On the topic of Raikage and Mifune's speed (Naruto)

[Nullflowerblush]

The only time Mifune ever used this attack on-screen was during the War against the Ten-Tails.

EDIT: Mifune did confront Sasuke at the Summit after his battle with Ay, but Mifune simply lunged at him and attacked him mid-air, to which Sasuke defended himself. This was a simple slash, though, and was not the Flash.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

[Redacted]

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Madara using an LS attack doesn't imply that other characters can't have one either. See an example in One Piece, Kizaru who is one of the admirals that in theory is equivalent to the Yonkous has LS attack and several other characters far below him also have. It's just an attack, Madara still scale to Naruto himself who has 2x faster than "Light Fang". These outlier "justifications" sincerely border on the ridiculous...

I don't disagree. But context is important.
It would just be very odd for Six Paths Naruto to react to Issen the same way he reacted to Lightfang. Again, there's no reason why that's not the case, but it's arguable that's not narrative was going for.
Either way, I still support the LS Attack Speed.

 

[GTsek]

I don't disagree. But context is important.
It would just be very odd for Six Paths Naruto to react to Issen the same way he reacted to Lightfang. Again, there's no reason why that's not the case, but it's arguable that's not narrative was going for.
Either way, I still support the LS Attack Speed.

From what I've read here, the logic of the guys here is like: "It doesn't make sense characters inferior to Madara Jinchuuriki to have a technique of the same speed as his "Light Fang"." Following this logic, all of Raiton's techniques that are considered lightning speed here on this wiki should be downgraded, because Madara used a jutsu that creates natural lightning, so no character inferior to him can have a technique of this level.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It would just be very odd for Six Paths Naruto to react to Issen the same way he reacted to Lightfang.

I mean, to be fair, he dodged it pretty easily from close range. The speed of the attack isn't necessarily what made it dangerous, it was mainly its cutting power, which the DB reiterated.
But I digress, we should probably wait for Qliphoth to settle this matter.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

From what I've read here, the logic of the guys here is like: "It doesn't make sense characters inferior to Madara Jinchuuriki to have a technique of the same speed as his "Light Fang"." Following this logic, all of Raiton's techniques that are considered lightning speed here on this wiki should be downgraded, because Madara used a jutsu that creates natural lightning, so no character inferior to him can have a technique of this level.

I don't think that's even the case, it's just bizarre due to context of having a God Tier with a Lightspeed attack stated to be undodgable in the Databook (As in, the speed is relevant), but use a statement from that same Databook for a lower tier in the same regard.
Again, I don't disagree, but I do see their point.

 

[USklaverei]

I always thought this referred exclusively to Mifune.

 

[GTsek]

I don't think that's even the case, it's just bizarre due to context of having a God Tier with a Lightspeed attack stated to be undodgable in the Databook (As in, the speed is relevant), but use a statement from that same Databook for a lower tier in the same regard.
Again, I don't disagree, but I do see their point.

I can bring here a scan from the Databook that mentions that Katsuyu's acid is "impossible to dodge" if you wanted. And the most curious thing about Acid and Light Fang is that they both have the "impossible to dodge" in the description but in the example image, Naruto (Light Fang) and Manda (Acid) are dodging...

These statments have a figurative meaning

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I still want to put it out there that depending on context the kanji used for lightspeed could be lightning speed. The only thing anyone has said in response is “Qliphoth translated it to LS”. But it’s not like Qliphoth can ask the author or the JP staff who wrote it and ask about the context like the English VIZ staff can, and Qliphoth even said in a post linked by Cyber acknowledging the fact that “lightning speed” is a valid translation iirc.

Like Itachi’s statement is structured 100% the same as Mifune’s, but his is translated to lightning speed. There’s no context in the sentence through other words to indicate such, it’s purely a language thing. Same for Mifune, nothing in there to indicate whether or not it’s lightning or light, except currently people wanting to go with the LS translation.

So does anyone have a reason to say the translation contextually means light speed over lightning speed? That’s not “bUt SoMeOnE eLsE tRaNsLaTeD iT tO LS”.

If we take it to a vote and staff vote LS I’ll stop bringing this up, but no ones addressed my concerns over the intricacies/subtleties of going from JP to English.

 

[GTsek]

I always thought this referred exclusively to Mifune.

Me too, but Qliphoth said they are two separate sentences, and after reading it again, I interpreted that the second sentence is using
the Mifune as a comparison. Something like saying that the technique combine with Mifune's swordsmanship and sword.

 

[GTsek]

I still want to put it out there that depending on context the kanji used for lightspeed could be lightning speed. The only thing anyone has said in response is “Qliphoth translated it to LS”. But it’s not like Qliphoth can ask the author or the JP staff who wrote it and ask about the context like the English VIZ staff can, and Qliphoth even said in a post linked by Cyber acknowledging the fact that “lightning speed” is a valid translation iirc.

Like Itachi’s statement is structured 100% the same as Mifune’s, but his is translated to lightning speed. There’s no context in the sentence through other words to indicate such, it’s purely a language thing. Same for Mifune, nothing in there to indicate whether or not it’s lightning or light, except currently people wanting to go with the LS translation.

So does anyone have a reason to say the translation contextually means light speed over lightning speed? That’s not “bUt SoMeOnE eLsE tRaNsLaTeD iT tO LS”.

If we take it to a vote and staff vote LS I’ll stop bringing this up, but no ones addressed my concerns over the intricacies/subtleties of going from JP to English.

Qliphoth said this:

"REMEMBER WHAT'S SAID: if you see 光速, it's called SPEED OF LIGHT.

This means, get ready to wank a lot of verses OVO."

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I can bring here a scan from the Databook that mentions that Katsuyu's acid is "impossible to dodge" if you wanted. And the most curious thing about Acid and Light Fang is that they both have the "impossible to dodge" in the description but in the example image, Naruto (Light Fang) and Manda (Acid) are dodging...

These statments have a figurative meaning

What? You mean the Part 1 Databook which states it launches it at unpredictable speeds?

 

[GTsek]

About Itachi's water bullets, if you take a look here, it was said that there is no translation of "lightning speed":

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3856188

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Qliphoth said this:

"REMEMBER WHAT'S SAID: if you see 光速, it's called SPEED OF LIGHT.

This means, get ready to wank a lot of verses OVO."

That’s the same kanji used in Itachi’s translated to lightning speed... if you scroll back up you will see a link that shows more examples of that kanji being used for lightning

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

About Itachi's water bullets, if you take a look here, it was said that there is no translation of "lightning speed":

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3856188

The official translation

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Qliphoth said this:

"REMEMBER WHAT'S SAID: if you see 光速, it's called SPEED OF LIGHT.

This means, get ready to wank a lot of verses OVO."

I think people are misunderstanding the concept of the scan I posted above.

It can mean "lightning-speed" in context.
Yes, it's still speed of light, but when put it in a figurative language or metaphorically structured sentence, it's translated as "lightning-speed" (hyperbolical). Or the hyperbolic variation of "lightspeed" in English.
It doesn't literally mean lightning-speed.

We're not trying to give the Kanji a new meaning, we're just stating that it's not a definitive answer, and it's purpose can change depending on the context.

Basically, the Kanji can be used just to classify very fast things, not necessarily Lightspeed. It's dependent on how the Databook is trying to convey information

 

[GTsek]

The official translation

What? are you saying there is an official translation? As far as I know, Viz didn't translate neither the 1st nor the 2nd Databook, there is an official translation in Portuguese and it mentions speed of light. And anyway, as far as I know, here on this Wiki the translations made in the translations thread are taken into account, even if there are official translations.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think people are misunderstanding the concept of the scan I posted above.

It can mean "lightning-speed" in context.
Yes, it's still speed of light, but when put it in a figurative language or metaphorically structured sentence, it's translated as "lightning-speed" (hyperbolical). Or the hyperbolic variation of "lightspeed" in English.
It doesn't literally mean lightning-speed.

We're not trying to give the Kanji a new meaning, we're just stating that it's not a definitive answer, and it's purpose can change depending on the context.

Basically, the Kanji can be used just to classify very fast things, not necessarily Lightspeed. It's dependent on how the Databook is trying to convey information

Yeah this is what I’m trying to convey maybe put better. I know the kanji literally means “speed of light”, but I’ve seen examples of it translated in different manners due to context.

So, if 光速 doesn’t inherently mean “literal LS” and can vary depending on context to just mean “super fast”, what’s our justification for taking it literally here? <- this is what I’d like to know.

 

[GTsek]

I think people are misunderstanding the concept of the scan I posted above.

It can mean "lightning-speed" in context.
Yes, it's still speed of light, but when put it in a figurative language or metaphorically structured sentence, it's translated as "lightning-speed" (hyperbolical). Or the hyperbolic variation of "lightspeed" in English.
It doesn't literally mean lightning-speed.

We're not trying to give the Kanji a new meaning, we're just stating that it's not a definitive answer, and it's purpose can change depending on the context.

Basically, the Kanji can be used just to classify very fast things, not necessarily Lightspeed. It's dependent on how the Databook is trying to convey information

As I said above, Qliphoth translations are taken seriously on this wiki as far as I know. And he says it's always "speed of light", and he clearly says that the statement is literal, not figurative. Anyway, I'll wait for him to position himself here, I (and many others) trust him and if he says something different than he said last time, then I'll agree.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

As I said above, Qliphoth translations are taken seriously on this wiki as far as I know. And he says it's always "speed of light", and he clearly says that the statement is literal, not figurative. Anyway, I'll wait for him to position himself here, I (and many others) trust him and if he says something different than he said last time, then I'll agree.

Look at the translations and then the highlighted kanji.

 

[GTsek]

Yeah this is what I’m trying to convey maybe put better. I know the kanji literally means “speed of light”, but I’ve seen examples of it translated in different manners due to context.

So, if 光速 doesn’t inherently mean “literal LS” and can vary depending on context to just mean “super fast”, what’s our justification for taking it literally here? <- this is what I’d like to know.

I think there are a lot of verses that have been upgraded with statements like that, and that's accepted here on the Wiki, why exactly with Naruto is it being questioned? Wouldn't it be better to create a thread about "Speed of Light declarations"? Because this affects many verses.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think there are a lot of verses that have been upgraded with statements like that, and that's accepted here on the Wiki, why exactly with Naruto is it being questioned? Wouldn't it be better to create a thread about "Speed of Light declarations"? Because this affects many verses.

1) idk how it’s being used with other verses, I operate on Bleach, Naruto, and occasionally One Piece threads
2) I’m asking precisely so I can determine how we treat the statement here
3) it’s pertinent to Naruto and specifically to this thread so it’s well within the lines of discussion imo. I’d rather discuss it here than say this thread goes through, a new thread for context comes up, then a new thread for this same topic has to be potentially made. It’s less hassle tackling it as it pertains to this topic

I’m not trying to find ways to keep an upgrade from happening i just want explanations lol. Like the vsbw translation people agree with the lightning speed Itachi translation yet it uses the kanji for speed of light. Mifune’s quote is structured the exact same, so I’m curious what makes one LS vs lightning speed. As of now I’m pretty sure it’s entirely a language context thing, in which case I want to know how we determine if it’s literal or not. This way in the future I can know how to proceed with similar statements.

 

[WrongIdea21]

why You Hesitated Qlipoth Translation? I Thought LS Issen Was Accepted, The Main Thing Here is For Samurai Fodder doing Light speed Or Nah

 

[GTsek]

1) idk how it’s being used with other verses, I operate on Bleach, Naruto, and occasionally One Piece threads
2) I’m asking precisely so I can determine how we treat the statement here
3) it’s pertinent to Naruto and specifically to this thread so it’s well within the lines of discussion imo. I’d rather discuss it here than say this thread goes through, a new thread for context comes up, then a new thread for this same topic has to be potentially made. It’s less hassle tackling it as it pertains to this topic

I’m not trying to find ways to keep an upgrade from happening i just want explanations lol. Like the vsbw translation people agree with the lightning speed Itachi translation yet it uses the kanji for speed of light. Mifune’s quote is structured the exact same, so I’m curious what makes one LS vs lightning speed. As of now I’m pretty sure it’s entirely a language context thing, in which case I want to know how we determine if it’s literal or not. This way in the future I can know how to proceed with similar statements.

Could you tell me where and when it was agreed that the translation of Itachi's technique is "Lightning Speed"? As far as I know, it is not accepted speed of light here because it is a hype text only.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Could you tell me where and when it was agreed that the translation of Itachi's technique is "Lightning Speed"? As far as I know, it is not accepted speed of light here because it is a hype text only.

Page 2-3 in this very thread, I bring up how it uses the same kanji, and I get shut down for it meaning lightning speed contextually

 

[Reio35]

Issen Move at Speed Of Light and Sasuke Could Easly perciving and reacted to those attack, but not With Raikage Movement like this, that Implying Raikage Move Faster Than what Issen Did.

The data book has Sasuke at lighting speed so it would be inconsistent to say hes LS for scaling to issen. I think this means issen is lighting speed.

Also minato is stated to be the fastest shinobi and he's only lighting speed

 

[Reio35]

Another thing with mifune is he scales to edo and live hanzo. Hanzo is relative to a young jiraya,tusanda and orochimaru. Hanzo also scales to a young nagato and so on and so fourth. So you might as well give all these characters LS while your at it.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I think there are a lot of verses that have been upgraded with statements like that, and that's accepted here on the Wiki, why exactly with Naruto is it being questioned? Wouldn't it be better to create a thread about "Speed of Light declarations"? Because this affects many verses.

"Why just Naruto?"
this has only been brought up now, that's why.
It's not a natural curve in speed to go to Lightspeed in this scenario too, so it's much more debatable.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Hanzo has never reacted to issen.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The data book has Sasuke at lighting speed so it would be inconsistent to say hes LS for scaling to issen. I think this means issen is lighting speed.

Titles are not statements.

Also minato is stated to be the fastest shinobi and he's only lighting speed

The same thing I said above, just louder.

 

[GTsek]

Page 2-3 in this very thread, I bring up how it uses the same kanji, and I get shut down for it meaning lightning speed contextually

"Lightning Speed" may just be a website error. Often "Lightning Speed" translates as "Light Speed" to my language when I use these sites. The image you sent is from a translation site, I think to "debunk" the Qliphoth translation you would need more than a single image from a site.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Also to show just how bad your argument is

Minato's statement it's for when he was a jonin and it's hype text. Unusable like Itachi's thing was determined to be.

Sasuke's thing was literally just for hebi Sasuke and it's the speed for the summoning of the technique, not his own speed.

Plus there's a translation out there that indicates it would more so be the return stroke of lightning, which is 1/3 the speed of light

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

"Lightning Speed" may just be a website error. Often "Lightning Speed" translates as "Light Speed" to my language when I use these sites. The image you sent is from a translation site, I think to "debunk" the Qliphoth translation you would need more than a single image from a site.

No no I’m not trying to debunk Qliphoth lol. Basically what I’m getting at is if 光速 can only ever mean “speed of light” then it’s worth re-evaluating Itachi’s statement (even if it’ll just get hit with outlier or hyperbole). As it got hit with the “it means lightning speed”, which if that’s outright false all the better.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Also minato is stated to be the fastest shinobi

Not anymore Since Kcm 1 Surpass him on speed but Minato Use Hiraisin Wich Is Teleportation Jutsu. A lot Of contradicted From Databook Wich We didn't use it.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"Lightning Speed" may just be a website error. Often "Lightning Speed" translates as "Light Speed" to my language when I use these sites. The image you sent is from a translation site, I think to "debunk" the Qliphoth translation you would need more than a single image from a site.

it's like you just ignored my explanation.
It's not an error, in English, a metaphorical use of that Kanji to describe something generically fast would be "lightning-fast", or "lightning speed",
It doesn't HAVE to be that either, it's not translating the Kanji to a wrongful meaning.

You can easily put "lightspeed" in that phrase above and it's still would sound hyperbolic, but the translation was made to highlight the usage of that Kanji in a figurative sentence, so they put it as "lightning-fast" or "lightning-speed", which still maintain the purpose, metaphorical meaning, and inform the hyperbolical sense of the phrase, so, it's correct. This is, while differentiating it from other uses of the term "lightspeed" previously mentioned.
If they just put it "lightspeed", it might have been interpretated as literal just like the examples above it.

 

[GTsek]

Anyway, this site trust on Qliphoth translations, discussing here whether is lightning or light is irrelevant and is only delaying this topic even further. Until a while ago it was almost unanimous that the technique is LS and we were just discussing about Samurai or just Mifune. The Outlier argument has already been mentioned, and now we are discussing the validity of the Qliphoth translation, unbelievable...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Bro, no one is discussing the validity of his translation, chill the hell out.

 

[GTsek]

No no I’m not trying to debunk Qliphoth lol. Basically what I’m getting at is if 光速 can only ever mean “speed of light” then it’s worth re-evaluating Itachi’s statement (even if it’ll just get hit with outlier or hyperbole). As it got hit with the “it means lightning speed”, which if that’s outright false all the better.

About Itachi's technique, it was already said in the translations topic that IT IS NOT LIGHTNING, IT IS LIGHT. And it wouldn't matter at all and doesn't need to be "re-evaluated" as we don't use Databook hype texts here.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

光速 always mean Speed of Light, we already aknowledged that.

We're just saying:

光速 is not necessarily literal. THAT'S IT.
That's I T.
We're not questioning his translation,
we're discussing interpretation based on that notion.
It's as simple as that.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

About Itachi's technique, it was already said in the translations topic that IT IS NOT LIGHTNING, IT IS LIGHT. And it wouldn't matter at all and doesn't need to be "re-evaluated" as we don't use Databook hype texts here.

Can you try putting into your head that we ARE ABSOLUTELY N O T saying that it means literal lightning?
Make an effort, for crying out loud.