King additional justifications

[Eminiteable]

What's the source for this?

 

[Eseseso]

He's the No.2 of the entire crew which Kuzan is apart of. As for the commander role Kuzan is most likely the tenth unrevealed member.

For safety's sake let's wait on this.

Still disagree with this being a durability feat, it would be classified under endurance.

He took the first one relatively well but the 2nd one did do notable damage.

IMO it's enough for his base flame-less durability to downscale.

Colored Scans aren't out yet so not sure what the support for red lightning is.

There is lightning coming out when they clash.

 

[Eminiteable]

He took the first one relatively well but the 2nd one did do notable damage.

IMO it's enough for his base flame-less durability to downscale.

The second one is definitively weaker than the first, You don't downscale a guy who got three-shot.

There is lightning coming out when they clash.

as shown by the red lightning from the clash.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

What's the source for this?

(Might wanna slow the video because it goes by fast )

 

[Eminiteable]

(Might wanna slow the video because it goes by fast )

I see it, this video is only referencing their leaders & main officers which is why only the fleet admiral & admirals are listed for the navy & why cross guild only has the three warlords and not their subordinates.

The tenth titanic captain isn't revealed which is why it's listed as "???" but regardless Kuzan is still a confirmed member of their crew (and most likely will be shown as the tenth member)

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I see it, this video is only referencing their leaders & main officers which is why only the fleet admiral & admirals are listed for the navy & why cross guild only has the three warlords and not their subordinates.

The tenth titanic captain isn't revealed which is why it's listed as "???" but regardless Kuzan is still a confirmed member of their crew (and most likely will be shown as the tenth member)

Fair, like them not showing Koala or Hack in the RA.

 

[Eseseso]

The second one is definitively weaker than the first, You don't downscale a guy who got three-shot

He took those hits much better than the Scabbards took Kaido's serious hits.

I'd say he took the first 2 Haoshoku hits almost as well as Awakened Lucci took G5 Luffy's attacks.

And you can't ignore that the first KoH attack did not do that much damage to him

.

My bad about the lightning being red, but either way the lightning should represent Buso being used in the attack like it usually does in OP when 2 people clash.

 

[Eminiteable]

He took those hits much better than the Scabbards took Kaido's serious hits.

Endurance

I'd say he took the first 2 Haoshoku hits almost as well as Awakened Lucci took G5 Luffy's attacks.

And you can't ignore that the first KoH attack did not do that much damage to him

First hit was a KOH move (Enma unleashed + Three Sword Style + Hao Infusion) & The second one was a one-sword style regular hao infused attack. Not the same at all, check the durability page on Haemoptysis:

Haemoptysis is the act of coughing up blood. This is caused from the force of blunt attacks damaging blood vessels, causing blood and fluids to build up in your lungs. This created the popular notion that characters are getting their durability bypassed. This a flawed way of scaling, as organs and blood vessels are weaker than the actual body.

King's body was actually cut into deeply, it's not on par with Lucci spitting up blood.

Like I already said, the second hit is factually weaker than the first so either the damage was great & he recovered or the mask took the majority of the damage.

 

[Eseseso]

Endurance

First hit was a KOH move (Enma unleashed + Three Sword Style + Hao Infusion) & The second one was a one-sword style regular hao infused attack. Not the same at all, check the durability page on Haemoptysis:

King's body was actually cut into deeply, it's not on par with Lucci spitting up blood.

Like I already said, the second hit is factually weaker than the first so either the damage was great & he recovered or the mask took the majority of the damage.

What I meant was that both of them took 2 hits with moderate damage, got knocked out by the 3rd hit.

Of course, Lucci recovered much better than King, but that's stamina.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Lucci had a fist stretched into his stomach no shiz he's gonna cough blood LOL.
Hell he might have even been knocked away by it, of course that isn't the topic at hand so I won't mention it.

 

[Eminiteable]

What I meant was that both of them took 2 hits with moderate damage, got knocked out by the 3rd hit.

Of course, Lucci recovered much better than King, but that's stamina.

It's a bit different, like I tried explaining the damage done to King was far worse than what Luffy did to Lucci and the final hit from Luffy to Lucci was durability negation which is why it was far more effective than the previous despite Lucci's awakened zoan recovery.

 

[Eseseso]

It's a bit different, like I tried explaining the damage done to King was far worse than what Luffy did to Lucci and the final hit from Luffy to Lucci was durability negation which is why it was far more effective than the last despite Lucci's awakened zoan recovery.

Oh yeah, I forgot, cuz Rubberization is dura neg.

But whatever, I'll drop it just to end this thread and I'll remove it from durability.

@Eminiteable Should his base flame-less durability scale to his base AP with or without his sword?

And Flame-less Zoan King scales in durability both above his AP (which already scales to Marco and scales above his base w/ a sword which cut Marco's wing) and to being unharmed by a clash with BoKF (Beginning of King Fight) Buso Zoro, who matched Base King w/ a sword.

I'm just glad that, in potential future vs debates, it can't just be said that King with no flames is a glass cannon, since nothing would stop him from using no-flames + Zoan to be a tanky speed demon.

 

[Eminiteable]

@Eminiteable Should his base flame-less durability scale to his base AP with or without his sword?

Durability page says this in regards to weapon scaling:

This is not applicable to characters who use weapons. A sword attacking with a certain amount of force does not always mean that the user of the weapon will have durability equal to the sword, but the sword's durability would scale from its Striking Strength. Sword users frequently harm opponents who they clash with, rendering this method of scaling flawed.

So his flame-less durability would scale to his base AP without his sword. Of course, his sword scales to it's SS's durability.

 

[Eseseso]

Durability page says this in regards to weapon scaling:

So his flame-less durability would scale to his base AP without his sword. Of course, his sword scales to it's SS's durability.

Well yeah, I mean it took a KoH attack to break the sword, no one is debating the sword's durability.

Thanks for the answer btw.

 

[Eseseso]

It's kind of weird how Zoan King did consistently better against Zoro than his Buso did.

Both stomped Beginning of Fight Buso Zoro, but in 1035, Zoan King pressured Buso Zoro greatly and was only repelled by Enma, while Buso King was being pushed back by Buso Zoro, and needed to stack Imperial Flames just to match Buso Zoro.

 

[Eminiteable]

Both stomped Beginning of Fight Buso Zoro, but in 1035, Zoan King pressured Buso Zoro greatly and was only repelled by Enma, while Buso King was being pushed back by Buso Zoro, and needed to stack Imperial Flames just to match Buso Zoro.

Number of limbs he can attack with, King was overwhelming Zoro due to the numerous flame bullets prior & striking simultaneously with his two wings & likely his beak.

Base King can't do that.

 

[Eseseso]

Number of limbs he can attack with, King was overwhelming Zoro due to the numerous flame bullets prior & striking simultaneously with his two wings & likely his beak.

Base King can't do that.

That's fair, though the wings seemed to be more of an issue for him than the flame bullets (I didn't see any sign of him using his beak, but the anime may prove me wrong).

 

[Eminiteable]

That's fair, though the wings seemed to be more of an issue for him than the flame bullets (I didn't see any sign of him using his beak, but the anime may prove me wrong).

Flame bullets were dealt with by a weaker version of Zoro when he deflected his beak attack before, they wouldn't be much of an issue for end of fight Zoro.

 

[Eseseso]

Flame bullets were dealt with by a weaker version of Zoro when he deflected his beak attack before, they wouldn't be much of an issue for end of fight Zoro.

Exactly, so it was probably King's wings that pressured Zoro and forced him to use Enma to block.

 

[Eseseso]

Something else I realized about King's durability: his suit.

His suit notably amps his durability.

It took a kick from Base Marco (which even in base could match Kizaru's kick and send Aojiki flying) without any visible damage, and was unharmed by Zoro's Shishi Sonson and a no-Haki stab (as well as his attack in 1022 right after he got healed by the Mink Medicine). It was also unharmed by King's explosion.

Of course, once Zoro used KoH, it got sliced into ribbons, but that's more of a feat for KoH Zoro than anything else.

Beginning of King Fight Buso Zoro breaking part of it when Base Marco's kick couldn't is a solid feat for Buso Zoro, I will say.

 

[Eseseso]

Would it be too much of a stretch to add to King's Zoan form that he was confident in taking on a no-Homie Base Big Mom?

During the waterfall scene?

I know it's a stretch but worth asking.

 

[Kachon123]

Would it be too much of a stretch to add to King's Zoan form that he was confident in taking on a no-Homie Base Big Mom?

Yes.

 

[Kachon123]

This kind of died.


The only two things left to discuss are #1 and #4 in the OP.

#1 is pretty redundant, as he already scales above that in his profile, so I see no reason to adding it.

#4 makes no sense to add. King got cut on like sashimi, so there's no durability scaling and he was stunned until regenerated, so there is nothing to add for his endurance. This is covered in his endurance.

I disagree with adding these two.

 

[Eseseso]

This kind of died.

Tbh, I'm waiting for the anime to show Chapter 1035 before I resume this thread one last time.

The only two things left to discuss are #1 and #4 in the OP.

#1 is pretty redundant, as he already scales above that in his profile, so I see no reason to adding it.

Emin agreed to it so it was already added. Just a good support feat to show that he can damage Zoro in his Zoan form.

#4 makes no sense to add. King got cut on like sashimi, so there's no durability scaling and he was stunned until regenerated, so there is nothing to add for his endurance. This is covered in his endurance.

This was already settled and it was agreed that King doesn't scale in dura, just endurance, like you said.

The likeliest reason he endured the first one was due to his suit (which scales to Marco's AP in terms of durability) taking the brunt of it, and even then his suit got torn to shreds from one KoH attack, which is a really solid support feat for KoH.

 

[Kachon123]

Emin agreed to it so it was already added.

Emin isn't a staff member?

 

[Eseseso]

Emin isn't a staff member?

Staff are only needed for major edits, like tier changes and what-not, not support justifications.

KT and Mitch rarely show up in OP CRT's anymore, so people like Emin, Fireld, and you are like the next best thing.

 

[Kachon123]

Staff are only needed for major edits, like tier changes and what-not, not support justifications.

KT and Mitch rarely show up in OP CRT's anymore, so people like Emin, Fireld, and you are like the next best thing.

I appreciate it, but I never new this was a thing. Cool I guess.

 

[Kachon123]

Just checked in with KT and Mitch.

Thread Mods still need to give approval.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

 

[Eseseso]

Just checked in with KT and Mitch.

Thread Mods still need to give approval.

Just checked, you're right (could've sworn it said only for major revisions, maybe they changed it or I'm just blind), but this is a minor content revision so just one is needed according to Da Rules.

Lemme ask around.

 

[Eseseso]

Ok, so one last thing/proposal from me (Until the anime adaptation of 1035 comes out):

I think Base No-Flame King's durability (and only his durability, not his physical AP) should scale above his suit's durability, as after the first KoH attack, while he was definitely still damaged by the first KoH attack (and as we've agreed doesn't scale at all to the KoH attacks), he still took the first strike with far less damage than his suit, which was sliced to ribbons with one attack.

Marco = King's Suit < No-Flame King's durability.

I also want to mention again that this is ONLY for his flame-off durability, not his no-sword AP, which still scales above Base Queen and equal to Base Sanji.

 

[Kachon123]

I think Base No-Flame King's durability (and only his durability, not his physical AP) should scale above his suit's durability, as after the first KoH attack, while he was definitely still damaged by the first KoH attack (and as we've agreed doesn't scale at all to the KoH attacks), he still took the first strike with far less damage than his suit, which was sliced to ribbons with one attack.

I completely disagree. Every time he got hit with KoH, both him and his suit got sliced up

 

[Eminiteable]

Just scale his flame-off durability to GB stuff.

 

[Kachon123]

Just scale his flame-off durability to GB stuff.

Flame-Off Durability King > GB Vines >~ Dragon Momo Durability ~ Kaidou's Dragon Durability

 

[Eseseso]

Just scale his flame-off durability to GB stuff.

Flame-Off Durability King > GB Vines >~ Dragon Momo Durability ~ Kaidou's Dragon Durability

Didn't GB's vines easily pierce No-Flame King? How would Flame-Off King's durability scale?

I completely disagree. Every time he got hit with KoH, both him and his suit got sliced up

I know he got sliced, but the first time he took less damage than the suit did.

The 2nd time was Hao-only so I can't use that as a comparison.

 

[Kachon123]

Didn't GB easily pierce No-Flame King?

He couldn't pierce his skin.

I know he got sliced, but the first time he took less damage than the suit did.

No he didn't.

 

[Sus]

oh brother hell no

 

[Sus]

He couldn't pierce his skin.

he did send the panel cuz i cant

 

[Kachon123]

Also, suit scaling is pretty stupid ngl. How do we know it's not just King's suit's horns that are super durable?

I find it odd that we give the whole suit that level of durability.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, suit scaling is pretty stupid ngl. How do we know it's not just King's suit's horns that are super durable?

I find it odd that we give the whole suit that level of durability.

The helmet on the suit also took that kick to the head from Marco, was fine afterwards.

And nothing says the rest of the suit is less durable, and why would it be? King wants to keep his face shielded.

Also, no-Haki Zoro stabbed the stomach area of the suit and the suit was completely unscratched (it was right before King used his explosion [or as I like to call it, "Jackpot"]), so it having unnatural durability is consistent.

He couldn't pierce his skin.

Huh, I'll be damned.

Just looked at the scan, still a bit unclear so I'm still iffy.

No he didn't.

He got one slash mark, the suit was reduced to tatters.