One Piece General Revisions Part 2: East Blue to Enies Lobby Edition

[KobsterHope07]

Right now we must update some characters tiering and lifting strength.
Arabasta Luffy, Zoro and Sanji should get updated to Class M via Sanji kicking the Bananawani and so will all of the characters that scale to them.

Also all of the EBS top tiers should get updated to At least High 8-C.

There's an argument about EBS Luffy dodging Krieg's explosions that could upgrade him and Arlong (and possibly Zoro and Sanji)'s speed to Hypersonic.

And we still need to settle the discussion about Crocodile's sand storm feat now that Stefano scaled the royal palace with different ressults but most of them being consistent with the statements.

I'm about to finish the reread for Skypiea and there's some feats to discuss. I also made some lightning dodging calcs for Luffy and Zoro and there are some more for Nami and Usopp that need to be done.

Whoops, read the quote wrong about Arlong.

 

[The_Calaca]

If Krieg's explosions rates Luffy at Hypersonic then Arlong would be affected too. Maybe all of the verse would be.

 

[The_Calaca]

Back to Skypiea we got these calcs accepted for speed:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Stefano4444/Nami_and_Usopp_dodging_lightning

There's a calc with Luffy's 'blocking' Enel's El Thor but I need to fix it since Spino says the 240 value seems randomly chosed so I'll work on it a little more and the result will change. I don't think the result will be any lower than Mach 200 so I suggest to wait for it.

But even without it this improves the Skypiea and further characters to MHS with Mach 140-200. Nami's feat is consistent with Kalifa (Mach 271) and don't forget that Nami and Usopp are the weakest and by extension the slowest of the Strawhats so this scales to everybody in Skypiea.

Also, Stefano did a calc where Luffy outspeeds an explosion but it still needs evaluation. It would upgrade EBS to Hypersonic+.

So once we finish everything regarding Crocodile's feats we could finally say if the Large Town level is correct or we should keep the Small City level. After that we should upgrade the speed for Skypiea's characters to MHS.

 

[Stefano4444]

After that we should upgrade the speed for Skypiea's characters to MHS.

Since we put Alabasta Saga and Skypiea Saga in the same Key even characters such as Crocodile, Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 will need to be updated at MHS as well.

 

[Damage3245]

Since we put Alabasta Saga and Skypiea Saga in the same Key even characters such as Crocodile, Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 will need to be updated at MHS as well.

I don't think that's how it works.

You'd have to have some supporting evidence that the characters were just as fast in the Alabasta Saga.

 

[Stefano4444]

I don't think that's how it works.

You'd have to have some supporting evidence that the characters were just as fast in the Alabasta Saga.

Its unlikely that Nami and Usopp had be able to surpass the top tiers of the previous arc without any notable strength/speed boost, so in Crocodile shouldn't be slower or at least far slower than Skypiea Nami, so it should be reasonable to put him at Likely Massively Hypersonic.

 

[Stefano4444]

Also, Stefano did a calc where Luffy outspeeds an explosion but it still needs evaluation. It would upgrade EBS to Hypersonic+.

I don't think that feat would be possible to utilize, since it seen more likely that Luffy didn't trully outspeed the explosion but rather he had been blasted away.

I think it should be better calculate this calculate this two feats instead.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xe7jHS2HF...28eq52oTRh3dNg4KGNYIEQCHM/s16000/0078-018.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MKMb2uNyy...oVVuxdUvUGwF_I-rE0b8jgCHM/s16000/0050-015.png

 

[Damage3245]

Hmm. I'm not sure what to think about Skypiea Arc Ussop being Mach 213/255, of all people, but I'll reserve judgement and just let things take its course for now.

 

[Asdffffff]

usopp ain't mach 255

 

[The_Calaca]

I don't think that feat would be possible to utilize, since it seen more likely that Luffy didn't trully outspeed the explosion but rather he had been blasted away.

I think it should be better calculate this calculate this two feats instead.

Those feats seems like Supersonic+ which is the current rating EBS characters has.

 

[Stefano4444]

Those feats seems like Supersonic+ which is the current rating EBS characters has.

Then EBS characters are only Supersonic+.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Damage

Btw, with the new dressrosa size, Fujitora's "Ferocious Tiger"(The High 7-A feat) would get different results as well, so could you recalc the feat?

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage
Btw, with the new dressrosa size, Fujitora's "Ferocious Tiger"(The High 7-A feat) would get different results as well, so could you recalc the feat?

Ugarik has already re-calced it here.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Damage

Oh, alright, my bad

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I disagree with all of these One Piece downgrades, but I'll wait until the Vivre Card Databooks and the Wano Country arc feats before I start debating again. Damage is really trying to downgrade the entire verse.

 

[Damage3245]

I disagree with all of these One Piece downgrades, but I'll wait until the Vivre Card Databooks and the Wano Country arc feats before I start debating again. Damage is really trying to downgrade the entire verse.

I don't have anything against the verse.

Big fan in fact.

I just have a different interpretation to some people.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I do agree that it seems like Damage is low balling the verse as much as possible, with all due respect but it does seem suspicious.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Damage You're entitled to your own opinion. But even you've gotta admit that your actions make it seem like you dislike One Piece. But I do understand that Oda hasn't been showing the crazy feats. I know he will do it later, because One Piece is (moreso than Naruto and Bleach) a battle manga. Battle mangas typically get insane power boosts towards the end of the series. In One Piece, there are plenty of statements that, if taken literally, would put the verse's strongest people at continent level to planet level (Whitebeard destroying the world, Shanks and Mihawk shaking the Grand Line, Big Mom devouring countries, etc.). I have a feeling Oda is going to start showing insane power in the manga starting at Wano until One Piece ends. Then it won't be able to be disputed anymore.

 

[Stefano4444]

Personally at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if soon One Piece is going to be downgraded to both below 7-B and MHS for whatever reason.

 

[Damage3245]

Personally at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if soon One Piece is going to be downgraded to both far below both 7-B and MHS for whatever reason.

There's no need to be that cynical.

I'm more skeptical about some feats and calcs than anyone else, and even I don't think the verse is that low.

 

[Js250476]

With the non stop downgrades for months now who could blame you

 

[The_Calaca]

We better stop this before it turns into a personal discusion and let's get back on topic. If you've got some issues with Damage's ways you should talk to him in his wall and not here.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Well tbf, if there were nonstop downgrades for months now, that implies that the previous scalings for OP were wrong.

I like OP, but I'm on Damage's side with this one. I'm all for accuracy, so the more accurate the feats, the better it is. Ideally, that should be the strive of every true fanboy of different series, but sadly that's not the case.

Speaking of downgrades, current bleach tierings are quite flawed tbh. But that's something I'm not brave enough to oppose, so I leave it be.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@Stefano Honestly, I wouldn't even be surprised. One Piece is downplayed way too much. Oda literally states that Kizaru is lightspeed in databooks and, in the manga, many statements suggest this, but Kizaru is STILL downplayed. I swear, if this were Naruto the calc would've been accepted. I probably sound irritated and I'm not trying to hate on other verses, but it is ridiculous how out of their way people go to try to downgrade One Piece. The databooks are canon. Kizaru moves and attacks at light speed, end of story. It even states you need to be really good at Observation Haki to keep up.

Lol I would be so done if the top tiers were downgraded to 7B. I'm just waiting for EOS feats to just leave everyone here shocked at how strong the verse really is.

 

[Standuser081]

But in the Naruto databook it's stated thay Naruto dodged a lightspeed attack but we don't give Naruto LS reaction speeds, do we?

 

[Chibi14]

But in the Naruto databook it's stated thay Naruto dodged a lightspeed attack but we don't give Naruto LS reaction speeds, do we?

Well in this case we can´t scale everything in this site to LS even when both manga and databook confirm the speed of Kizaru? With this logic no one her on this site would have LS speed, in Naruto when Madara attack with light fang we doesn´t get a state when he state his attack was with LS. But if you want to talk about naruto make other thread(because I haven´t anything against LS reaction for Naruto character), but right now we have now both manga/databook who confirm again that Kizaru light kicks and light beams travel in light speed(Marco react to the light beams).

 

[The_Calaca]

Haku's case is like Foxy's Noroma Beam. It's photons that get reflected in mirrors and even then we don't use it because it would mess the powerscaling.

So it's a false equivalency using Haku to compare Kizaru. Foxy is the parallel case.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

But in the Naruto databook it's stated thay Naruto dodged a lightspeed attack but we don't give Naruto LS reaction speeds, do we?

The Naruto databooks contradict the canon material and have no supporting evidence backing up that Naruto can move that fast. Plus it was aim dodging. The reason why One Piece's databook should be taken seriously is because it isn't contradicting anything. It ellaborates on the nature on something that was considered by most on this site to be ambiguous. We just received clarification and it falls in line with what we know about his abilities.

 

[The_Calaca]

I asked Antvasima to comment here. We have to edit many things from the characters that the earlier we start the earlier we end.

East Blue Saga

• Add an At least to the majority of profiles:

• • Characters who should be upgraded are: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Arlong, Krieg, Kuro (arguably), Pearl (for matching and damaging Sanji), Gin (comparable if not superior to Sanji).

• Talk about Stefano's calc which boost the verse to Hypersonic+. It's yet to be evaluated tho so this discussion should be postponed until it gets accepted.

• Talk about Usopp's EBS key. I disagree with this since we have no clear feats despite his fight with Chew.

Arabasta Saga

• Finish the discussion about Crocodile's Sand Storm.

• Upgrade the characters to Class M for Sanji's feat

• • Characters who should scale: Sanji (did the feat), Zoro (being slightly stronger than Sanji), Bon Clay (matched Sanji), Daz Bones (matched Zoro and Bon Clay), Luffy (slightly strongest of the Monster Trio), Crocodile (w/o DF powers), Enel (matched Luffy), Braham (matched Zoro). And in Water Seven/Enies Lobby most characters should scale to this except the obvious one that doesn't (Usopp and Nami).

• I want to argue about Luffy's poison resistance. I read that scene again and I think the poison resistance should be added on top of Corrosion Inducement resistance aswell. Luffy woke up after he nearly fainted from the poison and even Crocodile was surprised about it. Other profiles has resistances to something like this for the sake of waking up and keep fightning (i.e. you can get Ice Manipulation Resistance if you thawed out by yourself). Obviously it's not nearly something as wild as the Post TS resistance but it's resistance after all.

• • I also want to discuss about the "Limited" in Corrosion Inducement Resistance. AFAIK We give the Limited status to abilities/resistances that need a special condition to do it. That's not Luffy's case but I'd like some admin input about that matter.

 

[Antvasima]

Isn't it better to wait with the revision until after you have decided which characters that should be rescaled from Damage3245's new accepted calculations?

 

[Damage3245]

I think that we should probably postpone these changes a little while, especially since Stefano's calc and Crocodile's re-calcs are yet to be evaluated and/or completed.

I do want to make a new thread discussing the new scaling but I want to do that after I've updated my calc for Aokiji and had it evaluated.

 

[The_Calaca]

This revisions are regarded Pre TS characters. In order to avoid a mess editing all the profiles from a verse with more than 100 characters we should edit what we have now. That's my suggestion.

Anyway, Damage suggested to keep Luffy's profile open for a while until we finish the whole revisions. That way we could edit them when we need to and don't bother Ant with constants requests.

 

[Damage3245]

I do agree with leaving Luffy's profile unlocked for a while ^

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock the profile then. You can tell me when you have finished with the revisions.

 

[The_Calaca]

Thanks.

BTW should we unlock Kuro's profile aswell? I don't know why is even closed.

 

[Stefano4444]

East Blue Saga

• Characters who should be upgraded are: Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Arlong, Krieg, Kuro (arguably).
• Talk about Stefano's calc which boost the verse to Hypersonic+. It's yet to be evaluated tho so this discussion should be postponed until it gets accepted.
• Talk about Usopp's EBS key. I disagree with this since we have no clear feats despite his fight with Chew.

Gin should be upgraded at well since he was able to equally fight Sanji and even take the upper hand.

And i agree with not having a EBS key for Usopp, during that arc he hasn't done much of interesting or impressive beside defeat Chew.

Arabasta Saga

• Finish the discussion about Crocodile's Sand Storm.

• Upgrade the characters to Class M for Sanji's feat

• • Characters who should scale: Sanji (did the feat), Zoro (being slightly stronger than Sanji), Bon Clay (matched Sanji), Daz Bones (matched Zoro and Bon Clay), Luffy (slightly strongest of the Monster Trio), Crocodile (w/o DF powers), Enel (matched Luffy), Braham (matched Zoro). And in Water Seven/Enies Lobby most characters should scale to this except the obvious one that doesn't (Usopp and Nami).

• I want to argue about Luffy's poison resistance. I read that scene again and I think the poison resistance should be added on top of Corrosion Inducement resistance aswell. Luffy woke up after he nearly fainted from the poison and even Crocodile was surprised about it. Other profiles has resistances to something like this for the sake of waking up and keep fightning (i.e. you can get Ice Manipulation Resistance if you thawed out by yourself). Obviously it's not nearly something as wild as the Post TS resistance but it's resistance after all.

• I also want to discuss about the "Limited" in Corrosion Inducement Resistance. AFAIK We give the Limited status to abilities/resistances that need a special condition to do it. That's not Luffy's case but I'd like some admin input about that matter.

There is also to discuss about the possibility of giving Luffy cold resistence since he was able to walk around Drum Island with only his typical clothes.

 

[The_Calaca]

Luffy already has that resistance. It was added alongside the corrosion inducement resistance back when I finished Arabasta Saga CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked Kuro. It was likely locked due to vandalism.

 

[The_Calaca]

Thank you, Ant. We'll try to prevent vandalism from now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.