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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

KingTempest said:
Gear 5th's natural moveset is the version of his original shape, and his amps are different and they completely change the game.
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The thing is, his "amps" are just part of his body control. Unless you want Gear Five to have "higher with body control" even though every move that form has relies on its body control one way or another.
KingTempest said:
Takes priority over "Gear 5th" Luffy's regular stats, which are here
1047-010.png
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That same form with a weaker move nearly one shot Gear Fourth. Why WOULDN'T it do greater damage than Kaido's basic Kanabo attacks to gear five? If anything that's a show of greater durability because of his body control playing no role in taking that hit and he still didn't get the strength knocked out of him like gear fourth, where he had to actively suck the air back in for one extra attack.
KingTempest said:
You cannot tell me this counts as "regular Gear 5th Luffy" with a straight face, when it's flat out a specific technique he pulls out.
1045-008.png
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The only reason he CAN pull that out is because that form allows it to be the case. It's the nature of Gear Five to allow him so much freedom to do that in the first place.
Gear Five without the greater body control isn't Gear Five.
He can use great size, have better resiliency, take harder hits by having his body mold into the attack, tank two Boro Breaths without guarding (while Snakeman was in Koka and still got roasted) and still not complain about running out of time or power. His greatest concern was Onigashima being under them.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
He did worse, but I don't know why Oda did that... Guess he really wanted to show Gear 5th wasn't broken
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There's the possibility that he just doesn't know how to use the form either.
Luffy developed G2/G3/G4 all off screen and had days/months to train those. Awakening right off the bat just has him improvising to the point where Kaido thought he was just toying around. That and Kaido isn't exactly easy either, especially when we had confirmation that his Haki grows stronger through the fight, so he very well might've just evolved throughout.
 
SnookB said:
The thing is, his "amps" are just part of his body control. Unless you want Gear Five to have "higher with body control" even though every move that form has relies on its body control one way or another.
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Luffy punching Kaidou through his face wasn't body control.
SnookB said:
That same form with a weaker move nearly one shot Gear Fourth. Why WOULDN'T it do greater damage than Kaido's basic Kanabo attacks to gear five? If anything that's a show of greater durability because of his body control playing no role in taking that hit and he still didn't get the strength knocked out of him like gear fourth, where he had to actively suck the air back in for one extra attack.
Click to expand...
"Nearly one shot Gear Fourth". An off guard Gear Fourth who was noticeably and visibly off guard vs an On Guard Gear 5th who grew his arms out.
and he still didn't get the strength knocked out of him like gear fourth
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No, this is a weakness of Gear 4th, losing the air in his body from being partially unconscious, which is why he had to cover his mouth.
The Daiitoku Raimei Hakke knocked out one of Luffy's teeth and gave him a comedic bump on his head, birds and stars spinning around his head, and made him temporarily unconscious just like against G4th.

And let's remember one thing that you seem to forget.
Gear 4th fought a drunk Kaidou.
Gear 5th fought a sober Kaidou.
I don't think I need to prove which one was stronger.
SnookB said:
The only reason he CAN pull that out is because that form allows it to be the case. It's the nature of Gear Five to allow him so much freedom to do that in the first place.
Gear Five without the greater body control isn't Gear Five.
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Gear 5th without greater body control is Gear 5th, just without using the greater body control.
SnookB said:
He can use great size, have better resiliency, take harder hits by having his body mold into the attack, tank two Boro Breaths without guarding (while Snakeman was in Koka and still got roasted) and still not complain about running out of time or power. His greatest concern was Onigashima being under them.
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Growing his size now counts as his regular stats.
Better resiliency with no feats of better resiliency.
Take hits, not harder hits, by manipulating his body, when prior to and after the manipulation he was getting knocked around.
Luffy getting turned to burnt rubber from a Bolo Breath is now tanking.
Not complain about running out of time or power when he pretty blatantly powered down and needed to reactivate the form.

You're trying to compare a balloon who deflates and needs to keep air to a hollow rock which can add more rock mass to itself as justification for "running out of power".
 
KingTempest said:
Luffy punching Kaidou through his face wasn't body control.
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That's a byproduct of awakening. He was turning Kaido to rubber because of the awakening, not because he could always do it.
KingTempest said:
"Nearly one shot Gear Fourth". An off guard Gear Fourth who was noticeably and visibly off guard vs an On Guard Gear 5th who grew his arms out.
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Off guard?? I'm not talking about the last clash with the CP0 agent, I'm talking about the first TBB that knocked the air out of Luffy even though he put Kaido on his back and was going at him right after. That's not "off guard". His mind was still in the fight. That's just Kaido blitzing Luffy.
KingTempest said:
Gear 5th fought a sober Kaidou.
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A Sober Kaidou who could use his Super Hybrid and stronger Baguas all the same. I'm pretty sure Oda forgot to have Kaido act drunk, or he just didn't sober up and stayed in his last phase (bloodlusted/homocidal drunk) for the remainder of the fight.
KingTempest said:
Luffy getting turned to burnt rubber from a Bolo Breath is now tanking.
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Comedic effect, unless you wanna argue Luffy has regeneration quick enough to recover from getting charred to that degree.

KingTempest said:
Not complain about running out of time or power when he pretty blatantly powered down and needed to reactivate the form.
Click to expand...
Because he was DEAD prior to using the form, and said he was croaking again after it faded off. Even Momo noted that his voice was going out again. He just discovered the form and doesn't know how to use the heart-drum to keep it active because he's basically a walking corpse throughout the entirety of the fight.
 
SnookB said:
That's a byproduct of awakening. He was turning Kaido to rubber because of the awakening, not because he could always do it.
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Yes, and this is a method of using Gear 5th without Body Control
SnookB said:
Off guard?? I'm not talking about the last clash with the CP0 agent, I'm talking about the first TBB that knocked the air out of Luffy even though he put Kaido on his back and was going at him right after. That's not "off guard". His mind was still in the fight. That's just Kaido blitzing Luffy.
Click to expand...
So a blitz not off guard. When the mf ends up noticing him and gets absolutely blitzed after trying to hit him with another Over Kong Gun, also, he wasn't guarding.
SnookB said:
A Sober Kaidou who could use his Super Hybrid and stronger Baguas all the same. I'm pretty sure Oda forgot to have Kaido act drunk, or he just didn't sober up and stayed in his last phase (bloodlusted/homocidal drunk) for the remainder of the fight.
Click to expand...
He was washing him without even using Super Hybrid, then fought him without Super Hybrid, then hurt him without using Super Hybrid, then using Super Hybrid while Luffy was on guard, amped mass, and guarding, badly hurt him.

"Stronger Baguas" the only thing he used on him was a Daiitoku Raimei Hakke w/ his Super Hybrid. Everything else was his regular hybrid.
And he wasn't drunk at all. Wasn't in super hybrid either. This is the same Kaidou who fought Law and Zoro, while G4th and other gears fought a stronger Luffy.
SnookB said:
Comedic effect, unless you wanna argue Luffy has regeneration quick enough to recover from getting charred to that degree.
Click to expand...
The whole form is comedic effect. He got charred twice and Yamato even notes the damage.
SnookB said:
Because he was DEAD prior to using the form, and said he was croaking again after it faded off. Even Momo noted that his voice was going out again. He just discovered the form and doesn't know how to use the heart-drum to keep it active because he's basically a walking corpse throughout the entirety of the fight.
Click to expand...
So don't use it as a counter if you don't agree with it yourself.

You: Luffy wasn't complaining about stamina and power in G5th but he did in G4th
Me: The mf flat out ran out of power
You: Because he died.
 
KingTempest said:
So a blitz not off guard. When the mf ends up noticing him and gets absolutely blitzed after trying to hit him with another Over Kong Gun, also, he wasn't guarding.
Click to expand...
That just goes down to him not being fast enough to react to Kaido. It's off guard because he failed to keep up, not a traditional "his back was turned" off guard.
KingTempest said:
He was washing him without even using Super Hybrid
Click to expand...
"Washing" you say, as you show 2 pages of Luffy no selling his attacks-
KingTempest said:
then fought him without Super Hybrid,
Click to expand...
Where he again no-sells the dragon swarm attack--
KingTempest said:
then hurt him without using Super Hybrid
Click to expand...
And he hurt gear four with dragon Zoan form, so not a lot to go off of there other than "Kaido continues fighting back"
KingTempest said:
then using Super Hybrid while Luffy was on guard, amped mass, and guarding, badly hurt him.
Click to expand...
The fact that Luffy was fast enough compared to Boundman to raise his guard before getting hit shows that Awakening is a boost.
"Badly hurt", yes. But didn't almost knock him out the state. Luffy even had the time to grab on to him while he was using that attack.
KingTempest said:
Wasn't in super hybrid either
Click to expand...
You sent a scan right above that he used Super Hybrid. Kaido doesn't STAY in it, he usually uses it for one/two hits (Thunder Bellow Bagua, Lightning hammered, and now Death Destroyer)
KingTempest said:
The whole form is comedic effect. He got charred twice and Yamato even notes the damage.
Click to expand...
She says "He took the full brunt of it head on", but doesn't note the damage. She just says he took it.
KingTempest said:
Me: The mf flat out ran out of power
You: Because he died.
Click to expand...
Because he "WAS" dead. Luffy was dead prior to Gear 5, doesn't know how to control it and started dying when he stopped the heart-drum. The dude was literally saying "I'm not at my limit" instead of worrying about it dropping out, a second before it drops out.
If his heart was in perfect shape and kept a consistent beat, it wouldn't fall out. The fact that he had to reactivate it with the gear second stance (which you already know acts like doping) proves that he was forcing his heart to beat faster again.


I'll say the last bit is mostly an assumption if not a reach, but we might get an answer for it if 1050/1051 shows him dead because of the heart-beat from Awakening stopping
 
SnookB said:
That just goes down to him not being fast enough to react to Kaido. It's off guard because he failed to keep up, not a traditional "his back was turned" off guard.
Click to expand...
And he wasn't guarding. That's why he's off guard. He wasn't prepared for the attack and he didn't guard.
SnookB said:
"Washing" you say, as you show 2 pages of Luffy no selling his attacks-
Click to expand...
It's funny how people screaming in pain is "no selling"
SnookB said:
Where he again no-sells the dragon swarm attack--
Click to expand...
"No-sells" is a funny phrase
SnookB said:
And he hurt gear four with dragon Zoan form, so not a lot to go off of there other than "Kaido continues fighting back"
Click to expand...
You mean when biting him and a point blank drunk Bolo Breath, which scorched G5th?
SnookB said:
The fact that Luffy was fast enough compared to Boundman to raise his guard before getting hit shows that Awakening is a boost.
"Badly hurt", yes. But didn't almost knock him out the state. Luffy even had the time to grab on to him while he was using that attack.
Click to expand...
Who the **** said it's not a boost?
I said it's not as strong.

And what does him not almost being knocked out of it have to do with anything? Are you comparing it to the form which requires him to keep air in his body?
SnookB said:
You sent a scan right above that he used Super Hybrid. Kaido doesn't STAY in it, he usually uses it for one/two hits (Thunder Bellow Bagua, Lightning hammered, and now Death Destroyer)
Click to expand...
Kaidou doesn't have to stay in it, but he stayed in it against Luffy prior to G5th. Didn't stay in it against G5th. He only used it once against G5th
SnookB said:
She says "He took the full brunt of it head on", but doesn't note the damage. She just says he took it.
Click to expand...
And the dude is freefalling in mid air and scorched.
SnookB said:
Because he "WAS" dead. Luffy was dead prior to Gear 5, doesn't know how to control it and started dying when he stopped the heart-drum. The dude was literally saying "I'm not at my limit" instead of worrying about it dropping out, a second before it drops out.
If his heart was in perfect shape and kept a consistent beat, it wouldn't fall out. The fact that he had to reactivate it with the gear second stance (which you already know acts like doping) proves that he was forcing his heart to beat faster again.
Click to expand...
So basically this point doesn't matter
 
KingTempest said:
And he wasn't guarding. That's why he's off guard. He wasn't prepared for the attack and he didn't guard.

It's funny how people screaming in pain is "no selling"

"No-sells" is a funny phrase

You mean when biting him and a point blank drunk Bolo Breath, which scorched G5th?

Who the **** said it's not a boost?
I said it's not as strong.

And what does him not almost being knocked out of it have to do with anything? Are you comparing it to the form which requires him to keep air in his body?

Kaidou doesn't have to stay in it, but he stayed in it against Luffy prior to G5th. Didn't stay in it against G5th. He only used it once against G5th

And the dude is freefalling in mid air and scorched.

So basically this point doesn't matter
Click to expand...
I'mma have to call time out right here, chief-

Technically now that the fight is over can't we actually make a thread about G5 additions and discuss that there-? I just don't want this one to be crowded with the topic
 
SnookB said:
I'mma have to call time out right here, chief-

Technically now that the fight is over can't we actually make a thread about G5 additions and discuss that there-? I just don't want this one to be crowded with the topic
Click to expand...
Ykw?

You're not wrong.

I'll handle it, but I'll leave AP out. I have AP planned for the big thread
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
I'm surprised that you're not catching up to the anime since there's over 80 episodes from where you left off.
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I haven't watched the anime in... 🤔 wait, uh January last year? 🤔 so basically I was caught up ep 930 or something and I have been waiting up until now 🙈
 
Post luffy, Pre luffy, Kid luffy, Wano Luffy, Wano luffy 2, Onigashima luffy, Pre timeskip gomu gomu skill card 1-4

So I think we will get something 🤔 about gear 4th and 5th... Maybe 🥲
 
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