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Normal Kirby upgrade (final try)

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@Saikou You've ignored pretty much all of my points. In favor of just a "you can also apply your logic to upgrade many characters to much higher level" despite you not elaborating at all on that like I did. And you're special pleading saying that logic which is unreasonable for determining the size of a universe is now completely logical when determining the size of a "dimension."

And if you're saying my example has to assume Mario's entire stage is the galaxy, then your case once again assumes

  • That these "poorly drawn circles" are not galaxies despite that they look just like one and do not look at all like star clusters or nebulas. Which in that case I'll be downgrading pretty much any series that shows one or more galaxies. Like discarding all those galaxies we see with Dragon Ball in favor of 4 galaxy model. Or saying that Mario's "galaxies" are just star clusters.
  • That everything within this pocket dimension is imaginary and illusionary. To which there is no evidence of. Which in that case I will again be downgrading every universe and Tier 4 and above feat. Cause how can we know those stars destroyed were real and star sized? How can we know the snake in this cowboy's boot is a real snake that's actually the length of a real life boot?
 
I'm wrong then. Regardless, doesn't stop the place from being an interdimensional and Magolor didn't create it, given Doomers lived there and GK has access there, giving credence to it being its namesake. Don't know who the burden of proof is on.
 
My more or less point is that not assuming a pocket dimension being MSS based on the presence of stars or anything else like that isn't usually considered legitimate. There is a difference between a universe, which is usually universe sized, and aesthetics on the background of a dimension. Also Mario's galaxies are quite undeniably galaxies, unlike Kirby's.
 
Once again, why is using the presence of stars in the background to determine that an area has to be that size not reasonable? So if a character creates a building, we can see a bunch of plants in that building in the background, then we can't safely say this building is bigger than a plant? Why is it more reasonable to assume that all these stars are illusionary and fake despite nothing suggesting that?

Why is it now that you're saying how fiction's universes are "usually universe sized" means it's reasonable to assume a universe is the size of our own unless otherwise shown, yet the idea that the word "dimension" usually refers to a universe is not?

And why not use your method of demanding all this evidence that each fictional universe is the size of our own? Assuming what are clearly galaxies to be star clusters or nebulas even though they look nothing like them and almost just like a galaxy. And assuming that what we can clearly see within this dimension is not real.

Also the only thing you have supporting Mario's galaxies being real galaxies is the fact they explicitly show galaxies within the background. Which again, by using your arguments I can just deny them on the grounds that "they're in the background," "they're just poorly drawn circles," "they're star clusters and nebulas" or that "those galaxies aren't real."

These justifications for downgrading this do not at all sound reasonable when applying them to other series, yet you're insisting that this is good logic for Kirby, despite providing no reasoning as to why that's the case.

Your main arguments can be applied to drastically lowball almost every Tier 3 verse. And unless you explain why this is okay with Kirby and not Mario, DB, etc. then there's no further point discussing this. And it should be left to other staff members to weigh in on what they think is best.
 
So, countless for, 2 against. One gave absolutely no reason way one didn't agree.
 
Just a quick correction, it was Kamiya who said that for DMC it was a universe on his Twitter, not Kojima (He made Metal Gear Solid, not Devil May Cry).

I have no say on the current matter though. Which is odd since I'm a Kirby fan and I haven't looked too deep into the whole "Another Dimension is a Universe" stuff.
 
I think that for the above-mentioned Kirby case, there appears to be sufficient evidence to consider this a universe, along with consistency with other feats of this level.

However, I definitely do not think that we can automatically assume every single pocket-universe within fiction to be universe-sized, if there is little indication of this, or it would severely contradict the othervise displayed power levels, as is the case with Kaguya of Naruto, or the Knights of the Round in Final Fantasy VII.
 
Yes. I think that the upgrades seem reasonable, but think that we have to evaluate these types of issues on a case-by-case basis.
 
Agreed. Fully, fully agreed. So, am I allowed to make the changes? It affects the main cast and every final boss. Though would it be "At least 3-B", "At least 3-B, possibly 3-A" or "At least 3-B, likely 3-A"
 
Let's wait for more input before we decide which of your alternatives that is preferable.
 
I agree on the input thing.

And any of Cal's suggestions are fine with me really.
 
Kirby normally fights at of the game threats that were going to destroy the galaxies to the universe, this happened several times, so i agree.
 
So, should we use "At least 3-B", "At least 3-B. Possibly 3-A", or "At least 3-B. Likely 3-A"?
 
@Ant If I may respond, I personally think you should use "At least 3-B. Possibly 3-A" because that is what you have Magolor rated at. You could do "At least 3-B. Likely 3-A" but I think "At least 3-B. Possibly 3-A" would be your safest bet.
 
I'd go with likely. Dark Mind's feat is solid 3-A and GK's is far more likely to be 3-A than 3-B.
 
I too think At least 3-B, likely 3-A seems like the best course of action.
 
As of the above, that's likely the best course of action to take. I didn't think stamping 3-A would work for here given the above and earlier arguments, but this can work finely if anything.
 
So, everyone agrees? Can someone unlock Kirby and Magolor so I can edit them and everyone else who scales?
 
It actually is since I agree with this upgrade and I'm pointing out discussions that previously happened because of this.
 
No it isn't Your agreement is on topic. But this isn't about Mario or Sonic. This is a Kirby thread.
 
You missed the point I'm making since this is related to Kirby but I rather not argue so, I'll just remove the comment.
 
Not trying to be rude, but we should try to handle one thing at a time so that we don't lose focus on the thread as a whole.
 
I agree about not losing focus on the topic at hand.

Is anybody interested in helping Howard with temporarily unlocking the necessary pages?
 
@Ant once Cal gets back online I'll unlock the pages for him.
 
Okay. Thanks.
 
@Cal sorry for the late response. Tell me which profiles need an unlocking on my wall.
 
Reopening this. Even though I don't really feel like weighing in on the matter after its been resolved, there's been some misinformation in this thread that needs to be addressed.

Points 1, 2, and 3 are literally from the same game, and powerscaling from the same outlier. That is not three separate instances.

For point 4, pushing back a small portion of something gradually consuming the universe is not 3-B. Not for such a small, localized area.

For point 5, Seventopia is not a universe. Nothing has ever said it's a universe. It's a series of planets and their general surrounding area, iirc.

Point 6, Dark Mind's influence was never shown to stretch beyond planetary, and even then, taking over an alternate universe is nowhere near the same as destroying one.

Point 7 is wrong on so many levels I shouldn't even need to point it out.
 
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