in the manga. This proposal's goal is to revise the current image of the attack and to paint a more accurate one for King's profile.
When King used Imperial Deep Pride Stake against Zoro, we clearly see him perceive the attack and evade it by flipping out of the way and landing on his feet. This reaction by Zoro directly proves that it wasn't a speed blitz, as he was both capable of perceiving and reacting to the attack.
According to the accepted definition of a Speed Blitz provided by the wiki, it is "the act of one attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them." Zoro's ability to perceive the attack and dodge it invalidates the claim that Imperial Deep Pride Stake was a speed blitz.
Comparing this situation to other instances in the Wano, saying that Imperial Deep Pride Stake is a speed amp is like to claiming that Brachiosnakeus was as a speed amp for Queen because it was able to grab Sanji, despite him being able to avoid Queen's other attacks. The surprise factor of Imperial Deep Pride Stake doesn't necessarily indicate a genuine speed amp.
Considering the evidence, there are two viable options. The first option is to acknowledge that while Imperial Deep Pride Stake may be an amp, it is not a speed blitz. The second option is to remove Imperial Deep Pride Stake from King's list of speed amps entirely, as there is insufficient evidence to support it being one.
Summary:
Imperial Flames is not an AP amp and should be removed
Busōshoku Haki and Zoan forms should be but under the same 'higher' rating instead of stacking them on top of each other
Imperial Deep Pride Stake and its justification should be included in King's Zoan forms
Turning his Flames off does not grant him an FTE speed amp
Imperial Deep Pride Stake did not speed blitz Zoro, and may not even be a speed amp to begin with
Sandbox:
Kachon123/King
vsbattles.fandom.com
Last edited:
I’m fine with keeping IDPS as a speed amp, since the comparison is to a laser beam, and I believe that comparison is made to invoke thoughts of speed (laser beams are generally thought of as pretty fast for the layperson).
