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One Piece: AP Revision of High Tiers

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I don't remember if we scaled characters to that.
 
We used to, but reasonably speaking, nobody should scale directly to that.
 
I haven't seen Pica's page yet, if it needs fixing I'll do that when I am able to.
 
I am neutral about Pica, but everybody at Doflamingo's level and above should be 6-C (Or High 6-C in the cases of the Yonkou, the logia admirals, and Mihawk).
 
I'll have to rewatch that fight (Assuming it does not differ from the canon) but if Strings' Birdcage is somethign that requires prep and/or Awakening then I don't see how that scales to his regilar strings which he spams.

Also, I agree with Torch. Simply upgrading only for the sake of appeasing a few people just demeens the credibility of this forum and the people on it.
 
Dr.Fix said:
I'll have to rewatch that fight (Assuming it does not differ from the canon) but if Strings' Birdcage is somethign that requires prep and/or Awakening then I don't see how that scales to his regilar strings which he spams.
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He didn't use Awakening strings for creating the Bird-Cage but only his standard ones, only when he was getting stomped is where he has started to use his Awakening strings.

And neither is preparation time, with the defeat of Sugar the Bird-Cage was Doflamingo's last resort to prevent anyone from get out alive and reveal all his lies to the world.

And yes he didn't instantly create it in a blink of an eye, but he still create it in a matter of seconds.
 
Well, I'm finally back at my rightful place by my PC and I can get on with revisions. I wish all this drama hadn't happened to happen while I was away and unable to make meaningful posts.

Now then, I want to clear up a couple misconceptions:

1) The calc was for the Birdcage's durability, not its AP. It would be a bit disingenuous in my view to assign to the value of the calc to Doflamingo's typical AP.

2) Not all Doflamingo's strings are equal. I have already clarified at the very beginning of the thread why Black Knight and Birdcage aren't equal. Assuming every single string Doflamingo throws out has the same level of power behind it as the Birdcage is not good considering how much time was spent depicting the Birdcage as being virtually unstoppable and required the combined strength of Fujitora, the gladiators, marines and half of the Straw Hat Crew to even slow it down.

3) Awakened Strings aren't necessarily significantly more powerful than his regular strings. It's the same Devil Fruit, it's just a different application of his powers (turning inanimate objects into strings instead of making them from his body), and having Haki on them isn't anything special since even Doflamingo's regular string attacks have Haki on them.

4) I do agree with making Gear 4 Luffy as 6-C, but I do think that Doflamingo's typical AP is still At least High 7-A.

5) Big Mom's Yonkou Commanders (as they get their scaling from Gear 4 Luffy) should also be 6-C, and any characters comparable to them.
 
Which is why the Black Knight scales to base Luffy, and not to the Birdcage.
 
Damage3245 said:
3) Awakened Strings aren't necessarily significantly more powerful than his regular strings. It's the same Devil Fruit, it's just a different application of his powers (turning inanimate objects into strings instead of making them from his body), and having Haki on them isn't anything special since even Doflamingo's regular string attacks have Haki on them.
Click to expand...
The normal threads of Doffy were completely destroyed by Luffy in Gear 4th as they flexed his muscles while his Awakened strings were able to withstand Gomu Gomu in Double Culverin of Luffy Gear 4th without Haki and apparently with no visible damage, so yes, Doffy Awakened strings are far stronger than his normal strings.
 
That can pretty simply be explained by Doflamingo summoning a huge quantity of strings at once. Awakening does grant him greater numbers of strings at least, and a massive wall of strings is going to be more durable than a few individual strings he was using to control Luffy's movements.
 
Damage3245 said:
2) Not all Doflamingo's strings are equal. I have already clarified at the very beginning of the thread why Black Knight and Birdcage aren't equal. Assuming every single string Doflamingo throws out has the same level of power behind it as the Birdcage is not good considering how much time was spent depicting the Birdcage as being virtually unstoppable and required the combined strength of Fujitora, the gladiators, marines and half of the Straw Hat Crew to even slow it down.
Click to expand...
Not all his techniques must be as powerful as the Bird-Cage, but i think is far to assume that his Awakening techniques are superior to his standard ones, which include the Bird-Cage as well, since he can utilize far massive numbers of strings than normal to perform his offensive/defensive moves.

The Bird-Cage has taken large amount of strings for be made, but is likely that Doflamingo with his Awakening can create just as much strings to perform his attacks like God Thread or the Off White.
 
God Thread explicitly only uses 16 strings.

Off White is an Awakened technique.
 
Actaully, if we go by the amount of the strings created, the Bird Cage has far far more strings than Doflamingo's awakening. The Bird Cage surrounds an area of 43 km, which is a LOT.
 
Captain Torch said:
Actaully, if we go by the amount of the strings created, the Bird Cage has far far more strings than Doflamingo's awakening. The Bird Cage surrounds an area of 43 km, which is a LOT.
Click to expand...
The Bird Cage itself is larger but is made by much smaller strings.

While with Awakening Doffy can create columns of strings of the size of buildings or turn an entire battlefield intro a sea of strings, the same ones that he used to create his Awakening based techniques like the God Thread.
 
Antvasima said:
If Luffy can break the god thread, which focuses Doflamingo's full power, it is a safe bet that it is just as formidable as Doflamingo's other most powerful techniques.
Click to expand...
I already agreed that Luffy's G4 form should be rated 6-C, I just wanted to make there wasn't any fallicious reasoning going into it which is why I asked for a chance to explain things.
 
@Damage3245

Okay. No problem.
 
@Sigurd

Gwynbleidd was one of our best calcers, and he performed the calculation.

DontTalk is likely our best calcer, and he accepted it, as did The Living Tribunal1, who is also very skilled.

Illuminati478 also accepted it, and he was a calc group member, although I no longer remember how skilled he was.
 
Just some clarification. DontTalk only accepted the method, not the calc itself. The method is indeed correct, however the values entered weren't checked by anybody, and they are actually very shaky, and incorrect in my opinion.
 
Well, you can ask DontTalkDT to check the calculation again if you wish, but you have to explain why the values are incorrect.
 
You can ask if DontTalkDT is willing to write a new version of the calculation if necessary. You can tell him that I would appreciate the help.
 
In the meantime, you can tell us here why you think that the values should be adjusted.
 
Alright.

The method itself in the calculatio is correct. It finds the magnitude of the earthquake in richter scale, converts it into seismic wave energy, which gives us the DC.

However in order to find the magnitude of the earthquake, he entered these values into the asteroid impact calculator. The distance is correct, since it was calculated beforehand. However I still don't get where he got the idea that the "projectile diameter" is 50 km. Not to mention that he uses 3000 kg/m^3 as the density, which is the density of cement. The target type being sedementary rock is also out of nowhere.

And depending on the diameter/density, the output can vary a lot. I'm not even sure how the magnitude of Whitebeard's quake can be calculated using asteroid impact, given that the calculator uses completely different values.

The best bet would be to use the magnitutde that Narutoforums got, which is 4.5. However the result wouldn't even be in the gigatons.
 
I haven't got a clue right now about the whitebeard calc, but Damage seems to make some detailed points about why the birdcage does not scale. I'm more inclined to side with that over Awakened Duffy is stronger and can spam birdcage just cause . . . .
 
As far as I understood, I and Damage have come to an agreement to scale the bird cage to Doflamingo's other strongest attack, which Luffy overpowered.
 
Anyway, regarding the Whitebeard calculation, 3 calc group members accepted it, and another performed it in the first place, so for the time being, it should remain.
 
Damage3245 said:
That can pretty simply be explained by Doflamingo summoning a huge quantity of strings at once. Awakening does grant him greater numbers of strings at least, and a massive wall of strings is going to be more durable than a few individual strings he was using to control Luffy's movements.
Click to expand...
^^Doesn't look that way. Damage agrred that Luffy should probably be 6-c, not Duffy.
 
Dr.Fix said:
^^Doesn't look that way. Damage agrred that Luffy should probably be 6-c, not Duffy.
Click to expand...
I think a simpler way of summing up Luffy and Doffy is this:

Luffy: At least 7-A (base), High 7-A (G2/G3), 6-C (G4), possibly higher with other forms

Doffy: At least High 7-A (base), 6-C with strongest attacks.

Doffy and his Black Knight could easily handle base Luffy and content with G2/G3 Luffy. G4 Luffy for the most part was unharmed by Doflamingo, and stomped him in return.

Does anyone have any immediate problems with this?
 
Looks good to me. The changes to Luffy are based on canon multipliers yes? Might want to make sure that is included as reasoning in the bio.
 
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