Novel Kars vs Amane Shinomiya

[The_Smashor]

Because if Hoopa is in 6-B for low tier summons, then Kars is in 8-C for low tier stands.

Rules: Speed Equalized. Otherwise SBA.



Do you U N D E R S T A N D ?:
Idk if this guy has any memes I can put here:

Inconclusive:

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Lmao. Yeah I don't get why Hoopa has a spot.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

>Jojo vs Rakudai

Aw shit, here we go again...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Jojo vs Rakudai
Aw shit, here we go again...

And it is especially fun that it is:

>Jojo top tier vs Rakudai with passive hax

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Kars has underSTAND. Amane throws his CM and PM and Kars adapts, then slaps.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah that should be the case actually, seeing as understanding is 4D iirc.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Those 8-C Stands you gave Kars make him effectively immortal.

Plus Kars can adapt and evolve from Shino's hax so yeah.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I love that Iihiko and Medaka are considered NLF but novel Kars is completely fine lol.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The limit to his copy, and evolution is Low 2-C.

Iihiko and Medaka have no known limits.

That's the difference.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I love that Iihiko and Medaka are considered NLF but novel Kars is completely fine lol.

That's what it means to be a jojo. HAD had 2-A RO without justification for the longest time. xD

 

[The_Smashor]

You: JJBA can't counter passi-

Novel Kars:

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You: JJBA can't counter passi-
Novel Kars:

Ok I guess

 

[Huesito88]

That was 2-A passive

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That was 2-A passive

Passive 4D understanding vs 3D fate hax is better?

Besides he just said jojo can counter passives, no one said anything about potency

 

[Blackcurrant91]

What is Kars low 2-C adaption feat curiously?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

He copied Made in Heaven and made a more powerful version of it himself.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

That's ludicrously impressive lol.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Although i could get down to downgrading it to a simple 3D feat, but eh.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

MiH affects time on a universal scale tho?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

MiH affects time on a universal scale tho?

Yeah but with our standards now, that's just standard for time hax. Example now you don't need 4D power null, to nullify Jojo's time stop, even though it is universal in range, because we gave it universal range, but not potency.

And the low 2-C feat from MiH is not part of MiH's power. Rather it's the mechanics of the universe itself that it can reach an ending. Practically speaking, if there were more speed amping abilities like MiH all of them would be performing the low 2-C feat. Reseting the universe by getting to it's end, as jojo describes it anyone can do that if they can reach the end of the universe, so it's not really Low 2-C, MiH only helps reaching a low 2-C conclusion, but is not low 2-C himself.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Its not that weird. You dont need to actually have a Low 2-C potency to achieve a Low 2-C tier

GER's High 3-A is an example

 

[Sir_Ovens]

MiH still ends the universe with it's ability, so while not direct, it is still a Low 2-C ability

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well using his hax he can still reach a low 2-C destruction/creation, even if he's not the one doing that.

MiH can cause a Low 2-C feat, though copying MiH is not a low 2-C feat, because MiH isn't 4D.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

But he can copy the power of MiH, which is 4-D

 

[Ogbunabali]

And he can copy the power of Time Stop which is 4D, and the time reset from Bites the Dust which is also 4D.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But he can copy the power of MiH, which is 4-D

Again the power is not 4D. The end result is a 4D.

If he copies any random time amp, even if it's not MiH, he will be able to reach the 4D feat by virtue of how the universe works in Jojo. MiH can reach a 4D result, but it doesn't have 4D hax.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

King crimson confirmed 4-D?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And he can copy the power of Time Stop which is 4D, and the time reset from Bites the Dust which is also 4D.

They don't have the virtues of being 4D though. We treat them as just time hax rather than infinitely above 3D, as 4D should be.

Otherwise all time hax on the wiki would be 4D.

 

[Ogbunabali]

All time hax is 4D.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

King crimson confirmed 4-D?

Nah, 3D, since he specializes on time hax. GER who doesn't but still negged the universal hax is 4D.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

@Ogbu

^^^^

 

[Blackcurrant91]

There is a thread about why we shouldn't automatically consider it to be going on at the moment that is looking like it might go through.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

See, the thing is that Araki himself in an interview stated that time based abilities in JoJo work on a universal scale.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

All time hax is 4D.

Yes, technically. But we don't give all time hax the 4D benefits. I'll give you an example.

Sirzechs Lucifer doesn't have 4D resistance for resisting Gasper Vladi's time stop. Yes time stop is 4D by nature, but it is a 4D that's equal to 3D.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

See, the thing is that Araki himself in an interview stated that time based abilities in JoJo work on a universal scale.

We accepted that all time hax is universal unless proven otherwise, but we don't treat it as infinitely above 3D. So Kars can copy time related powers, but he cannot copy 4D EE for example.

 

[Genericstickman]

I'm still curious if Kars ever attempted to copy Beyond in the novel

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I'm still curious if Kars ever attempted to copy Beyond in the novel

5D Understanding when?

 

[Ogbunabali]

Yes, technically. But we don't give all time hax the 4D benefits. I'll give you an example.

Sirzechs Lucifer doesn't have 4D resistance for resisting Gasper Vladi's time stop. Yes time stop is 4D by nature, but it is a 4D that's equal to 3D.

Yes he gets resistance to Time Stop. I don't see the problem.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Regardless, the upper bound of Kars' adaptation is way above Shinomiya's paygrade.

The feats speak for themselves. 3D passives don't work on Kars.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Not arguing about this fight, im done with rakudai vs jojo. Im talking about in general.