One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[SnookB]

Snook hit y'all with the 3-point sermon on Gear 5th lol

This is warm up for when I hear the cap of "Gear Four hits harder"

 

[Magmag]

His stamina is ass in both forms, his life is burning out…regardless.

 

[SnookB]

His stamina is ass in G4 because if it runs out, it runs out.
G5 can just start up again and continue until he decides otherwise. But I do agree that it burns his life out- that's just not really "stamina" as much as it's the drawback AFTER it turns off.

 

[SnookB]

Then again that's a lil' weird too since he said he's only dying because he was dying prior to using G5. So maybe it has no drawbacks (y'know, as a zoan awakening should) and just Luffy's state before awakening is what's causing him to shrivel up when he does turn it off

 

[Magmag]

His stamina is ass in G4 because if it runs out, it runs out.
G5 can just start up again and continue until he decides otherwise. But I do agree that it burns his life out- that's just not really "stamina" as much as it's the drawback AFTER it turns off.

Well he ain’t finna have anymore stamina if he’s dead lol. Also he does look exhausted so his stamina is still ass.

Spoiler: .

also he looks like he’s going down in the recent chapter

 

[SnookB]

Well he ain’t finna have anymore stamina if he’s dead lol. Also he does look exhausted so his stamina is still ass.

Spoiler: .

also he looks like he’s going down in the recent chapter

I see where you're coming from tbh. We need to see G5 being used from full health since him being dead prior to know if it really does burn is life out or if it's because he was already (technically) dead prior to using it.
I'm lowkey tired of all his forms having a drawback. You'd think awakening would finally unlock it's potential without all the nasty drawbacks of his unmastered abilities

 

[Magmag]

I see where you're coming from tbh. We need to see G5 being used from full health since him being dead prior to know if it really does burn is life out or if it's because he was already (technically) dead prior to using it.
I'm lowkey tired of all his forms having a drawback. You'd think awakening would finally unlock it's potential without all the nasty drawbacks of his unmastered abilities

Well I mean the drawbacks are a must imo, it would be kinda weird to have a win win when upgrading especially in one piece.

 

[SnookB]

Well I mean the drawbacks are a must imo, it would be kinda weird to have a win win when upgrading especially in one piece.

True. It's just weird that the other awakenings we saw don't tax their users to the extent of life drain. Maybe that's a Zoan case and they just stay awakened subconsciously to not get burned out like Luffy

 

[KingTempest]

Yall should forget about the word compression, because now yall sound goofy whenever yall talk about it.

Gear Fourth needed compression EVERYTIME to make Kaido budge while Gear Fifth was regularly fighting back on a similiar level AND can amp itself with compression.

The fact that G4 was needing compression to be a threat while G5 was just throwing hands and working shows that it's greater.

Literally everything Gear 4th does is compression. The entire moveset is compression.

Kong Gun, compression. Python, compression. Culverin, compression. Rhino Schneider, compression.

The entire damn moveset is him compressing his arms then letting it out. Yall didn't say anything about cOmPrEsSiOn until Mitch made a paragraph.

That's like bashing Gear 3rd because "it enlargens his arm. He needs to enlargen his arm to deal damage". Like what

 

[Magmag]

because now yall sound goofy whenever yall talk about it.

Common W from tempest

 

[SnookB]

Literally everything Gear 4th does is compression. The entire moveset is compression.

When G4 one shot a cracker soldier I don't recall the arm cranking happening either. He didn't compress his whole body to break out of Doflamingo's strings either.

Yall didn't say anything about cOmPrEsSiOn until Mitch made a paragraph.

...... Wasn't that the whole point of the paragraph? If that same thing was made prior to Mitch then it'd be accepted all the same. That's the point of good observation/arguments in the first place, to change your perspective.
Either way, It seperates Gear Fourth's regular strength and its striking
My entire point was that G4's attacks (Both Hydra and Over Kong Gun) needed its full tensile force, while G5 didn't rely on that until the very last blow and was still comparable (if not superior) the whole time.

The point is Gear Four Luffy wasn't throwing regular punches. So Gear Five's performance scales off Gear Four's full striking power.

 

[KingTempest]

When G4 one shot a cracker soldier I don't recall the arm cranking happening either.

Yes, he did. He used Kong Gun, which is compressing him arm and shooting it out. You can even see the shockwaves around his arms when he shoots.
Did it again, compressed his arm, then he let it out.

He didn't compress his whole body to break out of Doflamingo's strings either.

Because this was him transforming. He wasn't even attacking, he was just transforming

...... Wasn't that the whole point of the paragraph? If that same thing was made prior to Mitch then it'd be accepted all the same. That's the point of good observation/arguments in the first place, to change your perspective.
Either way, It seperates Gear Fourth's regular strength and its striking

Literally everything G4th does uses that mechanic. That's like separating Luffy's Gear 3rd hits from when it's enlargened and when it's not

My entire point was that G4's attacks (Both Hydra and Over Kong Gun) needed its full tensile force, while G5 didn't rely on that until the very last blow and was still comparable (if not superior) the whole time.

The point is Gear Four Luffy wasn't throwing regular punches. So Gear Five's performance scales off Gear Four's full striking power.

Gear 5th's performance has no feats that make it scale to Gear 4th at all.

 

[SnookB]

Gear 5th's performance has no feats that make it scale to Gear 4th at all.

I musta been reading three piece again

 

[Magmag]

I musta been reading three piece again

4*

 

[KingTempest]

I musta been reading three piece again

You were.

Everything relevant that Luffy did was minor durability negation.

This is all durability negation.

Luffy turning Kaidou's body into rubber so he can effectively attack his insides. None of this is superior AP.

Kaidou was smacking him around.

I don't understand how you guys can look at this and say it's a relative AP fight

 

[SnookB]

4*

Borupiece

 

[Magmag]

Borupiece

Bleapiece

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

W

You were.

Everything relevant that Luffy did was minor durability negation.

This is all durability negation.

Luffy turning Kaidou's body into rubber so he can effectively attack his insides. None of this is superior AP.

Kaidou was smacking him around.

I don't understand how you guys can look at this and say it's a relative AP fight

What's the debate here?

 

[KingTempest]

W

What's the debate here?

Gear 5th apparently being superior to G4th.

Also guys.

"Gear 5th can also do compression"... you do know that's just... combining gears?
It's like G2nd and 3rd, but instead it's G4th and 5th

 

[Damage3245]

Gear 5th apparently being superior to G4th.

Also guys.

"Gear 5th can also do compression"... you do know that's just... combining gears?
It's like G2nd and 3rd, but instead it's G4th and 5th

Indeed. The ultimate move of Gear 4, King Kong Gun, is so powerful because it is combining Gear 4 and 3.

Makes sense that Bajrang Gun is his ultimate move because he's effectively combining Gear 5 and 4 and 3 (and two stat-enhancing Haki types).

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gear 5th apparently being superior to G4th.

It is...

 

[SnookB]

Everything relevant that Luffy did was minor durability negation.

Literally the first series of slammage Kaido took had nothing to do with dura neg and made Kaido dizzy/Drew blood.

Kaidou was smacking him around.

Tanked it.

No-sold it.

Super Hybrid Kaido nearly OHKO'D Gear 4.
Awakened Luffy took that hit then proceeded to force Kaido into using slashing damage.

Kaido himself says Luffy's playing around. Which is more or less right considering he's using unnamed attacks and trying to figure out cool techniques mid-fight.

Gear 5th's performance has no feats that make it scale to Gear 4th at all.

The words of the very guy using it do. If it was below Gear Fourth he wouldn't call it his "peak". Your Peak is generally higher than everything you reached prior. Unless Luffy is lying, then idk.

Gear Five's durability scales to its AP because it doesn't rely on inflation, just full on body control. As a whole, Gear Five isn't below Gear Fourth.

 

[KingTempest]

It is...

"Pinnacle of what I can do" ≠ "Physically stronger than every other form of mine, especially when I have antifeats and I get smacked around by the guy who I was matching in my other forms"

It's clearly an ability thing, not a super duper stat amp

 

[SnookB]

It is...

Oh lookie another translation that says the same thing

 

[Damage3245]

To be fair Luffy no-selling and tanking those hits seemingly has more to do with his enhanced elasticity than a massive increase in durability.

 

[KingTempest]

Literally the first series of slammage Kaido took had nothing to do with dura neg and made Kaido dizzy/Drew blood.

This is him spinning him around, no AP, all lifting when he amps his stats, then he slams him around.

Tanked it.

He screamed it hurts.

No-sold it.

He is screaming in pain, this is deadass the attack from the last page that he just manipulated the ground to avoid

Super Hybrid Kaido nearly OHKO'D Gear 4.

Syper Hybrid Kaidou nearly OHKO'd Gear 4th with a Horai Hakke, not with a regular hit like above

Awakened Luffy took that hit then proceeded to force Kaido into using slashing damage.

Same slashing damage base Luffy pushed off prior?

Kaido himself says Luffy's playing around. Which is more or less right considering he's using unnamed attacks and trying to figure out cool techniques mid-fight.

The dude used him as a jumprope and swung around a pole of lightning like it was a stripper pole.

The words of the very guy using it do. If it was below Gear Fourth he wouldn't call it his "peak". Your Peak is generally higher than everything you reached prior. Unless Luffy is lying, then idk.

Wrong translation

Oh lookie another translation that says the same thing

Pinnacle of what I can do.
Luffy has much superior control over his body.
The Gorosei state that Awakening gives his body more physical strength and freedom. Freedom to manipulate his body, which is why he can grow into a giant and create Onigashima sized fists. Which is why he can amp his muscle mass casually. Which is why he can grab lightning.

Gear Five's durability scales to its AP because it doesn't rely on inflation, just full on body control. As a whole, Gear Five isn't below Gear Fourth.

Scales to his AP with no feats

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

"Pinnacle of what I can do" ≠ "Physically stronger than every other form of mine, especially when I have antifeats and I get smacked around by the guy who I was matching in my other forms"

It's clearly an ability thing, not a super duper stat amp

I should have clarified what I mean... Gear 5th is absolutely superior to Gear 4th in strength, but when I say that, I'm referring to how Luffy can freely amp his size and muscles to be huge and casually throw around Kaidou

When Luffy doesn't amp his size and doesn't even use Buso, he's obviously not stronger than Gear 4th feat-wise

 

[KingTempest]

I should have clarified what I mean... Gear 5th is absolutely superior to Gear 4th in strength, but when I say that, I'm referring to how Luffy can freely amp his size and muscles to be huge and casually throw around Kaidou

When Luffy doesn't amp his size, he's obviously not stronger than Gear 4th feat-wise

Now this is a completely different topic which I obviously agree on.

But people act like the 1.74 meter Gear 5th Luffy with no amps is casually above Gear 4th

 

[SnookB]

This is him spinning him around, no AP, all lifting when he amps his stats, then he slams him around.

Why bother mentioning that at all? It's the same "saying compression for gear four isn't necessary" thing. Gear 5 is a whole state, the stats amp is just its freedom of body control, not a different technique altogether.

Wrong translation

Doesn't contradict the original. Peak/Pinnacle is all the same. If it wasn't the pinnacle of what he could do he wouldn't just say it.

The Gorosei state that Awakening gives his body more physical strength and freedom. Freedom to manipulate his body, which is why he can grow into a giant and create Onigashima sized fists. Which is why he can amp his muscle mass casually.

And those continue to be attributes of Gear Five. The only Gear 4 related amp is the fist compression.


Back to the first answer- Basically the argument of "Saying tensile force is gear 4 is pointless because ALL OF ITS MOVES RELY ON THAT" is the same with Gear 5. All of its amps are related to its body control and therefore in its entirety, the state scales higher than G4 because of everything it incorporates.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Now this is a completely different topic which I obviously agree on.

But people act like the 1.74 meter Gear 5th Luffy with no amps is casually above Gear 4th

That's blatantly false, all Luffy's doing is using Hao Infusion with the weakest form of Buso and no Awakening Amps

You can genuinely argue this Luffy

Is weaker than this Luffy

Since the Gear 5th Luffy doesn't have Buso Koka on

 

[KingTempest]

Why bother mentioning that at all? It's the same "saying compression for gear four isn't necessary" thing. Gear 5 is a whole state, the stats amp is just its freedom of body control, not a different technique altogether.

No it's not.
Compression is G4th Luffy's natural moveset. Every attack he does uses it. Which is why we don't say "higher with compression", because that's G4th's moveset.
Gear 5th's natural moveset is the version of his original shape, and his amps are different and they completely change the game.
Unless you wanna tell me that this Luffy

Takes priority over "Gear 5th" Luffy's regular stats, which are here

Doesn't contradict the original. Peak/Pinnacle is all the same. If it wasn't the pinnacle of what he could do he wouldn't just say it.

Peak of what he can do in the sense of control of his body, which we see throughout the fight.

And those continue to be attributes of Gear Five. The only Gear 4 related amp is the fist compression.

Attributes of a form ≠ regular stats of a form.

Base Luffy has Balloon. I'm not gonna say that Luffy's Balloon dura is the same as his regular dura.

Back to the first answer- Basically the argument of "Saying tensile force is gear 4 is pointless because ALL OF ITS MOVES RELY ON THAT" is the same with Gear 5. All of its amps are related to its body control and therefore in its entirety, the state scales higher than G4 because of everything it incorporates.

Luffy in Gear 4th does not attack without the compression aspect.
Luffy in Gear 5th attacks without the stat amps.
Luffy with his stat amps show a large difference than everything else he pulls out.
You cannot tell me this counts as "regular Gear 5th Luffy" with a straight face, when it's flat out a specific technique he pulls out.

This is like saying Gomu Gomu no Balloon is Base Luffy's regular stats.

 

[KingTempest]

That's blatantly false, all Luffy's doing is using Hao Infusion with the weakest form of Buso and no Awakening Amps

You can genuinely argue this Luffy

Is weaker than this Luffy

Since the Gear 5th Luffy doesn't have Buso Koka on

Base Luffy against Kaifu vs G5th Luffy against Kaifu

Base Luffy against Kaidou's hits vs Gear 5th Luffy against Kaidou's hits

Snakeman Luffy against Bolo Breath vs Gear 5th Luffy against Bolo Breath

Gear 2nd+3rd Luffy against Gundari Ryuseigun vs Gear 5th Luffy vs Gundari Ryuseigun

Yall can be the judge of who did better

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Base Luffy against Kaifu vs G5th Luffy against Kaifu

Base Luffy against Kaidou's hits vs Gear 5th Luffy against Kaidou's hits

Snakeman Luffy against Bolo Breath vs Gear 5th Luffy against Bolo Breath

Gear 2nd+3rd Luffy against Gundari Ryuseigun vs Gear 5th Luffy vs Gundari Ryuseigun

Yall can be the judge of who did better

One huge reminder, Luffy was half dead right before he entered Gear 5th and also used up Gear 4th

This means not only was he critically injured prior to Gear 5th, but he also couldn't use Buso Koka anymore because he used it all up in Gear 4th

It's understandable why he wasn't doing so hot

 

[Eminiteable]

but he also couldn't use Buso Koka anymore because he used it all up in Gear 4th

Late to this discussion (Sorry if it was already discussed) but don't we see and get statements from Kaidou that Luffy was still using Buso/Buso Koka in Gear 5th

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Late to this discussion (Sorry if it was already discussed) but don't we see and get statements from Kaidou that Luffy was still using Buso/Buso Koka in Gear 5th

He wasn't using Buso, but not Koka, his skin would have been black if he used Koka

 

[KingTempest]

He was using Buso, but not Koka, his skin would have been black if he used Koka

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I meant right at the beginning of the fight... Luffy didn't use Buso till 1046

 

[KingTempest]

I meant right at the beginning of the fight... Luffy didn't use Buso till 1046

ohhhh ok

but with that being said, Luffy (in the stuff I sent above) wasn't using Koka (or even Buso for all we know) to block the Gundari Ryuseigun hits in his face

But (not saying you said this) saying G5th did better than any other form prior to Bajrang Gun is dishonest.

 

[Eminiteable]

but he also couldn't use Buso Koka anymore because he used it all up in Gear 4th

Tempest already sent the koka points but doesn't Gear 4th prevent him from using Buso at all so Kaidou saying this suggests either he hadn't run out of Buso from Gear 4th or it had already returned to him by that point.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

But (not saying you said this) saying G5th did better than any other form prior to Bajrang Gun is dishonest.

He did worse, but I don't know why Oda did that... Guess he really wanted to show Gear 5th wasn't broken