Norrin's combat speed. What's up with that? It needs to be revised.

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

Why is Silver Surfer's combat speed idiotically tiered at "Massively Hypersonic"?

Silver Surfer has MFTL combat speed feats, moreover, Thor has MFTL speed feats, as well; so I don't see the comparison there.

 

[Reppuzan]

I think it's more a consistency thing.

See our Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.

 

[Antvasima]

And this page as well: Marvel Character Statistics Scaling

Basically, Marvel does not make any coherent sense whatsoever, which makes it a consistent headache for us, as the scaling ends up badly, no matter which approach that we use.

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

Obviously we're not going to use Tom Breevort's word on a matter correlating to Marvel's characters. He's just an editor, the people whose words we should consider legitimately are the writers own; who have constructed the entirety of Marvel's lore. Surfer has multiple MFTL combat speed feats, the ridiculous utterance of the "Chief Editor" clearly holds no real worth here.

And "inconsistency" being associated with Surfer's MFTL combat is ludicrious. Surfer's daily job encompasses travelling around the Marvel Omniverse at MFTL speeds and combating and reacting to objects/characters, as well.

So, to say Surfer's combat speed isn't at least light speed is about as dumb as me saying people like Galactus aren't at least Solar System level.

 

[Cropfist]

If he has MFTL+ combat feats then post them.

 

[Gemmysaur]

His profile states he's MHS by scaling and FTL to FTL+ by feats and Thor scaling. He also has MFTL+ flight.

I don't see why you got your panties in a bunch.

Care to show some of these MFTL combat speed feets though? That would upgrade their high-end speed, but the scaling speed (MHS) stays.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

In all honesty I agree with you on the Tom B part, but could you post the MFTL speed feats plz?

 

[Antvasima]

Tom has his faults. He has a tendency to use the term "omnipotent" for any reasonably powerful cosmic character, for example, and you can check my Tumblr page for a major disagreement that I had with him.

However, when it comes to character statistics, he is the one who actually decides them, and he also officially keeps track of Marvel's continuity for the company.

Hence, his authority exceeds that of a writer, and both he and the handbooks have clearly made explicit statements that flight speed and combat speed are kept separate for Marvel Comics characters.

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

Norrin blitzing Nova.


Nova #13, Norrin again blitzes Nova.


Nova #14, Norrin does it yet again.


Norrin can also keep up and react to the Runner, who I think needs no introduction on his speed.





Ironically, the Surfer loses the above fight not because the Runner demonstrated superior combat speed, but he over powered him with his own strength. It is entirely noteworthy, however that the Surfer was surprised by the Runner's presence in the first panel. The Surfer can sense energy signatures from light years away (the Runner's power comes from the power primordial). The Runner surprised him before he is able to react to this fact.

 

[Antvasima]

The Runner images are too small to see clearly when I click the links. However, we probably have to consider that as a Plot Induced Stupidity outlier, as Runner himself is listed as having vastly higher movement speed than the Surfer in the Master Edition handbook, even though they are in the same flight speed category.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'll try to expand them for ya.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just a heads up. While I can make them bigger, they'll be kinda blurry.

 

[Antvasima]

That was my problem as well, but I read the issue long ago. Runner completely blitzed Thanos though, and the Surfer has never been able to remotely do that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's important. Iirc, Surfer was an inconvenience to Thanos, and not a threat, correct?

 

[Antvasima]

He has been completely stomped by Thanos. Power-scaling is extremely hard to apply for Marvel though, as all of the characters are consistently scaled down to roughly the same level as their opponents.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Was The Runner ever stated to have trouble with Thanos? That could be a deciding factor. If it weren't for Brevoort's statement, and the fact that there's a difference between travel/flight/combat speed in Marvel, and that it's Marvel, I would undoubtedly agree with this, but the fact is, there is all 3 of those things. The Runner could be a table-turner though.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it was a single incident, and can probably be considered an outlier. Thanos was completely helpless before The Runner, until the latter stood still to gloat, so Thanos got the chance to use an infinity gem.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In that case, they probably shouldn't scale to The Runner.

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

What the?.....

Why would it be disregarded as "P.I,S", exactly? Surfer temporarily matches Runner's speed. And let's not act like Surfer doing that is utterly unreasonable. Surfer has also been capable of outracing and reacting to Aeigis and Tenerbous, who are both Galactus-level Proemial Gods.

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

It doesn't count as P.I.S unless the character is doing something blatantly out of their character tier, otherwise Silver Samurai would easily be Planet+ doing to being capable of handling Mjolnir for a while.

 

[Antvasima]

The Surfer is regularly matched in speed by much slower beings. According to Marvel, and his general showings, he is officially much slower physically than he is in terms of flight speed. We need actual calculated feats of his own to scale from.

 

[Antvasima]

Please read the following pages:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Power-scaling_Rules_for_Marvel_and_DC_Comics

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Character_Statistics_Scaling

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Most of Surfer's combat speed showings are pretty poor, despite having good reaction time.

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

Surfer being regularly matched by those slower beings is evidently P.I.S.

"According to Marvel". Surely Marvel must've referenced that, right?

And are all the combat speed feats I listed for Surfer fodder? Obviously, not; all the beings I've shown Surfer against are MFTL.

 

[LordXcano]

Law please calm down. Also your first 3 scans are the same blitzing scene, and the rest are a scene with the Runner. In all that's 2 speed feats.

However if you can find some that aren't scaling-based I'll be happy to try and calculate them for you.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Marvel is a complete mess, since all of the characters are constantly adjusted in speed and power to roughly match their opponents, both upwards and downwards. However, feats that are possible to calculate are fine.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Law please calm down. Also your first 3 scans are the same blitzing scene, and the rest are a scene with the Runner. In all that's 2 speed feats.
However if you can find some that aren't scaling-based I'll be happy to try and calculate them for you.

I have a few although I don't know if they qualify combat speed. However it involves reaction time without a doubt

 

[Lawbringer_the_3rd]

What do you mean "calm down"? I was ever cool about about the situation and reasonably debated it.

Blitzing Nova and and keeping up with The Runner are highly impressive, actually.

And if you wanted more speed feats, I'll be happy to supply them for you.

 

[Antvasima]

Preferably speed feats that are not dependent on extremely inconsistent power-scaling.