- 6,228
- 6,229
Probably, in which case then I don't know.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece Chapter 1010: "Haoshoku" (Official Release)
- Thread starter Eminiteable
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece
- Status
- 5,107
- 1,786
@Mr.Cinos15 - I'd honestly say Kaido is stronger in his Dragon Form, it's just that his mobility is terrible due to his massive size, hence why he's caught off guard by these small/quick opponents. His Hybrid Form gives him the best of both worlds where he has access to his Dragon Form attacks while maintaining his humanoid physique and mobility... also benefits from partial transformation to his legs and having a tail.
in any case, all of the characters we've seen fight Kaido in this battle are each a fraction if not outright comparable to him in power (Though I'd say only Luffy is comparable while the rest are weaker at varying levels).
Also, Law can get barrier creation since we see him make a wall (via Curtain) that helps him withstand one of Kaido's attacks.
Isn't it a little strange that Kaido took a Gamma Knife to the chest (we don't know if Law actually hit any organs tho), then an Injection Shot through the throat, and he's perfectly healthy?
- One of his breath attacks destroyed Kiku's sword and removed an arm. It would've been a one-shot kill had the attack been more than an inch closer to Kiku's body. Even his direct blow with his Kanabo didn't kill any of the Scabbards (most likely plot convenience, though I fail to see the purpose since letting all of them survive the fight lowers the stakes a lot)
in any case, all of the characters we've seen fight Kaido in this battle are each a fraction if not outright comparable to him in power (Though I'd say only Luffy is comparable while the rest are weaker at varying levels).
Also, Law can get barrier creation since we see him make a wall (via Curtain) that helps him withstand one of Kaido's attacks.
Isn't it a little strange that Kaido took a Gamma Knife to the chest (we don't know if Law actually hit any organs tho), then an Injection Shot through the throat, and he's perfectly healthy?
- 6,228
- 6,229
Yeah, that's fair.
I also think that no one (besides Luffy right now) is Kaido's peer in terms of power, although they can certainly hurt him.
Always nice to see Law use new moves, so 6-B dura barrier.
Either Kaido has very durable insides compared to other people, his Haki (willpower) is strong enough to weaken Law's offensive abilities or weaken their effect on him, or he's got endurance for days. Maybe he's got some special ability from the dragon fruit that protects him from these types of attack or at least diminishes the damage from these types of attacks, but that's unlikely.
I also think that no one (besides Luffy right now) is Kaido's peer in terms of power, although they can certainly hurt him.
Always nice to see Law use new moves, so 6-B dura barrier.
Either Kaido has very durable insides compared to other people, his Haki (willpower) is strong enough to weaken Law's offensive abilities or weaken their effect on him, or he's got endurance for days. Maybe he's got some special ability from the dragon fruit that protects him from these types of attack or at least diminishes the damage from these types of attacks, but that's unlikely.
- 10,901
- 14,204
Zoro is daddy. That is all.
- 21,088
- 30,018
Guys
In order to keep the scaling of "the strongest man" consistent and to not scale Luffy end of Wano > Roger and WB.
Kaido and Linlin's base scale to Blackbeard now instead of Shanks, and Linlin with a flaming Napoleon and Hybrid Kaido scale to Shanks, just so they don't seem superior to Whitebeard
In order to keep the scaling of "the strongest man" consistent and to not scale Luffy end of Wano > Roger and WB.
Kaido and Linlin's base scale to Blackbeard now instead of Shanks, and Linlin with a flaming Napoleon and Hybrid Kaido scale to Shanks, just so they don't seem superior to Whitebeard
- 10,901
- 14,204
Yeah, I mean tbh them scaling to him in their respective bases wouldn't make sense if we're going with the notion that he's the "World's Strongest Man". It'd mean they are stronger with their power-ups, so yeah this makes more sense.
- 29,668
- 24,558
We don't know if the effects of these attacks will accumulate within Kaido's body to weaken him later on.
- 2,691
- 952
then shouldnt kaido and linlin get 2 keys?
- 21,088
- 30,018
- 2,691
- 952
So the higher would represent the 26 teratons? Or would they just be 14 and higher
- 21,088
- 30,018
"Higher" is between 14 and 26.
"Even higher" is around 26.
- 10,901
- 14,204
- 5,107
- 1,786
I disagree with "Even higher in Hybrid form" This isn't supported. Also, we need to be taking Haki into consideration since it can be reasonable for Human + Haki amps > Dragon form attacks with no Haki amps.
Also you have circular scaling with Kaido and Big Mom.
- 21,088
- 30,018
He was getting bodied in his previous forms so he uses his hybrid.
He's portrayed to be stronger in his hybrid form.
Zoro says that it doesn't feel as if their attacks are doing anything to his hybrid, even though he noticeably damaged him on multiple occasions in his previous forms.
Linlin says to give them "a big one" after he transforms into his hybrid form.
Hit Luffy straight on with a regular attack while his base Thunder Bagua got partially dodged.
Yeah it's supported.
We'll handle the Haki amps in your future Haki thread
First form > Blackbeard
Second form > First Form
Third form ~ Shanks
- 5,107
- 1,786
1) He was getting "bodied" in Base because he stood there and took the hits intentionally. He was getting "bodied" in Full transform because he is a big target and also cuz he is arrogant. In Hybrid form, ALL attacks we see connected caused him to bleed.
2) He's not portrayed as being stronger.
3) Just like 1, we see hybrid bleeding from their attacks just like when his full transformation was hit. The reason it feels like they aren't doing anything is because Kaido's only been suffering superficial damage (ironic considering Law's attacks can pierce him). All of their attacks from start to finish have been considered "shallow".
4) "a big one" because they are going to combine their power and use a named attack.
5) What does this have to do with Hybrid > Full? You're comparing Base to Hybrid.
Not supported.
-----
First Form > Blackbeard funnily enough isn't supported. Kaido in general is considered capable of stopping BB, but it's never said he could do so in base form.
If anything, Kaido should just be "6-B (~26TT), higher with Haki". The guy has fought the other 6-Bs, but context is left out.
- 2,691
- 952
Has there been any method of being able to quantifiably scale haki to the profiles?
- 16,908
- 11,916
Gonna have to disagree there to be honest, Zoro with Enma and Dragon Blaze made Kaido cautious of the attack, while Dragon Blaze isn't near Zoro's strongest attack.
Zoro overpowered his Dragon Twister with his own Twister and slashed him, causing Kaido to remember Oden's attack on him. That signifies that his attack did notable damage to his Dragon Form.
Kaido's Hybrid form ate Zoro's strongest attack, Playing with the Dead which vastly superior to Dragon Blaze which Kaido was wary of, Zoro's Tatsumaki that cut his dragon form, and his Asura only caused a relatively minimal amount of damage to his Hybrid form.
- 5,107
- 1,786
Kaido was worried about the attack, but there's no evidence it would have seriously wounded him. He only showed concern because he sensed Oden's presence. We see Zoro use an attack later (Enma + Haki, and Kaido noting the blade having Oden's presence again), which cut Kaido's scales, getting a reaction out of both Kaido and Big Mom.
Zoro did not overpower Kaido's twisters. He just hit Kaido with his own. Kaido's were no where near him. And besides, the attack didn't do much damage anyways.
Kaido was wary of Dragon Blaze cuz it would hurt him and he sensed Oden's presence and couldn't understand why. Kaido only suffered minor damage from the Dragon Twister. Hybrid Kaido literally freaked out over the Ashura attack and noted that it would leave a scar on him. He definitely didn't tank it.
The point is that none of the attacks the Supernova landed on Kaido went beyond doing slight damage. Zoro's Ashura attack so far has been the most impactful.
The issue is that every character that did some damage to Kaido said "the attacks are too shallow" (including the Dragon Twister you say did more damage than the Ashura one) yet we see most of them go straight into his body. BULL SHET.
- 16,908
- 11,916
Oden is the same person who left a permanent scar on Kaido, the fact that Enma contains Oden's presence / Haki speaks magnitudes for the blade itself.
I fail to see the point here, this just seems like pandering. Zoro's been shown to damage Kaido and draw blood from his dragon form without the aid of his strongest attack.
False, Zoro did in fact overpower Kaido's Dragon Twister. Zoro and Luffy were caught up in Kaido's Dragon Twister, Kaido swallowed Luffy and Zoro uses his own Dragon Twister. The two were extremely close to one another and after Zoro's Black Rope Twister Kaido's shown is gone. "You dare challenge me to a dragon Twister?"
The attack did damage nonetheless, he placed a wound across Kaido's chest that stretched from his scales to his lower body.
The key words here, the attack would still hurt Kaido the same way Oden did. Him not understanding why is irrelevant, as he knows that the sword contains Oden's Haki.
Minor damage isn't leaving a wound spanning from the back of Kaido's scales to his stomach and causing him to spit Luffy back up in pain. Minor damage is bruises, small cuts, etc.
Kaido literally ate it and is continuing to fight Luffy. Not to mention Kaido only "freaked" is because he thought Zoro had Haoshoku Haki, and going by your own words that's a reoccurring gag. Kaido wasn't remotely near as damaged as you make him out to be.
Slight damage isn't leaving medium sized wounds, halting his Flame-Breath, etc.
Because that's Zoro's strongest attack. An attack from base Zoro was able to harm Kaido's Dragon Form, which you argue to be stronger than his Hybrid Form. Zoro's Asura was only able to leave a scar on Kaido and didn't even put Kaido down on his knees.
That's once again false. "Ah that hurts!", Law Gamma Knifed his heart and Luffy literally put Kaido down on his ass in Gear Forth after an all out assault with Goken. Also nice Strawman, I never once said or insinuated Dragon Blaze >>> Asura, what I'm saying is that Zoro in base can damage Dragon Kaido, while Asura Zoro can only leave a scar on Kaido's body that didn't even stop his rampage. Zoro's Black-Rope at least momentarily stunned Dragon Kaido.
Whitebeard can fight with half his brain vaporized, I don't think Oda gives a **** about endurance.
- 21,088
- 30,018
He took them in base.
In full transformation they wounded him consistently. Even without full Enma Zoro cut him, Linlin said "he cut him" and Kaido said "that hurts".
Yes, he is.
Hybrid Forms are always portrayed as being stronger than the other forms. Look at CP9 or Page 1 and X Drake.
Hybrid Kaido bled from 2 attacks.
Injection shot and Ashura.
Hybrid needed Zoro's strongest attack ever to harm him and it didn't put him down, while his previous attacks all consistently hurt Kaido
And that technique was portrayed to be the strongest technique done by them.
Even Zoro said "this one's bad", and he had no issue jumping into boro breaths.
Nvm
Most of the world knows of Kaido's base form.
This is the same logic with Charlotte Cracker's cracker soldiers
If you want Kaido to be > WB then I'll change it.
- 29,668
- 24,558
I know this is just general discussion in preparation for the future, but we don't need to debate the exact ratings too heavily right now. We're going to keep getting new info over the next few chapters.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
- 6,603
- Thread starter
- #142
Bump fan translations are out
- 8,887
- 7,397
Yes! Zoro has used Asura once again, what a wonderful moment, it will be awesome in the anime.
I was just waiting for him to use it, I really didn't like how that technique was left behind and forgotten.
And Zoro having conqueror's haki is neat.
And speaking of which, now it is finally does something useful instead of just knocking out worthless grunts.
However, I don't really like how it seems an extension of the armor haki, the two look too similar now.
Also, I like how Oda gives the power to attack internal organs to a lot of characters, first Lucci with the Rokoushiki, then Law with that technique of which I don't remember the name and now to the conqueror's haki users.
I was just waiting for him to use it, I really didn't like how that technique was left behind and forgotten.
And Zoro having conqueror's haki is neat.
And speaking of which, now it is finally does something useful instead of just knocking out worthless grunts.
However, I don't really like how it seems an extension of the armor haki, the two look too similar now.
Also, I like how Oda gives the power to attack internal organs to a lot of characters, first Lucci with the Rokoushiki, then Law with that technique of which I don't remember the name and now to the conqueror's haki users.
- 3,193
- 2,584
Looks like Zoro was using Conqueror's Haki unconsciously ... Which is rather neat. If Asura really is Haoshoku, that means Zoro unknowingly used at least two types of Haki before Luffy did
Also, I really like this route of people, especially pirates learning these Haki skills by using them unconsciously as opposed to actually learning from some sort of a teacher. Makes for some nice moments
Also, I really like this route of people, especially pirates learning these Haki skills by using them unconsciously as opposed to actually learning from some sort of a teacher. Makes for some nice moments
Last edited:
- 7,715
- 2,348
I mean, why Shanks scales to Newgate instead of Teach? It seems a bit strange to have the Yonkou who have power ups to be at most comparable to the Yonkou with less information so far.
Also, Internal Haki is one thing and Offensive Haoshoku is another, or they are the same thing?
Also, Kaido just used advanced haki+hybrid+speed blitz and did absolutely nothing. I think i don't have to say anything.
- 3,054
- 1,015
I'm not sure this chapter made it clear that Zoro has CoC. Kaido just asked if he had it, it was not a statement. And Zoro denies that the next moment. I also didn't notice any black lightning coming from Zoro's Ashura, which is commonly seen in attacks by Haoshoku users. Maybe I'm also wrong again, but I had this feeling.
- 10,901
- 14,204
Zoro didn't deny it, he just didn't know what Kaido was talking about. Which is weird because he definitely knows about CoC given his statement on Fishman Island about Luffy.
- 21,088
- 30,018
- 10,743
- 4,346
Yeah this week had another awesome moment for Zoro it’s great to see Asura used again and I also like seeing Law get his part as well (new ability of his seems interesting) and Luffy with conquerors Haki is really great I’ve been looking forward to seeing what it looks like in a more advanced form for a while. And his stand off at the end with Kaido was really hype for me. One Piece continues to be on a roll.
- 2,691
- 952
I don’t think oda would have a reason to put that. He obviously had intentions behind it.
- 3,054
- 1,015
In the translation I read he says: "I don't know what you're saying, I just used all my strength to defeat you". He denied by saying that he did not use Haoshoku but brute force. There is a possibility that he used Haoshoku without a clue, yes, but that is not said in the chapter.
Oda is a master at confusing the reader, he also had no reason to make the audience think that Oden had come back to life.
- 3,193
- 2,584
I think there's a good possibility that the original Admirals, Sengoku and Garp would be able to damage Kaido and they are not Haoshoku users (at least not confirmed AFAIK)
- 2,691
- 952
With oden that's a fair assessment, but I think for this there has to be a reason as to why Kaido mentioned Haoshoku. He's literally clashed with BM, who also has haoshoku haki, and fought roger and garp in their prime, so he should know what he is actually talking about, it doesn't make sense for oda to not say that.
- 29,668
- 24,558
Just to note, when the use of an ability is ambiguous we can put "Possibly/Likely" for the ability.
- 7,715
- 2,348
And that attack had Newgate's full power because? Was it even gurafied?
Also, isn't it amazing that we are close to 3x6B now? I mean, if Haoshoku and Internal are different things as you said then Luffy may get a possibly 6B at base. I think OP was never that high in AP, right?
Last edited:
- 1,690
- 1,191
To me it seems like Oda is heavily trolling this Zoro Haoshoku Haki, 2 times in the last like 11 chapters. I think Zoro has it but it may be a different kind of some sort.
Well it’s the freshest we’ve seen old Wb, and I don’t think Oda would’ve made them split the clouds if he intended on Wb holding back in that clash.
Nah 8-C downgrade thread incoming next week.
- 15,325
- 14,945
Kaido: “Ha, you have Conqueror’s Haki as well? And you’ll leave a scar, I must say you are rather impessive Zoro”
Luffy: “THAT’S ENOUGH!!!”
Kaido: “Huh?”
Luffy: “I’m the main character! Not Zoro! Everyone leave right ******* now, I’m about to body this man solo!”
Luffy: “THAT’S ENOUGH!!!”
Kaido: “Huh?”
Luffy: “I’m the main character! Not Zoro! Everyone leave right ******* now, I’m about to body this man solo!”
- 3,193
- 2,584
Luffy got a powerup simply out of envy and being left out of the spotlight for a couple of chapters .... LOL
- Status
